Should prostitution be legal?

[The Atheist]

That does not change the fact that this line of business is unpleasant and disgusting,

Whoa there, mate! "unpleasant and disgusting"? On what/whose criteria is that? Is all sex disgusting? Or just when money's paid for it?

On that basis, I would assume that you count all forms of pornography as "unpleasant and disgusting" too? Surely, if paying for the sex act is revolting, paying to watch a woman disrobe/masturbate etc. must be as well?

even if the johns want to remain in denial about this.

Given that the average "client" is a middle-aged, married businessman, I'm not sure what denial has to do with it. Simple sexual gratification, I would have thought.

Even thinking about it isn't very sexy, now, is it?

Actually, if you knew some of the hookers I do, you might find it's a huge turn-on!

(Or maybe that's because I know I'm not allowed to sample the fruit?)

 

[The Atheist]

And you can only catch an STD via a prostitute? You can't catch it from a girl/boy friend? Husband/wife? A one night stand? Why don't we have the state, in all it's jack-booted glory, regulate these sexual arrangements?

Good point. I would suggest that the chances of catching an STD at a high-class brothel are a huge amount less than the chances of catching it off some dirty pick-up in a bar.

A sensible prostitute - as they all are in smart establishments - ensures that the bloke always wears a condom.

That drunken slapper at the party last night didn't.

 

[Azure]

Ok, I didn't realise that all prostitutes are drug addicts run by gangs nowadays. Or that this is a new development.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I never said 'all' prostitutes were drug addicts run by gangs.

But that IS the lifestyle that goes with it here in North America. Don't believe me?

Come to any major city in the US and I'll show you.

 

[Lonewulf]

Come to any major city in the US and I'll show you.

Come to any major city in the US, and I can show you that there are arrogant atheists, fundamentalist Christians, and racist whites and blacks.

But, statistically speaking, what is the ratio between prostitutes that are run by gangsters, and those that are not, especially when it's legalized?

 

[qayak]

But that IS the lifestyle that goes with it here in North America. Don't believe me?

No, I don't believe you. That is the lifestyle you see from your experience. That is the lifestyle that is in the media and regurgitated by a system that wants to keep prostitution illegal. You see these women on the street and that is your idea of what a prostitute is.

Your idea is not nearly the reality of prostitution.

 

[The Atheist]

I never said 'all' prostitutes were drug addicts run by gangs.

But that IS the lifestyle that goes with it here in North America. Don't believe me?

Come to any major city in the US and I'll show you.

Well, when your statement says:

...but that is probably because of the insane lifestyle that goes with prostitution these days.

you should expect to be able to back it up, or even better, clarify what you meant.

If you had said:

...but that is probably because of the insane lifestyle that often goes with prostitution these days, in North America.

Then I doubt anyone would have had much of a problem.

Aside from whether that's even true - and the couple of posts above this indicate it certainly isn't universal in USA/CA - the other point is that we're talking about legalised prostitution. One thing legality has absolutely done here is to decrease the ownership and involvement by gangs.

Drug-taking among legal prostitutes is also extremely low; now that they are on the side of the law, well-run brothels wish to keep their good name and don't allow drug-users to work for them.

 

[clarsct]

If all these bad things happen to prostitutes and it is so wrong, why don't we lock up sluts?

 

[The Atheist]

If all these bad things happen to prostitutes and it is so wrong, why don't we lock up sluts?

Jesus mate, you need to get back to thickos at SC!

It's perfectly ok for a slut to have wild, unprotected sex with 50 guys a month, but as soon as she charges them for it, it becomes a mortal sin. DUH! Money is the root of all evil*... remember?

(*Such terminology being totally appropriate in an Antipodean context, "root" = "screw", but more vulgarly so.)

 

[clarsct]

I have an Aussie friend and she keeps me updated on the lingo..

BTW: The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money is innocent, it is the way we FEEL about money that is good or evil. We are.

 

[dann]

It's perfectly ok for a slut to have wild, unprotected sex with 50 guys a month, but as soon as she charges them for it, it becomes a mortal sin.

Unprotected sex with 50 guys would be very stupid. Having to have unprotected sex with 50 guys because you need the money is the mortal sin ...
Very few women want to have sex with that many guys in a month or even a lifetime. When a lot of women do, it's not because they are sluts. It's because they are prostitutes. They don't do it for the "wild" sex.

 

[cgallaga]

In the words of George Carlin: If selling is legal and F****** is legal, why isn't selling F****** legal?

 

[dann]

Denial, denial, denial ….

Some people find S&M, bondage, and homosexuality to be "unpleasant and disgusting".

Lonewulf, yes, a lot of disgusting stuff takes place between ’consenting adults’. The masochist, however, agrees to the SM act for the sake of his/her own pleasure (that the Ms have this need to pretend that it isn’t for their pleasure doesn’t change the fact), the prostitute does not. Let me quote myself again:

This question is much easier to answer since poverty is the obvious reason that some people provide this ‘service’ which is very different from most other paid services in as far as the provider is not primarily being paid for her (or his) skills or qualifications, but mainly for her resignation, for forcing herself to overcome her aversion to having sex with a person that she would not otherwise have sex with.

