Imus be an idiot . . .

[hgc]

Sometimes racial groups are crazy like that - they'll put up with someone of their own race/culture using names or words that someone from a different culture using those words will be seen as racist.

I can call almost anyone in my family a dumb spic and they'll likely laugh it off, but if Imus walks up and calls them that, he'll walk away bloody. When Imus is a Black man, then maybe he can use the words nappy-headed ho's in jest.

If it comes from within the group, it's safe. It has the complete opposite effect as when an outsider says it -- for bonding on a common identity as opposed to becoming defensive against an attack on your identity.

 

[BPSCG]

Start a vote count of a tight perm being considered nappy hair in the real world, despite your dictionary posting. You will find yourself outvoted one to infinity.

Well, I don't think so, unless you think there's an infinity number of people on the planet.

But, yeah, I think the only time I've ever seen "nappy" refer to anything other than black people's hair is here. Forget it, Dustin; even if you are technically correct - and I don't think you are - I doubt anyone has ever used the word to refer to anyone who isn't negroid.

My question is why it's considered racist. Is it racist if someone says some white trailer park woman has "stringy" hair? Insulting, sure, but racist? Please.

 

[Mephisto]

If it comes from within the group, it's safe. It has the complete opposite effect as when an outsider says it -- for bonding on a common identity as opposed to becoming defensive against an attack on your identity.

You're absolutely right, but as we've seen over and over personalities like Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, Lenny Bruce, Bill Hicks and others CAN make a successful racial joke. They're making (or made) us laugh at ourselves and at the stereotypes that we'd normally find repulsive. People like Michael Richards and Don Imus AREN'T funny when they spew their "jokes," especially considering there is no punchline.

 

[Thunder]

I mean, for instance, it seems like the "n" word is being literally kept alive not by white racists, but by blacks themselves. I live in NYC and the word is used like "dude" or "fella" or "guy". I can count on my two hands the number of times I have heard that word used why a white person in NYC. But if I had a nickle for every time I heard a black person say it, I'd be a rich man.

I understand that amoung your own, its sorta/kinda/maybe ok to use derogatory language. But I still think if the word was so damn offensive, in shouldn't be uttered by anyone.

I think an unspoken topic is the issue of self-hatred and the use of the "n" word amoung blacks.

 

[Mephisto]

I mean, for instance, it seems like the "n" word is being literally kept alive not by white racists, but by blacks themselves. I live in NYC and the word is used like "dude" or "fella" or "guy". I can count on my two hands the number of times I have heard that word used why a white person in NYC. But if I had a nickle for every time I heard a black person say it, I'd be a rich man.

I understand that amoung your own, its sorta/kinda/maybe ok to use derogatory language. But I still think if the word was so damn offensive, in shouldn't be uttered by anyone.

I think an unspoken topic is the issue of self-hatred and the use of the "n" word amoung blacks.

I would agree with you and so would African-American author, M. Garlinda Burton. This is an excellent book and it's a shame that the VERY FIRST reviewer was obviously a racist.

The other reviews are fairly helpful though.

http://www.amazon.com/Never-Say-******-Again-Antiracism/dp/155523626X

I would recommend it especially to Dustin, but also to anyone who doesn't think "nappy-haired" is a racial slur.

 

[Phillybee]

I don't consider 'nappy' to be an insult. I've heard it quite a lot. I wonder what these folks think:

http://www.nappyhairaffair.com/

"But A Nappy Hair Affair (ANHA) is about so much more than hair. It is about reclaiming and respecting our culture. We have been conditioned to hate one of our most unique characteristics-our hair in its most natural state. We have been conditioned to accept European standards of beauty and to reject our own. ANHA exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent. We do it through support, affirmation and education."

 

[TheJim]

What the hell? Making a REFERENCE TO A MOVIE is not racist!!!

You're totally ignoring the context of the discussion. I could easily take a word out of something you've posted in the past and use that single word and say "Hey, Slingblade is racist!". What you're doing is taking a single word out of an entire discussion and labeling it racist. That's simply ignorant.

Here is why it was a racist comment because it came from a racist. As much as a I disagree with your analysis that it was not racist. I will grant you that these specific phrases could be seen as non racist and just offensive if say a Keith Oberman or Tucker Carlson said them. But, it was a man with a history of racist and sexist comments that made them so his words need to be judged in that context.

 

[Mephisto]

I don't consider 'nappy' to be an insult. I've heard it quite a lot. I wonder what these folks think:

http://www.nappyhairaffair.com/

"But A Nappy Hair Affair (ANHA) is about so much more than hair. It is about reclaiming and respecting our culture. We have been conditioned to hate one of our most unique characteristics-our hair in its most natural state. We have been conditioned to accept European standards of beauty and to reject our own. ANHA exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent. We do it through support, affirmation and education."

