10 story hole in WTC 7

[A W Smith]

Boy what a shamefull fisher of men (and chipmunks) you are Godsend

by the way GodSend WWJD??

 

[Gravy]

GodSend, this post should help you to understand the WTC insurance issues. Please don't make uninformed claims about serious subjects.

 

[Christopher7]

I know I'm a late arrival here and may have missed a lotta brilliant posts - but did someone explain why WTC#7 collapsed?''

You also missed the title of this thread.

Please read post #94 on pg 3 which presents the case for:
No gouge floor 10 to the ground in the middle of WTC 7

and #1602 on pg 41 which presents the case for:
No diesel fuel fires or debris damage in the area of the initiating event.

Please keep your posts relevant to the topic.

Thank you

Chris

 

[e^n]

[/I][/B]Please keep your posts relevant to the topic.

Thank you

Chris

Chris, I apologise if you have already answered this, I did attempt to read through your posts on the subject but this is a significant thread and it's hard to catch up.

What are your opinions on the NIST examination of column failures and the resulting external geometry changes? Do you believe the columns could have failed as NIST asserts but via explosive cutting rather than compressive stress and fire weakening?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Christopher7]

GodSend, this post should help you to understand the WTC insurance issues. Please don't make uninformed claims about serious subjects.

Speaking of uninformed claims, FOIA returned my call about what form the pictures of WTC 7 would be. They said i could get them on a CD if i wanted.

They also said that the photographs are NOT available at this time, nor have they heard the $13,700 figure.
The first 2 hours of research and the first 100 documents are free to concerned citizens who are not going to use them commercially.

Since i was the first person to make such a request, they must first search the files and get clearances from the various photographers.

What was the source of your statement in post #446 on pg 12;

"That's the kind of thing NIST has access to. If you have $13,700 you can buy copies of all their 9/11 footage and photos"

?

 

[GodSend]

JBA and chipmunk:

You get what you deserve! What you deserve is unspeakable It would behoove you to shut your mouths. Did you ever ask yourself why it's possible for me to have a mature exchange of (radically different) views with some posters here (Ladewig, TAM) but not with you? Do you know what sets you apart? I know
Grow up!

 

[Christopher7]

JBA and chipmunk:

Grow up!

Please do the same and take your childish pissing match elsewhere.

 

[Christopher7]

Chris, I apologise if you have already answered this, I did attempt to read through your posts on the subject but this is a significant thread and it's hard to catch up.

What are your opinions on the NIST examination of column failures and the resulting external geometry changes? Do you believe the columns could have failed as NIST asserts but via explosive cutting rather than compressive stress and fire weakening?

Thanks in advance.

NIST does not assert that any of that actually happened.
They put forth a hypothesis that they say "appears possible"

I am not qualified to say weather or not office fires could weaken the massive reinforced columns and cause floor systems to fail.

 

[e^n]

NIST does not assert that any of that actually happened.
They put forth a hypothesis that they "appears possible"

I am not qualified to say weather or not office fires could weaken the massive reinforced columns and cause floor systems to fail.

I apologise, ignore my comments about assertions. I do not expect you to comment on the actual method of collapse, just if you believe the possible sequence of failures provided by NIST is possible or likely?

 

[Christopher7]

I apologise, ignore my comments about assertions. I do not expect you to comment on the actual method of collapse, just if you believe the possible sequence of failures provided by NIST is possible or likely?

I think it is unlikely.

I also have a problem with 1 column pulling 5 columns to the side when all those columns are firmly attached to everything around them.

 

[GodSend]

Christopher7 and Gravy Train, et al:

Larry Silverstein's empire is vast and complex and well hidden from public view and awareness. He employs an army of lawyers. The Zionist thread runs throughout Mr. Silverstein's empire, 9/11 and 'PUT' option position profits, the phony "War on Terror", presidential election fraud, the Afghanistan invasion, the Iraq invasion, Palestinian Genocide, the Holocaust Industry, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. There is a blood, money, torture and deception trail of Zionist origin throughout the ghastly Conspiracy of Evil (Levy is right-on-the-money). Insurance fraud from pre-knowledge of 9/11 would not be out-of-character here! Do you really suppose that all these issues can or will be addressed openly and completely in this Forum? Get real! This thread is nothing more than a distraction and game of trivial pursuits.

