Should prostitution be legal?

[Lonewulf]

It was range of prices I heard quoted during an HBO documentary one of the more well-known Nevada brothels. Of course it makes sense. Since they're one of the few areas in the U.S. where prostitution is kosher, there is little competition and they can therefore charge whatever they want.

Since it's Nevada, home to Reno and Las Vegas, it's not too hard to find high rollers for customers.

Wait, little competition? Actually, I think there's plenty of competition. But it depends on what clintele the prostitutes are dealing with. But yeah, there's far more high-rollers in Nevada than anywhere else, as the rich specifically move in there; it's technically a resort, with resort-like prices.

I'm sure you'll find a "low-class brothel" in Nevada, as well as individual prostitutes, that charge far less. In the same sense, you can eat at a five star resteraunt to a one star resteraunt; and the prices vary extremely.

 

[clarsct]

I don't, but I'm sure that it will be the "service" that will be deemed the GOODS in this case.

Scary door to open. Then the Feds can claim the right to regulate/ban all sorts of services, from hairdressers to handymen. Bad precedent....(Not saying it can't happen, but I am saying that the SCOTUS judges are aware of what they are doing when they set such a precedent..may give them pause..)

In all of this I must confess I have a very strong bias: I'm 32-years-old, I'm still a virgin (my Catholic upbringing and frigid ex-girlfriend saw to that), and I want to have sexual intercourse at least once before I die (hopefully soon). Since no woman I find attractive will have sex with me WITHOUT compensation because I'm so butt ugly, I'm going to have pay for it.

I'd rather not end up having to spend jail time and paying fines just because I wanted some basic sexual gratification. Even fat, ugly, geeks need sex with something other than their right (or left) hands. The trouble is, I have to pay for it.

I am sorry to hear you're in that situation, Mark. Once again, no shame in paying for it.

Look around, you might find it isn't as bad as HBO makes it out to be.

 

[dann]

Should prostitution be legal?

is a very stupid question. A better one would be: Why do some women have to resort to prostitution to provide for themselves and, sometimes, for their families?

This question is much easier to answer since poverty is the obvious reason that some people provide this ‘service’ which is very different from most other paid services in as far as the provider is not primarily being paid for her (or his) skills or qualifications, but mainly for her resignation, for forcing herself to overcome her aversion to having sex with a person that she would not otherwise have sex with.

We all know it and it is not very hard to imagine: Sex is great – as long as we do it with somebody we find attractive, somebody we want and desire to have sex with. To have sex with somebody we dislike or who turns us off (you can easily come up with your own examples!) is unpleasant - or even disgusting.
And this is the most important ‘qualification’ that a prostitute has to master: Not only to have sex with a man she does not feel attracted to, but also to pretend that it does not bother her and maybe even that she enjoys it: this charade makes the john come faster!
This also explains why so many prostitutes have to resort to drugs: Most jobs don’t get any easier when your emotions and consciousness are drugged. Prostitution, however, does!

So it is not very strange that prostitutes are not mainly recruited from the upper classes. This is a ‘profession’ that you only resort to when your alternatives are unemployment benefits, abject poverty or forty hours a week in a low-paid McJob.

Should alternatives like these be legal, the alternatives forced upon people by poverty? Well, they certainly are, aren’t they?

 

[The Atheist]

Well, that doesn't sound like near as much fun as I'd imagined! But the wives could go with!

That does happen, on rare occasions. I'm told that when it does, it's all about him anyway; "I want you to go down on my wife while I watch"

Ooh, that would just drive me crazy! I'd have to slip her some thiopental while we were fishing so I could find out the scoop!

I know! It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't let out enough to be very interesting. I know that a High Court judge is among the clientele. I guess he can afford it ok.

Perhaps it's the absence of love itself that would allow such a union.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a bond - I've got three kids as well as a wife - but I think it's more a human construct than an actual process*. There was a court verdict of manslaughter brought in last week for a father who killed one of his daughters by driving off a cliff with his kids in the car. He sobbingly told the court about how much he loved his children. That's a thread fairly common to people who kill their kids. Strange thing, love.

*The chemical process of lust seems to be understood and I think "love" sometimes grows out of that, with respect and admiration replacing the lust, over time.

Wow, you show what the prices are in Nevada - absolute price gouging.