The woman who owns this salon was interviewed on Paula Zahn (I think it was Paula Zahn I saw it on) and she was trying to make a positive statement from a negative one. Still, it's an African-American woman using the word, and she states that her salon; "exists to cause a shift in such negative mindsets and promote a positive image of people of African descent." Therefore, she obviously knows of the negative connotations and would like to change them, at least among her African-American customers.

 

[Mephisto]

Here is why it was a racist comment because it came from a racist. As much as a I disagree with your analysis that it was not racist. I will grant you that these specific phrases could be seen as non racist and just offensive if say a Keith Oberman or Tucker Carlson said them. But, it was a man with a history of racist and sexist comments that made them so his words need to be judged in that context.

I agree Mr. TheJim - and would add that there is no way in Hell that Imus can claim he's NOT a racist.

(edited to add) Welcome to the forums.

 

[slingblade]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nappy

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Kinky


As far as my "mininformed" opinions go...You might try actually opening a book for once. It helps. Trust me.

Odd. Neither of those definitions came from your opening a book.....

Keep on, Dustin. I am far more widely and better read than you, child. What you said is not an insult to me. It is, rather, as laughable as everything else you keep saying.

Edited to remove personal attack. Slingblade, remember that your membership agreement requires you to be civil to other members of the forum.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[Lonewulf]

Sometimes racial groups are crazy like that - they'll put up with someone of their own race/culture using names or words that someone from a different culture using those words will be seen as racist.

I can call almost anyone in my family a dumb spic and they'll likely laugh it off, but if Imus walks up and calls them that, he'll walk away bloody. When Imus is a Black man, then maybe he can use the words nappy-headed ho's in jest.

I don't see why people see such a contradiction.

If I insult you based on your skin tone, and I share that skin tone, at the worst I'm participating in self-mockery. There's an obvious reason that this is not considered racist, and anyone with half a brain can see it. Hell, I sat with an Irish friend of mine that was white as can be, and was raised in a black neighborhood, and worked with a lot of Mexicans and spanish speakers at construction here in Corpus. He once said, at random, completely out of the blue: "I hate white people."

Was I insulted? Hell no. Why the hell should I be?

If I'm white and you're black, and I call you a "n***a", though, that's totally a different scenario, unless I've somehow identified myself to you as a friend, and that I mean it in jest.

Sometimes a white man and a black man can sit together in harmony calling each other "*****" and "honky" all day long and not get insulted (though they might "act" insulted and insult back), but they're friends. They know it's not meant as an insult, and they know the person involved.

If a white man talked about, "All them n***as" on a hateful radio show, or said it in conversation or the like, then the word fundamentally changes meaning as the context changes. Hell, if a Native American calls about "them n***as", I would take it as an insult to black people, just like if he called white people "trash", I'd take it as an insult to white people.

This is perfectly logical. I don't see why people don't realize this very simple fact.

 

[jman19999]

What a phony setup this whole story is.

Let's get a few things out of the way first. I don't listen to Imus; the few times I've heard him, I've found him to be annoyingly self-congratulatory and gratuitously insulting. But he seems to reserve his venom for public figures, people whose careers put them in the line of fire. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't choose to listen.

This time is different. The girls on the Rutgers basketball team have done nothing more public than to play very good basketball. Calling them "nappy-headed ho's" stepped over the line. Not because it's racist, but because it's gratuitous. He should apologize to them, personally. Last I heard, he asked to do just that, but they don't want to see him, preferring, I guess, their own self-righteous anger.

But as far as everyone else being offended, I think a lot of people need to get over themselves. Rap is a sewer of vile language glorifying the beating, raping, even killing of black "bitches" and "ho's." This has been going on for years.

Yet today, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Barack Obama are upset because Imus said "nappy-haired ho's." Where has their outrage been all these years over rap lyrics? Why doesn't Sharpton picket the record labels that produce this garbage? Why doesn't he call for boycotts of the "artists" involved? Why doesn't he demand a public apology every time some rapper goes off about "slappin' the bitch"?

The hypocrisy here stinks. Black men can deliberately, with malice aforethought, say the vilest things about black women, and nobody troubles himself to even shrug a shoulder. But a white guy allows some ugly words to get to his tongue while the judgment center of his brain is momentarily stuck in neutral, and he must be driven from polite society. Whatever qualifies as "polite society" these days.

Spare me the moral indignation until you can show that your outrage is not simple hypocritical moral posturing.

This is very interesting. I agree with this statement. Why can African-American say and produce these kinds of offenses within their own cultures, but if a White-person does it against an African-American or other ethnic group it's considered racist?

Racist remarks are racist remarks and need to have appropriate action taken against them regardless of the person who says them. It appears that minority ethnic groups want to have it both ways. I believe that rap music often conjures up very racist and violent images. Is this form of music so embedded in African-American culture that the leaders of this culture must condone it? Something doesn't seem right here.