You pay the prostitute to overcome her revulsion. I don’t think the sadist (usually) pays the masochist.

That doesn't justify making it illegal.

I, for one, never claimed that it did!

If women are becoming prostitutes because they have no other choice and suffer from it, then you either make work conditions better for the prostitutes,

And how exactly would that change the fact that "they have no other choice"? It wouldn’t!

or you eliminate the need to become a prostitute.

EXACTLY!!! Now we're getting somewhere!

Making it illegal is counter-productive, as it takes away the one option that they were forced into in the first place.

They usually have more than one option – all of them bad!

Then it also makes it hard for them to get good work when they're picked up by the police, giving them a criminal record.

Good work? Is it good work to have sex with people that revolt you, but with an employer who earns money from your ‘services’ and in return sees to it that you don’t use drugs to overcome your revulsion and check up on you so you don’t pass on STDs to the johns?! Really a wonderful, humane arrangement!

How about another form of prostitution? A woman and a man are on a date. She has expensive tastes, and he's willing to pay for those things. In exchange, he gets to keep her company. This isn't prostitution... how?

So "another form of prostitution" (...) "isn't prostitution"?
And how, exactly, isn't it??? Who are you arguing with?

 

[dann]

And......???? You have kind of lost me with this. Oh I see, you think it is disgusting.

That is the whole point, isn't it? As a prostitute you don't have sex with somebody because you enjoy having sex with that person. You have sex with him and pretend to enjoy it because you need the money. And, yes, that is disgusting.

So yes, I guess you're right, it should be abolished. Incidentally, do you still believe that sex is something that men do to women?

Still?!! I guess you are trying to make a point with your completely unreasonable question ...

 

[dann]

As long as human beings have sex of any form then prostitution will exist.

You may not have noticed, but there is a big difference between prostitution and sex.

Even if every human had access to everything they could ever want and lived in a utopia style society, I would guarantee that there would still be prostitutes.

Well, I thank you for your guarantee ....

I agree with you that prostitution involves the exchange of sex for money. However, you were saying that the core reason people become involved in prostitution is because they are poor. This is the asertion I am arguing against.

So argue!

On top of that, in our current society, we are never going to abolish your core reason, poverty. So why make the act illegal on top of everything else?

Illegal prostitution won't be abolished by legalizing prostitution anyway.

 

[dann]

Impossible. As long as people want sex there will be a market it for it. Depite the illusions some people have of "free love" if you want certain acts performed with certain people, you're going to have offer something in exchange, in this case money.

I'm sorry, but I never had to pay somebody to have sex with me.

As long as it is between consenting adults, why is it the state's business?

Did I say that it was?

And you can only catch an STD via a prostitute?

I said that???!

You can't catch it from a girl/boy friend? Husband/wife? A one night stand?

You cannot see that you are being an idiot?

Please remember your membership agreement calls for civility toward other members; don't personalize the discussion with insults.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

Why don't we have the state, in all it's jack-booted glory, regulate these sexual arrangements?

The people who are so very interested in the question legal/illegal are the ones who want the state to regulate this arrangement. I'm not one of them. And I'm probably the only one in this thread who isn't!

You say that is if it were a bad thing. Which is it; the sex (Sex bad!) or the money (Free enterprise bad!)?

Being so bad off that having sex with somebody you don't feel attracted to seems like a good idea. That is bad!
Being so caught up in the two bad alternatives, legal or forbidden prostitution, that you are unable to read and understand what other people write is bad!

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Lonewulf, yes, a lot of disgusting stuff takes place between ’consenting adults’.

Why are any of those acts "disgusting"? They might not be my cup of tea, but I don't see these sexual acts as "disgusting". Why you do classify S&M, bondage and homosexuality as "disgusting"?

As a prostitute you don't have sex with somebody because you enjoy having sex with that person. You have sex with him and pretend to enjoy it because you need the money. And, yes, that is disgusting.

Why is it disgusting? It's just sex.

And may I point out that not everyone enjoys having sex with their spouse. Some people stay married for other reasons, and find their physical releases elsewhere.

You may not have noticed, but there is a big difference between prostitution and sex.

Not really mate. Many acts of sex have a payment attached to them, it's just not as overt as an exchange of cash.

Illegal prostitution won't be abolished by legalizing prostitution anyway.

Yes, you are right, legalising prostitution will not get rid of illegal prostitution. Thus there is absolutely no reason to leave prostitution illegal.

You didn't answer my question: what do you think about a woman who hires a male prostitute for sex for an hour or two?

Dann, as much as you find prostitution replusive, do you think that it is better for it to be legal, and thus safer for all involved, or illegal, and run by the local gang or drug dealer?

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[dann]

One of them even said to me "why work for Mr X for $500 a week, when I can [Rule 8] him for $500 an hour?".

EXACTLY! Two disgusting alternatives, so she chose 'the one less travelled by'.

Ah, now I think we're getting to the actual cause of your underlying distaste.

My distaste isn't "underlying".

