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Moon Hoax conspiracy

I imagine it's one of those random "sometimes" things. Considering how many photos the astronauts took, and how few have been released, I imagine it's possible some were indeed rejected due to distortions caused by radiation.

-Gumboot
my apollo 14 collection is 623 images, most are duplicates (presuably to ensure they got proper framing) others are poorly framed, out of focus, or ruined by lens flares, naturally these werent published in any magazines

just an aside, heres something quoted by ER:

(Let’s not even get into the fact that the cameras were strapped onto the astronaut’s chests and they had no idea what they were photographing – there was no viewfinder).
 
Eight pages, folks. How many pages does the average troll need to consume? Bear in mind that this is an unladen African troll.

C'mon, this is one thread I may actually be able to contribute a little something to. And I think ER's about to experience something of a breakthrough, and admit (even if only internally) that we in fact did go to the moon, if only via unmanned craft. Besides, as Default says, this is a refreshing break from 9/11, which is always depressing even when you know you're 100% right.
 
Besides, as Default says, this is a refreshing break from 9/11, which is always depressing even when you know you're 100% right.

Mostly its refreshing because you aren't watching dozens of self-rightous smugheads poopingon the graves of 3,000 people.

Lack of death makes things wee bit lighter.
 
i cant say for certain, but i would gather moisture was a big factor here.

Actually I've read that Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth. Although it's certainly possible that fine ice particles could have blown into the mechanisms and melted when warmed and then refrozen causing jamming problems. But the most likely answer, I think, still has to do with ERich's lack of understanding of thermodynamics. In a vacuum the cameras would have cooled very slowly, In the freezing air of Antarctica the cameras would have cooled very rapidly. ERich fails to understand that cold air in not equivalent to vacuum.
 
Well the thing is, regardless of your angle, 9/11 is still about mass murder. That's depressing in any language.

In contrast the moon hoax is at worst a naughty government and at best a pinnacle of human achievement.

-Gumboot
 
Actually I've read that Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth.


Yup, THE driest. Zero precipitation. Even the Sahara Desert got snow once, but not Antarctica. (weird huh, no snow in Antarctica... go figure...)

-Gumboot
 
Mostly its refreshing because you aren't watching dozens of self-rightous smugheads poopingon the graves of 3,000 people.

Lack of death makes things wee bit lighter.

I agree, mostly. But they're still pooping on the graves of the Apollo astronauts who have died and on the courage and heroism of everyone in the program.
 
Well the thing is, regardless of your angle, 9/11 is still about mass murder. That's depressing in any language.

In contrast the moon hoax is at worst a naughty government and at best a pinnacle of human achievement.

-Gumboot

Well, when you put it that way...

Bring on the Moon Kooks!
 
Actually I've read that Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth. Although it's certainly possible that fine ice particles could have blown into the mechanisms and melted when warmed and then refrozen causing jamming problems. But the most likely answer, I think, still has to do with ERich's lack of understanding of thermodynamics. In a vacuum the cameras would have cooled very slowly, In the freezing air of Antarctica the cameras would have cooled very rapidly. ERich fails to understand that cold air in not equivalent to vacuum.
antartica has some of the lowest precipitation levels (interior gets less than the sahara in fact) however it isnt really the same as being the "driest" since it doesnt evaporate, so there is still snow and ice all over

but as i said i wasnt certain, thermodynamics could certainly be the main factor as well
 
Right, well I see while I was writing, there are more "issues" so let us continue.

Moonrock could have been collected by an unmanned craft, or were meteorites.