I have a close, personal friend (Jewish lawyer) who worked for Mr. Silverstein for many years in connection with the WTC. I once asked him what he thought of his boss. His response: "NOT A NICE MAN!" (that's polite code for SOB).

What is a Zionist SOB capable of? Well, the blatant persecution and personal attacks on anyone who threatens to further open this Pandora's Box (especially 9/11), like Martin Sheen, Rosie O'Donnell, Dr. Steven Jones, Chris Bollyn, Alex Jones, Paul Levy, Henry Makow and MANY HUNDREDS (growing) of other prominent and credible individuals, some of whom put their career and possibly their very lives on the line, gives you more than a clue, doesn't it!? YES, it must all be proven - and it WILL be, to the horror of the perpetrators - murderers, criminals and traitors to America But the ENTIRE Puzzle is only solved on my website - and the hits (to my website) keep coming Soon, the entire world will be 'in-the-know'. You may not believe me now - but you will believe later.

OK, maybe I moved slightly 'off topic'

PS Here is some useful, contextual 'background':

http://reallyquitecleanpair.blogspot.com/2007/04/phillip-kurians-duke-university.html

 

[e^n]

I think it is unlikely.

I also have a problem with 1 column pulling 5 columns to the side when all those columns are firmly attached to everything around them.

Do you have an alternate theory or do you support the alternate theory of others? Also if you disagree with their hypothesis of the mode of failure, what about their recreation of external geometry differences based on column failures? It seems likely to me that the most rational conspiracy point of view is to believe that the initiating event was column 76(78? I forget, so many numbers) but this and others were explosively cut.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking you to make an assessment as an expert, simply to clarify your position as too many conspiracy theorists assert that "it's obvious it is a controlled demolition just by looking at it".

 

[Christopher7]

Christopher7 and Gravy Train, et al:

OK, maybe I moved slightly 'off topic'

Dude, you are totally off topic.

This thread is about debris damage and fire in WTC 7.

Please find the appropriate thread to post about Silverstein.

This ain't it!

 

[Christopher7]

Do you have an alternate theory or do you support the alternate theory of others? Also if you disagree with their hypothesis of the mode of failure, what about their recreation of external geometry differences based on column failures? It seems likely to me that the most rational conspiracy point of view is to believe that the initiating event was column 76(78? I forget, so many numbers) but this and others were explosively cut.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking you to make an assessment as an expert, simply to clarify your position as too many conspiracy theorists assert that "it's obvious it is a controlled demolition just by looking at it".

That is currently being discussed on the "Christopher7 --- C7 & C4" thread.

I started this thread to discuss the debris damage and fires hypothesis and avoid subject shift to CD's.

I have no opinion on their "external geometry differences based on column failures".

 

[Belz...]

The point is, that NIST put out that photo because they wanted it to be part of their argument that this debris-created corner damage assisted in the ultimate collapse of WTC7. Their photo fails the test and in a side-by-side comparison with a straight on shot of that WTC7 corner, reveals inexplicable differences unless the photo has been intentionally altered.

False dichotomy. Alternatives have been proposed to you. You just prefer the "altered" scenario because it makes everyone seem more nefarious.

Clearly the primary interest here is to protect the dogmatic belief in the NIST Official Story and ignore or bury any evidence to the contrary.

I'm going to have to invent a name for that fallacy.

did someone explain why WTC#7 collapsed?''

It was hit by a collapsing, 110-storey, flaming building. You're welcome.

Thanks! I guess we should wait for the Final NIST report. While we're waiting, who was allowed to sift through the remains? Is there a public inventory of what WAS found? - and by whom? - and where that item is NOW?

Why the hell would they want to do that ? Hey, I know, let's just leave the debris there until the whole thing is completed. Huh ? Space for reconstruction ? Nah!

Please tell me, how much has Larry Silverstein received from his insurers?

The short answer is: ENOUGH!

The longer answer is: There are a lot of circumspect details about the timing and 'structuring' details of Larry Silverstein's WTC insurance 'arrangements'. Worth investigating, for sure. And is Larry Silverstein a Zionist with some VERY interesting 'connections'? You betcha!