** The Atheist makes note. Don't go to Nevada if you're horny**

Remember the movie The Elephant Man? That is an extreme example of the sort of thing I am talking about and humane service that sex worker can provide.

Very good point and one which has been overlooked entirely.

There has been a lot of noise made here on occasion because health workers who work with intellectually disabled people have arranged prostitute visists to take care of physical needs. From the hookers' perspective, they enjoy performing the service as they feel 100% safe and do get a sense of gratification from the mercy ####. Old blokes and the handicapped are customers of choice - polite, non-kinky, non-threatening and cheerful. Discounts are usual.

 

[The Atheist]

In all of this I must confess I have a very strong bias: I'm 32-years-old, I'm still a virgin (my Catholic upbringing and frigid ex-girlfriend saw to that), and I want to have sexual intercourse at least once before I die (hopefully soon). Since no woman I find attractive will have sex with me WITHOUT compensation because I'm so butt ugly, I'm going to have pay for it.

Couple of points here, mate.

First off, I hope the "soon" refers to getting laid and not croaking - I'm going to assume so.

I have to say that you don't look like something which crawled out of a lake near Chernobyl, so I'm going to suggest that it's your attitude, not your looks which are the problem. Your pic does not show the type of guy women run away from, on looks. Plus, women are not as "lookist" as men anyway. I have a couple of friends who look they just won Mr Puniverse , yet have drop-dead gorgeous women.

Relaxing is the key. I bet you that once you break your duck and get laid, you'll find that the urgency goes out of the equation and women will be more ready to go out with you. I tell my customers always that the worst person to hire is one who is desperate for a job. It's the same with sex - the guy who's dying to get laid never does, while the slacker who doesn't care has them queueing up to climb into bed with him.

Mate, never mind the illegality, just find out where some nice hookers are and go and GET LAID! It will do you the world of good, then you can get down to the serious business of finding a woman worth spending some time with. What's the worst that could happen? $100 fine? Didn't do Hugh Grant's career any harm. (or Divine Brown, for that matter)

You can do this, mate - and I expect full details to be posted in a new thread!

(not really, but if you want to share the details, I'm sure there are plenty of voyeurs who will read all about it!)

 

[Azure]

What's so "insane" about the lifestyle "these days"?

Drugs, gang involvement, etc, etc....surely you don't want anyone exposed to something like that?

And yes I realize that its insane because its illegal.

 

[Azure]

Maybe across the border in Canada? I don't know the legalities there, but you might have better luck!

Cheers,
TGHO

Still illegal as well.

 

[The Atheist]

Drugs, gang involvement, etc, etc....surely you don't want anyone exposed to something like that?

And yes I realize that its insane because its illegal.

Ok, I didn't realise that all prostitutes are drug addicts run by gangs nowadays. Or that this is a new development.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Dann,

Your post does not successfully argue that the question itself is "stupid". If these women are forced into prostitution due to their financial straights, why make it also illegal, thus not only adding the confines of having sexual relations with people you don't like, but also the possibility of gaol time, police harrassment, exploitation by pimps, etc., etc.? Why add into the mix all the problems and issues that come with illegality??

Yes, some women (and men) prostitute themselves because they desperately need the money. However, this is a sweeping generalisation. The reasons that people go into prostitution are myriad, and can not be contained under the single heading "poverty".

Furthermore, your ascertation that most prostitutes are on drugs is incorrect. Where prostitution is legal, drug usage is quite low, and in some areas, non-existant.

Go and read this blog, from an industry insider in Sydney:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2007/03/as_you_may_have_seen.html

Prostitution is not a single reason issue. It's a very complex and far reaching area than requires quite a bit of study before being fully understood.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[The Atheist]

This is a ‘profession’ that you only resort to when your alternatives are unemployment benefits, abject poverty or forty hours a week in a low-paid McJob.

Sorry mate, but that is a strawman.

Many prostitutes - in NZ at least - have come from quite highly-paid positions. I personally know a former accountant and a former legal secretary who have become prostitutes purely because of the easy money to be earned.

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Drugs, gang involvement, etc, etc....surely you don't want anyone exposed to something like that?

And yes I realize that its insane because its illegal.

Then legalising it would remove most of these issues, yes?