Let's start with the unmanned craft. Where are the plans for such a craft? How were they launched or landed with no-one seeing them? Where did the budget come from to pay for these secret missions? All big problems. Lets add more. The rocks were specifically selected, the Astronauts had geology training to make sure that what they brought back was material that the geologists wanted, not a bunch of random rocks like that Soviets ended up with. In fact in some cases during the 'J' missions, the geologist on Earth would point out a rock they wanted when they saw it on the TV and get the Astronauts to collect that rock for them. Add to that that there are nearly 380 kg of Apollo samples including 8 foot long core samples, soil cores, soil scoops, rock chips and whole rocks. What sort of unmanned probe has the diversity to collect that range of samples, and if it existed in 1969, why haven't we been using it on Mars since then, why have the unmanned probes we use today gone backwards from these theoretical ones? Note here that the Soviets had three successful returns and achieved very little but a random sample of small rocks and dust, and a three foot core. How did the US achieve so much more?

Okay, so how about using lunarites? Well, here a problem. In 1969 they didn't know that lunarites existed. The first one wasn't found until ten years after Apollo 11, in 1979, and the first to be identified as from the moon wasn't until two years later in 1981. Add to that that lunarites have a fusion crust from passage through the Earth's atmosphere, weathering, micro-fissures from their passage through the atmosphere and other sides of being a meteor. To a geologist a rock is a novel. They can tell you its entire life history, from when it was formed, to when it was knocked off the moon to when it landed on Earth. When that is the sort of knowledge you are trying to fool, how do you manage it?

There is another problem though. In the 1990's a probe was sent to the moon and surveyed the minerals. It was then discovered that there is a portion of the moon that has high in a low radioactive form of potassium. Ironically, this is the exact area that the Apollo missions landed, and as such their samples show high amounts of the substances located in that area. Most of the Lunarites we have found are not from that area though, they are from all over the moon. How could NASA have known that?

So as you see, while they might sound good to start with, there are some very serious problems with either of these suggestions.

For more on Lunar Meteorites, see this page

Film and Radiation.

There is very little radioactivity on the moon itself. There is some natural from the soil (as mentioned above), some from Cosmic Radiation, and a little from a reaction with the soil and cosmic radiation. Over all, the amount of radioactivity on the moon is considered unlikely to be harmful for a trip of less than 90 days (the longest the astronauts were there was 3.) Since the film was in a metal canister, it was shielded from most of the effects, though if you look through the photos you will find that a number do display signs of cosmic rays having hit the film, however cosmic rays are pretty rare things.

VA Belts Revisited.

So, back to the VA Belts. The film was inside the Capsule, which if you recall I pointed out had more than adequate shielding due to the insulation matting and aluminium plating. They were also inside their own metal canisters, which is more shielding. The claims of needing vast amounts of lead are rubbish. They come from a study on Interstellar space travel where the author stated that any generational space ship travelling between the stars would require the equivalent of six-feet of lead. (note he didn't say they had to have six-feet of lead, just the equivalent.) But this is for a ship that people would live an entire lifetime on, not one on which they would spend 10 days.

There is also the claim that the Soviets believed that you needed six-feet of lead. Not true. In fact we can look at their own Lunar Craft. Zond 5 sent a payload of frogs worms and other living creatures in a cis-lunar flight, returning them to earth alive. The Soviet LOK (there version of the CM) was nothing more than a standard Soyuz, slightly modified in shape, with the removal of the solar panels and the addition of fuel cells. Where was their six feet of lead? If they had virtually the same protection as the Apollo craft for their planned missions, why was NASA wrong? (I'm going to quickly note it here that the Soviet Lunar missions failed because they couldn't get the first stage of their heavy lifter to work, the rest of the space craft did.)

Finally, what about the man that knew the Belts better than anyone else, Dr Van Allen. Though an opponent to manned space travel, believing that (for his science) unmanned was faster and cheaper, he categorically refuted any claims of the Van Allen Belts being a danger to manned space travel. This is the guy that found then and who had studied them for 10 years before Apollo 8 passed through them.

