Warning: Jackchit threatens Gravy!

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chillzero said:
I don' think that the person who reported JC to Social Services should 'own up'. I think they would be placing themselves in a very dangerous situation.
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I doubt that the report came from a poster here, but we allowed a thread on the matter to wander on for several pages - knowing that JC would read it.


If you seriously believe that something needs to be done about a situation such as this, why on earth would you post your intention publically when that very publicity would impact the outcome of those intended actions?
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I think that's a very valid point and should be born in mind in the future. There's no undoing the original action but in future

If you are a critical thinker, why take all this information at face value in the first place?
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I don't think anyone does. The consensus is that this is almost certainly a totally empty threat. It's still a serious matter.


My own opinion is this:
this conversation can bring nothing constructive, and should be halted. Gravy has been alerted to the threat, and we need do no more about that here in the domain of the JREF. Privately - if you feel things warrant reports to whichever authorities, then you should tackle that: privately.
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I still think that any actions should be taken by the person most affected. And it should be his choice what to do, if anything.

If the original concerns about JC and his family had not been so publically aired, we would not be in this situation.
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That's a useful lesson, but there's no undoing that at this stage. The fact that you've brought forward that suggestion is an example of this thread serving a useful purpose.
 
and that's why religious fanatics are amazingly dangerous. they are taking orders from god. who cares what goes on here compared to the duty to god? it's a scary mindset, and the threats that these folks make are very real, and sometimes acted upon.
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The next step below that is taking orders from your Mein Fuhrer, or in this case, Dylan Avery/Alex Jones
 
Totally agreed with Darat, and I was going to post something similar when I finally waded through the entire 7 pages.

This whole huge debate is starting to turn into a Sharks v. Jets rumble, and I think it's really getting rather disconcerting.

When I started reading this thread, it got me to thinking about all the people I've debated with, and the fact I really have no idea who they are. I went to my favorite debate grounds (UM) and strangely enough I had received a PM out of the blue from one of my more vocal adversaries. Weirdly, he just wanted to chat. So I took the opportunity to let him know that even though I disagree with him on certain issues, I don't think he's a bad person, and if he ever felt I was attacking him personally and not the issue, I apologize. He replied in kind, thankfully.

I'd like to consider yesterday to be the peak of the hostilities between the two boards. From here on out the JREFers really need to not stoop to a us v. them mentality and return to some semblence of rational debate. We really need to pass the peace pipe and calm down, and while we're at it we should look in the mirror and see if we've become what we're supposedly fighting against. Because I really don't think it can escalate from here without someone getting hurt.
 
I tend to agree with CFLarsen.

If you don't want people to report you for threats of violence, then don't make the damned threat in the first place.

As far as I can see much of what is posted on this forum is almost like a proxy moderation of the LC forum (and others).

The truthers can bitch about being accused of anti-semitism but it is the people here who highlight the fact that a known holocaust denier is a keynote speaker at an upcoming 'truther congress'. Without that glare of publicity how bothered were the truthers about the anti-semitic speaker? But after the publicity they soon change their plans.

So Jackchit, known for his wierd dealings with the police and the beckhams security, high profile enough to put out his true identity, prepared to spend the time on a myspace page designed to ridicule a poster on this forum, prepared to state that the death of his wife was a blessing, makes a threat against that same poster which despite his being an obvious fantasist is still a credible threat given the ease of travel from the uk to new york, and the LCF completely fails to moderate this person (yet again).

I think that is justification for the comments made on this thread.

Would the LCF moderators have closed the threat thread had we not shown them that it deserved outrage? I think not.
 
Darat,
I don't know.... I think you're taking a rather secular view (which of course, is your mandate, so I'm not holding that up as improper). If you look at the posts here that sound threatening, almost to a word, they are quotes from the other side, not JREF Forumites.
Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone from the JREF taking up the gauntlet and calling other members to arms. I think most of the reaction here started with Oliver and continued - we're shocked and a bit worried.
There are a lot of words bandied about between LCF and here, but no one here has come even close to threatening someone with physical harm, that I know of. And assuredly, as I follow the CT forum rather closely, no one ever remotely suggested killing someone at LCF. If anyone was to do so, even in a misguided moment of black humor, there would be fifty posters on him/her in a heartbeat.

As a whole, I think the posts here are a normal reaction to an almost incomprehensible development.

To the other members of the forum:
I do think, however, that we may have a rather unhealthy fixation with LCF.
(I'm not excluding myself...) They are the bottom-feeders of the Truth Movement, and are such an easy target that they're hard to pass on, I'll admit. And with Dylan's incessant cry for media attention, they make themselves even more so. But they're far from the most intelligent of opponents.

There have to be others far more deserving of the attention of the skeptical community here. Look at the terrific discussions that Greening has started. I'm not even close to capable of handling the math/science of Greening and Mackey and a few others, but I do appreciate a meaty debate with someone who knows what they're addressing (even if it is a friendly debate amongst posters who probably ultimately have the same overall conclusions).
 