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[dann]

Your post does not successfully argue that the question itself is "stupid". If these women are forced into prostitution due to their financial straights, why make it also illegal, thus not only adding the confines of having sexual relations with people you don't like, but also the possibility of gaol time, police harrassment, exploitation by pimps, etc., etc.? Why add into the mix all the problems and issues that come with illegality??

You tend to forget that I did not argue for illegalizing prostitution. My argument is for abolishing it.

Yes, some women (and men) prostitute themselves because they desperately need the money. However, this is a sweeping generalisation. The reasons that people go into prostitution are myriad, and can not be contained under the single heading "poverty".

It can be contained under the heading "sex for money", not for fun!

Furthermore, your ascertation that most prostitutes are on drugs is incorrect.

My ascertation was "many", not "most"!

Where prostitution is legal, drug usage is quite low, and in some areas, non-existant.

Yes, and sometimes it's even required that the prostitutes are tested for more than STDs! I think that says everything about this line of business. (And you still seem to think that I argue for the illegality of prostitution. Screw the law!

Go and read this blog, from an industry insider in Sydney:
http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/allmenareliars/archives/2007/03/as_you_may_have_seen.html

I'd rather not.

Prostitution is not a single reason issue.

Yes, it is: Sex for money!

It's a very complex

No, it isn't! It's sex for money!

and far reaching area than requires quite a bit of study before being fully understood.

Then I guess I will only understand it partially.

 

[dann]

It's a very complex and far reaching area than requires quite a bit of study before being fully understood.

OK, so now I've 'studied' your link, and I don't see why you find it so informative:

As I've gotten older and realised the sometimes terrible social and mental pressures that force many women into the job, it's made it harder for me to indulge in a trip to the cathouse, and that's not to take anything away from the the millions of women who've made intelligent, informed decisions about their entry into the game.

The "terrible social and mental pressures that force many women into the job" are a fact. It isn't hard to find the statistics to support the claim. However, "the millions (!!!) of women who've made intelligent, informed decisions about their entry into the game" are nothing more than a (male) myth!
I don't mean to dismiss the Atheist's acquaintances - there probably are one or two prostitutes from "quite highly-paid positions" out there - but it's a lie that the money is "easy"! If you are young and beautiful, and stay away from drugs, however, you can probably earn the money a lot faster as a prostitute than as a "legal secretary". That does not change the fact that this line of business is unpleasant and disgusting, even if the johns want to remain in denial about this. Even thinking about it isn't very sexy, now, is it?

 

[Lonewulf]

That does not change the fact that this line of business is unpleasant and disgusting, even if the johns want to remain in denial about this. Even thinking about it isn't very sexy, now, is it?

Some people find S&M, bondage, and homosexuality to be "unpleasant and disgusting". That doesn't justify making it illegal.

If women are becoming prostitutes because they have no other choice and suffer from it, then you either make work conditions better for the prostitutes, or you eliminate the need to become a prostitute. Making it illegal is counter-productive, as it takes away the one option that they were forced into in the first place. Then it also makes it hard for them to get good work when they're picked up by the police, giving them a criminal record.

But okay, so you said this:

You tend to forget that I did not argue for illegalizing prostitution. My argument is for abolishing it.

Here's a question: What kinds of prostitution are you for abolishing?

What about dinner and sex? Is that different than exchanging money for sex? I take a woman out to dinner, we have a one-night stand, we go home, case closed. This happens, didn't you know? This is different from prostitution because... what? It's food, not direct cash?

If two people decide to have a one-night stand for free, then... what's the big deal? It's a one-night stand, they had fun, case closed. I don't think we should abolish that. Do you?

So at what point does it become wrong and abolishable? When someone actually offers money instead?

I'm sorry, but I can't buy the myth that all (or even most) prostitutes are suffering ragged women who were all forced into their line of work. Maybe if there was actual concrete evidence for this claim, I would buy it.

Quite frankly, while there are women that are willing to go for "dinner and a one-night stand", or a one-night stand for free, I'm willing to accept that there are women that are willing to exchange money for sex, without suffering psychological damage. I'm sorry, but that's just me.

How about another form of prostitution? A woman and a man are on a date. She has expensive tastes, and he's willing to pay for those things. In exchange, he gets to keep her company. This isn't prostitution... how?