Add to that that Gemini spent time in the belts, the ISS spends time in the belts and the Space Shuttle has spent time in the belts, all longer than the two hours that Apollo was exposed to them. How can you claim that the Belts can't be travelled? Are you claiming greater knowledge that Dr James Van Allen himself? The world's leading authority on the belts, a man who devoted much of his life to their study says it was possible, what proof do you have that he was wrong?
 
antartica has some of the lowest precipitation levels (interior gets less than the sahara in fact) however it isnt really the same as being the "driest" since it doesnt evaporate, so there is still snow and ice all over

but as i said i wasnt certain, thermodynamics could certainly be the main factor as well



There's no snow in Antarctica. Only ice. Ice isn't moisture.

-Gumboot
 
There's no snow in Antarctica. Only ice. Ice isn't moisture.

-Gumboot
i read its get 2-3 inches of precipitation a year, plus in sure comethign could get kicked up in high winds, enouigh to seize a camera

but you live closer to antartica than i, so ill take your word, lol
 
Camera and the cold (or heat)

When Actor Michael Plain’s crew filmed at the South Pole, the exterior temperature was about -22 F. Michael Plain stated that the Hasselblad cameras were seizing up as a result of the cold. If the Hasselblad seized up at -22 F, how would it work on the moon in temperatures more than 6x as cold?

Here's the problem, the Antarctic has air. Air, while not wonderful at it (heat up your oven to 300°C and then stick your hand inside it without touching any of the metal bits), conducts heat, that means that there is a temperature involved in the air. If the air is colder than the camera, the camera will conduct its heat into the air, and become cold.

Let's quickly check the moon. Whoops, no air.... This quickly removes the problem of air conducting the heat away from the camera.

Now let's check out another problem. Here you're saying it'd be too cold, before you were saying it was too hot, make up your mind man!

Of course it was neither, since a vacuum doesn't have a temperature. Of course during the course of the day the ground heated up to around 80-90°C towards the end of the 'J' missions (if you don't know what the 'J' missions were, look it up) but since the camera were not in contact with the ground (well unless the astronaut fell over, which happened a few times) there was no way to transfer the heat from the ground to the camera, well except by radiative heat. That however has a simple solution. By removing the leatherette covering of the cameras the chromed metal was exposed. This shiny finish reflected most of the heat from both the sun, and the ground allowing the cameras to remain at a relatively constant temperature and preventing the film from freezing or over heating. In most respects, it is exactly the same principle as a Thermos Flask, you know, keeps your hots hot and your colds cold? In this case, it kept the film and internals of the camera at around the same temperature as it was when inside the LM.
 
Okay. Then we are not ready to move on to a new point of discussion.

You have made the claim that the radiation in the Van Allen Belt is fatal to astronauts. Other people have put forth counter-arguments against that claim. You must either refute those counter-arguments, or you must retract your claim.

Please do one of the two.
 
To all,

Precipitation in the Antarctic is not relevant to the topic at hand, Van Allen Belt radiation. I'd ask that we please resolve that point of discussion first, before moving on to other items of interest.
 
There's no snow in Antarctica. Only ice. Ice isn't moisture.

Actually I think you are thinking of the Dry Desert Valleys inland. Those haven't had any snow or rain foir thousands of years because they are too cold, but there is a snow about much of the coastal areas and inland as well.

eta: The camera issue isn't a mositure thing, it's a heat transfer thing. On Earth objects coduct heat into the air when the air is colder than they are, or gain heat from the air when it is hotter. That means they heat up or cool down, such as the cameras that Michael Palin's team had. On the moon there is no air, so there is nothing to conduct the heat and things can't heat or cool in this manner, you only have to deal with radiated heat, and that can be dealt with by using surfaces that reflect the heat, such as a mirror finish or something white.
 
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I notice that near the end of the spewage on the above web page, right before the final picture, it says:

Here is what the camera’s[sic] used on all of the Apollo missions looked like. They could at no time be removed from their permanent, mounted position.


Interestingly enough (at least to me), in the picture immediately preceding it, you can clearly see the chest camera mount, but something is missing, something permanent that at no time could be removed.
 

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