So you DON'T know how much he got, but you claim that he got "enough". Do you invent bits and pieces of reality often ?

OK then, let's investigate the insurance companies! Any Zionists on their BoDs? What Synagogue do they attend? (all together now: "The Synagogues of Satan", perhaps What country Clubs (and other clubs) do they belong to? Or, to approach it from the usual direction: What skeletons are in their closets?

You, sir, are paranoid. No matter how many "zionists" are in those companies, insurance companies don't give out billions of dollars to people who demolish their own buildings. It's very bad for business.

 

[stateofgrace]

stateofgrace: (better than most)

I have no problem, whatsoever, with any investigations of Al-Qaeda - provided they are carried out by a certifiably independent investigative body (that leaves out just about any US or Israeli participants). However, I have it on good authority (personal experience) that the 'War on Terror', in addition to being an oxymoron, is a Zionist fabrication, including ObL. To make a long and torturous story short (pun intended), check out my thread "Sons of Light vs. Sons of Darkness" in the General Academics/Religion & Philosophy category. It was moved there from Conspiracy Theories by the JREF PTB to keep the article by Paul Levy and my website out of the limelight.

The truth about 9/11 and the other Bush Gov't 'shenanigans' (aka 'high crimes and misdemeanors') WILL be outed - it's just a matter of time - give it just a little more time...tra, la, la... Hello, Rosie, where have you been? Where are the rest of you? Aha...........here they come............

Your answer is therefore no, you have not looked at the financing of global terrorism; you simply prefer to dismiss it. You then prefer to have people investigate it for you and when they do, you prefer to dismiss their findings. See what you prefer is irrelevent, what you know and can prove is relevant. To date you have proved one thing, you have done zero investigation and research into this area and as such because you do not understand it, dismiss it.

Equally I could not care less from what good authority you claim to have gained your vast understanding and knowledge about world events on because you have shown to all that you have no such knowledge but simply prefer to try to use belittling and patronising remarks in the hope that people will not see through your lack of knowledge

Dude, you are totally off topic.

This thread is about debris damage and fire in WTC 7.

Please find the appropriate thread to post about Silverstein.

This ain't it!

You are correct Chris, Godsend I await your in-depth thesis on the financing and funding of global terrorism in another thread.

For the time being maybe you should leave this thread and let Chris try to prove that somebody thought it was a great idea to demolition a 47 story building in broad day light, in front of the worlds media who was broadcasting it live to the entire planet and hope nobody noticed.

 

[jaydeehess]

Quote MM:

Clearly the primary interest here is to protect the dogmatic belief in the NIST Official Story and ignore or bury any evidence to the contrary.

I'm going to have to invent a name for that fallacy.

How about 'transferance', given that MM holds the dogmatic belief that evil gov't conspirators planned and caused the destruction of the WTC buildings.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Yes, it is a fact that unmitigated office fires are perfectly capable of initiating the collapse of steel structures. Do you disagree?

Not in a modern high rise steel frame building.

May I consider the following a retraction of your statement above?

I am not qualified to say weather or not office fires could weaken the massive reinforced columns and cause floor systems to fail.

 

[Belz...]

I have no problem, whatsoever, with any investigations of Al-Qaeda - provided they are carried out by a certifiably independent investigative body (that leaves out just about any US or Israeli participants). However, I have it on good authority (personal experience) that the 'War on Terror', in addition to being an oxymoron, is a Zionist fabrication, including ObL.

Your personal experience is a good authority ?

 

[Christopher7]

May I consider the following a retraction of your statement above?

No
The NIST hypothesis is full of "if" and "may have"

They don't know if it is possible for the office fires to cause the collapse.

They were speculating.

On the other hand, the Caracus towers burned out of control for 17 hours and completely gutted most of the top 20 floors.
It did not collapse.

12:30 p.m.

The next day

No one knows weather or not office fires can cause a modern steel frame building to collapse because it has never happened.

The Windsor Tower in Madrid was primarily a reinforced concrete building.
The steel perimeter columns on the upper 10 stories were light weight [1/4 inch thick] box beams.
The part that collapsed was fully involved.

WTC 7 was not fully involved.