Meh, I recive death threads all the time...from people in my own town.

I havn't been murdered yet.


Why the frick would some idiot spend 100s and fly accross the atlantic?
He's just trying to look tough infront of his twoofah buddies.
 
CFLarsen said:
Taking these kinds of threats public will not only document these threats, but perhaps also make those who make these death threats stop and think for a moment. It should definitely make those who support those who make the threats stop and think.

Whether it should be done on this forum is another issue.
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I would like to point out that I was referring not to the threats from JC, but the comments from posters here, that I feel should remain private information. Report people to social services or the police if you really, honestly see fit. Just have some common sense and keep it to yourself, and don't go on about it in a public forum where the person you intend to report can see it and decide to take action about it.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself as clear as I thought I had.

On the flip side, threats such as those made by JC - actual threats of physical harm to another person - are better out in public view, so that the person under threat has notice, and the rest of the internet community can see what kind of person the threatener is (and also weight up the 'merit' of the provocation).

The people who keep those threats private, are probably far more dangerous.
 
Somebody has made threatening e-mails to JC. Seriously, whoever sent that e-mail is just stupid. I don't think it was any of us, but as usual, we are being framed for it...
 
Sorry darat I don't agree at all. A member of another board has conspired to injure or murder another forum member. Therefore it belongs in this sub forum. I also feel that the attempt to pigeon hole the 911 discussion as an us vs them forum war and to control content is draconian.
 
@tonicblue:

"Gravy is now flying the british flag in his avatar as a clear piss take."


Can you think of any other reason--say, oh I don't know, a major news item involving British citizens--why he might wish to fly the British flag? A display of solidarity, perhaps?
 
chipmunk stew said:
@tonicblue:

"Gravy is now flying the british flag in his avatar as a clear piss take."


Can you think of any other reason--say, oh I don't know, a major news item involving British citizens--why he might wish to fly the British flag? A display of solidarity, perhaps?
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I think Gravy just realized that the Mets have no hope this season. :p
 
Firestone said:
From Dylan Avery himself!
("One less tard on the Earth" is a quote from the email.)
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This came just after a Roxdog post that implicates a former JREF member who was banned here for making threats.

Posted on 31 Dec 2007:
troy in wv has been banned for breaches of his/her Membership Agreement and for threatening another Member via PM. The content of the posts and PM have been removed from public view but a copy has been kept.
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Yes, Dylan. The JREF forum is, in fact, "real mature". The mods here ban people who make threats against others.
 
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Firestone said:
From Dylan Avery himself!
("One less tard on the Earth" is a quote from the email.)
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Hey Dylan, if you're reading this:

TROY IN WV IS HAS BEEN BANNED FROM JREF SINCE DECEMBER!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71555

ETA: oh, Chipmunk beat me to it. I'll leave my post as is, perhaps Avery can read bigger letters.
 
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Darat said:
I am reviewing this thread and it may be removed from view after that review.

In the meantime remember what this Forum is about - it's summed up neatly in the header "a place to discuss skepticism,critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly and lively way"

It is not a Forum for post by post commentary on what is said on other Forums, as I often say attack the argument not the arguer. Specifically this section is NOT a "JREF Forum v 'Loose Change' Forum". That of course is not to say that you should not, if there are claims and arguments made on other Forums regarding Conspiracy Theories, reference those claims and arguments on other Forums and discuss and tear to shreds those claims and arguments.

I have mentioned in the past there have been concerns raised by the JREF specifically regarding this section of the Forum, most of the concerns are summed up in the paragraph above. I will re-visit the concerns with the JREF and if necessary draw up (as we once had to do for the '"Politics..." section) additional guidelines to ensure this section is as it should be.

I will also place the gist of this Mod box in an announcement in this section.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat
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People, I suggest you re-read this and reflect upon a few facts.

Darat is the Chief Mod for the Forum. He mentioned that he's reviewing this thread, which means the mods are watching closely.

He also notes that there have been concerns raised by the JREF about the CT Sub-Forum. That means Randi, or at least somebody on the JREF staff, is wondering if all this 9-11 hoo-hah really is worth the problems that it generates (the majority of suspensions/bannings in the past few months have been from this Forum, IMHO-but I bet I can justify it if I have to). James Randi seldom posts in the Forum, but he knows it is here (with over 120 posters at TAM5, he can't very well miss it). And if Mr. Randi ain't happy, then we aren't going to be happy...

So my advice to everyone is CALM DOWN. Take a couple of deep breaths. Gravy is on notice, the threats have been reported to the proper authorities, the ravings on LC remain ravings, and nothing is left to be gained.

Let's stay on target (the debunkification of woo) and try to keep the personalities out of it.

Blind'em with Science, not Tabloid-writing.

IMHO as always.
 
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