 

[billydkid]

It's sex for money!

And......???? You have kind of lost me with this. Oh I see, you think it is disgusting. So yes, I guess you're right, it should be abolished. Incidentally, do you still believe that sex is something that men do to women?

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Dann,

How would you abolish prostitution? As long as human beings have sex of any form then prostitution will exist. Even if every human had access to everything they could ever want and lived in a utopia style society, I would guarantee that there would still be prostitutes.

I agree with you that prostitution involves the exchange of sex for money. However, you were saying that the core reason people become involved in prostitution is because they are poor. This is the asertion I am arguing against.

On top of that, in our current society, we are never going to abolish your core reason, poverty. So why make the act illegal on top of everything else?

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[Lonewulf]

Well, to be fair, I'm all for eliminating poverty myself.

BUt I don't think that only poor women become prostitutes. What about courtesans and the like? They've been around all throughout history; and there's always been high-class and low-class prostitutes, in every single society in history.

Some prostitutes had a lot of status in Imperial Japan, for instance. In fact, someone that married a high-ranking prostitute actually had quite a status bonus; he was considered to be quite impressive.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

You tend to forget that I did not argue for illegalizing prostitution. My argument is for abolishing it.

Impossible. As long as people want sex there will be a market it for it. Depite the illusions some people have of "free love" if you want certain acts performed with certain people, you're going to have offer something in exchange, in this case money. As long as it is between consenting adults, why is it the state's business?

Yes, and sometimes it's even required that the prostitutes are tested for more than STDs! I think that says everything about this line of business.

And you can only catch an STD via a prostitute? You can't catch it from a girl/boy friend? Husband/wife? A one night stand? Why don't we have the state, in all it's jack-booted glory, regulate these sexual arrangements?

Sex for money!

You say that is if it were a bad thing. Which is it; the sex (Sex bad!) or the money (Free enterprise bad!)?

 

[The Great Hairy One]

OK, so now I've 'studied' your link, and I don't see why you find it so informative:

The "terrible social and mental pressures that force many women into the job" are a fact. It isn't hard to find the statistics to support the claim. However, "the millions (!!!) of women who've made intelligent, informed decisions about their entry into the game" are nothing more than a (male) myth!

I'm not denying that many women or men go into prostitution due to financial pressure. I am arguing that not ALL women or men - or even the majority - go into prostitution due to financial pressure. Whilst annecdotes are not evidence, let me offer one - I know of two women who went into prostitution, even though they lived comfortable lives and were well off financially, simply because they could make a lot more money. One of them even said to me "why work for Mr X for $500 a week, when I can [Rule 8] him for $500 an hour?".

I don't mean to dismiss the Atheist's acquaintances - there probably are one or two prostitutes from "quite highly-paid positions" out there - but it's a lie that the money is "easy"! If you are young and beautiful, and stay away from drugs, however, you can probably earn the money a lot faster as a prostitute than as a "legal secretary". That does not change the fact that this line of business is unpleasant and disgusting, even if the johns want to remain in denial about this. Even thinking about it isn't very sexy, now, is it?

Ah, now I think we're getting to the actual cause of your underlying distaste. You don't think sex for money is a good thing, regardless of the situation. Sex is paid for in many, many different ways, Dann, not just through cash or a credit card. Have you ever had a one night stand? These things regularly happen in our society. Prostitution is really no different, its just a little bit more "up front" in how it is paid for.

Dann, can you please answer a question for me - what do you think about a woman who hires a male prostitute for sex for an hour or two?

Lonewulf - I'm all for eliminating poverty as well, but I don't see it happening in our current society.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[The Atheist]

Some people find S&M, ... to be "unpleasant and disgusting".

Disgusting?? Just wait until I get my leather strap to your ass, buddy!

Oh, you mean, some people. Yes, well they would, wouldn't they?

How about another form of prostitution? A woman and a man are on a date. She has expensive tastes, and he's willing to pay for those things. In exchange, he gets to keep her company. This isn't prostitution... how?

Or the businessman who pays for his mistress' rent, clothes, food and spending money, after having bought her a Mercedes to drive around in?

That isn't even illegal, yet it's prostitution every bit as much as the $50 blowjob-type-hooker in your car.