You don't think sex for money is a good thing, regardless of the situation. Sex is paid for in many, many different ways, Dann, not just through cash or a credit card.

I appreciate your attempt at being educational, but you aren't telling me anything new.

Have you ever had a one night stand?

Yes, but it really never was a favourite of mine. And none of us felt pressurized into having sex on those occations, and nobody was paid.

These things regularly happen in our society. Prostitution is really no different, its just a little bit more "up front" in how it is paid for.

No, it isn't. Money for sex is prostitution. Sex isn't.

Dann, can you please answer a question for me - what do you think about a woman who hires a male prostitute for sex for an hour or two?

Why do you want me to think about her? Is it important that the john is a woman? Is it important that it is a male prostitute? And is it important that it is only for an hour or two and not for the whole night?

 

[The Great Hairy One]

My distaste isn't "underlying".

No, you're right, it's completely over the top and all consuming! Why does the thought of sex disgust you so much?

Yes, but it really never was a favourite of mine. And none of us felt pressurized into having sex on those occations, and nobody was paid.

Nobody was paid? So the food costs were equally split, there was no begging involved, etc., etc? Are you 100% sure?

No, it isn't. Money for sex is prostitution. Sex isn't.

Sex happens for many, many reasons mate, not just because two naked people accidentally fall into bed together.

Why do you want me to think about her? Is it important that the john is a woman? Is it important that it is a male prostitute? And is it important that it is only for an hour or two and not for the whole night?

The point of the question is to see if you would wrinkle your nose as hard if the client was female. I'm getting the distinct impression from you that you think that women don't enjoy sex, don't have any desire to have sex and are pretty much asexual, and it's males who have all the sexual drives.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[dann]

Whoa there, mate! "unpleasant and disgusting"? On what/whose criteria is that? Is all sex disgusting?

Not the sex I've had so far. And the women seemed to enjoy it too.

Or just when money's paid for it?

Yes, paying somebody to overcome her unwillingness to have sex with you is what makes it disgusting. But being in a situation where you would even consider having sex with somebody even though you don't feel like it, is the real problem.

On that basis, I would assume that you count all forms of pornography as "unpleasant and disgusting" too?

You assume a lot.

Surely, if paying for the sex act is revolting, paying to watch a woman disrobe/masturbate etc. must be as well?

Yes, having to disrobe and masturbate for somebody that you wouldn't otherwise want to disrobe and masturbate for is revolting.

Given that the average "client" is a middle-aged, married businessman, I'm not sure what denial has to do with it. Simple sexual gratification, I would have thought.

So you actually think that your businessmen would enjoy hearing the truth? 'You are an ugly bastard, I hate what I'm doing with you so much that I have to take drugs, and when I yell that I'm coming, I'm only play-acting to boost your ego and make you come. That's what you pay me for!' Or isn't that the "Simple sexual gratification" you are thinking of?

Actually, if you knew some of the hookers I do, you might find it's a huge turn-on!

No, I probably wouldn't. Leave your masturbation fantasies behind and get back to reality, Atheist!

 

[dann]

No, you're right, it's completely over the top and all consuming! Why does the thought of sex disgust you so much?

Nice try, Mr Strawman! You are a complete idiot!

Impossible. As long as people want sex there will be a market it for it. Depite the illusions some people have of "free love" if you want certain acts performed with certain people, you're going to have offer something in exchange, in this case money.

I'm sorry, but I never had to pay somebody to have sex with me.

As long as it is between consenting adults, why is it the state's business?

Did I say that it was?

And you can only catch an STD via a prostitute?

I said that???!

You can't catch it from a girl/boy friend? Husband/wife? A one night stand?

You cannot see that you are being an idiot?

Again, dann, please remember your membership agreement calls for civility toward other members; don't personalize the discussion with insults.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

Why don't we have the state, in all it's jack-booted glory, regulate these sexual arrangements?

The people who are so very interested in the question legal/illegal are the ones who want the state to regulate this arrangement. I'm not one of them. And I'm probably the only one in this thread who isn't!

You say that is if it were a bad thing. Which is it; the sex (Sex bad!) or the money (Free enterprise bad!)?

Being so bad off that having sex with somebody you don't feel attracted to seems like a good idea. That is bad!
Being so caught up in the two bad alternatives, legal or forbidden prostitution, that you are unable to read and understand what other people write is bad!

Nobody was paid? So the food costs were equally split, there was no begging involved, etc., etc? Are you 100% sure?

Yes, I'm 100% sure! I've never paid for sex, I've never begged for it, and in here in Scandinavia we usually split the bill. If we don't it doesn't mean that anybody is supposed to pay for the meal by giving into the other person's 'begging'!

Sex happens for many, many reasons mate, not just because two naked people accidentally fall into bed together.

Mate? I've never fallen naked into bed with anyone by accident.

The point of the question is to see if you would wrinkle your nose as hard if the client was female. I'm getting the distinct impression from you that you think that women don't enjoy sex, don't have any desire to have sex and are pretty much asexual, and it's males who have all the sexual drives.

The point of your question was fairly obvious. Your distinct impressions are just as wrong as everything else you write.