In my view, I believe that what Mr. Imus did was over the line. While I believe in free speech, you can't demoralize someone's character like that in public. However, while the initial two-week suspension was appropriate, I don't think he should have lost his job over this. He did apologize and do his best to make amends. Many media people have said far worse than what Mr. Imus did with no reprimand at all and are still in broadcasting. Look at people like real shock jocks like radio political host Michael Savage. Yes, his MSNBC show was dropped because he made some very discriminating remarks about homosexuality. But he was always looking to get into piss-fights with any liberal supporters because he just hated them SOOO much. His venomous attitude toward anyone who disagreed with him turned me off completely. However, he had some interesting things to say, but couldn't control his temper.

I think the things that Michael Savage has said and done to his listeners who disagree with him are far worse than this one thing that Don Imus has done. It's gotten out of control.

Jeff

 

[steverino]

I think the things that Michael Savage has said and done to his listeners who disagree with him are far worse than this one thing that Don Imus has done. It's gotten out of control.

Jeff

One difference. When someone phones into Savage's show, the caller knows it may be trouble, and has made a tacit agreement with the talk show host that something insulting may be said. The basketball players had no such arrangement with Imus.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I didn't say that Imus used the N-word - try reading what I wrote.

So, I'm assuming that since you've added your surname that you're Jewish? How would you feel if I quoted some German character dialogue from Schindler's List regarding Jews to refer to your family? What if I were to use names from an anti-Semitic pamphlet to describe your sister? Is that fair, or does the excuse for racism only apply to films? What about cartoons, or literature, or Nazi propaganda movies? Where do you personally draw the line?

I'm not Jewish (To my knowledge, many of my family are catholic) and I wouldn't care even if I were. I don't get offended by such nonsense.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

It doesn't matter how many dictionary definitions you link to, that perm is not nappy hair, it never will be and anyone not cranial-rectally engaged knows it.

I've proven it is based on the dictionary definition. What proof do you have that it isn't? None.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Well, I don't think so, unless you think there's an infinity number of people on the planet.

But, yeah, I think the only time I've ever seen "nappy" refer to anything other than black people's hair is here. Forget it, Dustin; even if you are technically correct - and I don't think you are - I doubt anyone has ever used the word to refer to anyone who isn't negroid.

Wrong.

Google "Nappy hair". It's true that you'll find mostly african american pictures but if you look hard enough you'll find pictures of "Perms" from the 1970's as well as pictures of khalid shaikh mohammed.

I even found this. Other people pointing out Imus' nappy hair.

Most definitions of "nappy" that I have found agree that the term is used almost exclusively to describe hair that tightly coiled or curled and unkempt. Almost undoubtedly that does describe some of the black girls on that team. It is beyond a shadow of a doubt, however, that nappy headed describes Don Imus to a tee. I mean, just look at the guy. Talk about your irony, or your potbelly calling the kettle black. Don Imus' hair almost makes that fright wig that Phil Spector wore in court last year look dainty. Yeah, that nappy haired ho Don Imus has some kind of nerve insulting someone based on their hair.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/208064/don_imus_calls_black_bball_players.html

My question is why it's considered racist. Is it racist if someone says some white trailer park woman has "stringy" hair? Insulting, sure, but racist? Please.

I agree. Pointing out a FACT isn't stereotypical or racist. The people on the team DID have nappy hair.

 

[hgc]

I've proven it is based on the dictionary definition. What proof do you have that it isn't? None.

Dude, no matter how you slice it, Imus' perm is not nappy hair. No amount of pointing to a dictionary definition that says "tight curls" will change that. Perm is not nappy hair. Why do you keep digging? You're not just being young and stupid here, as usual, but you're veering into Shanian levels of denial.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Here is why it was a racist comment because it came from a racist. As much as a I disagree with your analysis that it was not racist. I will grant you that these specific phrases could be seen as non racist and just offensive if say a Keith Oberman or Tucker Carlson said them. But, it was a man with a history of racist and sexist comments that made them so his words need to be judged in that context.

He isn't racist. He has done more for African Americans(and all other races) than you could ever dream of doing with his cancer ranch and donation drives etc.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Dude, no matter how you slice it, Imus' perm is not nappy hair. No amount of pointing to a dictionary definition that says "tight curls" will change that. Perm is not nappy hair. Why do you keep digging? You're not just being young and stupid here, as usual, but you're veering into Shanian levels of denial.

By definition it is. "Tight curls" is a perm. Same difference. Nappy hair. Period. Get over it.

 

[The Painter]

Does anyone remember Hillary Clintons racist attempt at humor?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3890946

ST. LOUIS - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton apologized for joking that Mahatma Gandhi used to run a gas station in St. Louis, saying it was “a lame attempt at humor."

The New York Democrat made the remark at a fund-raiser Saturday. During an event here for Senate candidate Nancy Farmer, Clinton introduced a quote from Gandhi by saying, “He ran a gas station down in St. Louis.”

She seems to have been forgiven. Why not Imus? Both were just "a lame attempt at humor". Of the 2 people, I'd say Hillary has more clout than Imus.