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Let us have a fact check.

Without Rights said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
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For f**ks sake, WR. You're about a year and a half behind the argument on this one.

Edit:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77984
http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/abdulaziz_al_omari_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/ahmed_al-nami_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/khalid_al_mihdhar_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/mohammed_atta_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/said_al-ghamdi_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/salem_al-hamzi_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/wail_al-shehri_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/waleed_al-shehri_still_alive.html
http://www.911myths.com/html/mohand_alshehri_still_alive.html

You asked for facts, I gave you facts. Don't give me THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED urban legends in return.
 
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Without Rights we are more stupid for responding to your thread.

The evidence is in. The facts are in. They support what everyone witnessed. You got nothing.
 
Without Rights said:
Your first part is a fact the second part is rhetoric. Where are the examples that show that steel connections are the "first to fail" in a fire.


Doesn't that contradict your last "fact". Why did all the welding and bolts fail everywhere except where the trusses connected to the outer column. Those bolts stayed so strong that they pulled in huge steel beams and also broke through the concrete slabs while all the other just failed completely.
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Fact: Without Rights doesn't know the difference between "fire" and "impact".
 
(in no particular order and not meant to be a complete list)
  • American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 757-223 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the North Tower of the WTC complex
  • United Airlines Flight 175, a Boeing 757-222 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the South Tower of the WTC complex
  • American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757-223 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the Pentagon
  • Fires were observed in the North Tower of the WTC complex after the impact of American Airlines Flight 11 and continued to be observed until the collapse of the tower
  • Fires were observed in the South Tower of the WTC complex after the impact of United Airlines Flight 175 and continued to be observed until the collapse of the tower
Let's start there, and if we are in agreement, we can add on more.
 
"Could have", not absolutely did. So not a fact.
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Wrong, “flying fuel laden 767’s into skyscrapers can make them collapse” is a fact. It is showing that the evidence based account is plausible, a fact which most Paranoid Conspiracy theorists dispute

More info is required to respond to this. The govt theory doesn't explain all observed data either.
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ok, let me know which observed data the evidence based theory does not explain. Show how it undermines the evidence based theory.

You are right. That doesn't make it fact. Also who would want to step up and get labelled insane or get fired like what has already taken place. But some engineers do have alternate theories that explain the total collapse. Something NIST doesn't even try to do. You say they have not been able to refute, but most have not tried to refute it.
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No, it is a fact that there has been no competent structural engineering analysis done which refutes the NIST findings of collapse initiation. There has been no competent published analysis refuting the NIST statement that after collapse initiation, there is no reason to believe that collapse should have been arrested at any point.
Regimes like Iran are prepared to believe anything of the USA, and eth Bush administration in particular, Iran is also not above using their own academics to produce “academic” papers pushing Iran’s political beliefs (See their Holocaust denial conference, or their recent herbal AIDS “cure”). Any structural engineer in Iran 9and there are some) could make himself a national hero by proving that 9/11 was an inside job- yet none have taken that opportunity- and eth brilliant thing about science, is that people can check each others methods and results, so if the hypothetical Iranian structural engineer could provide robust evidence for his conclusions, other engineers would have to listen. This has not happened- there are only two explanations for this either
1) the NIST findings are so robust that even the holocaust revisionists in Iran can’t twist maths and science to give a credible alternative explanation for eth collapse of eth twin towers or
2) The conspiracy reaches to Iran and is preventing the “truth” from coming out even there.
 
chipmunk stew said:
In case you missed it:
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Fact: the 19 men implicated in the plot have all disappeared off the face of the earth.
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Not according to the BBC.
Fact: several of the 19 men were identified by people on the planes
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How is that? Aren't they dead? How would they know who they were to identify them on a plane phone?
Fact: records show that at least one of the 19 men on each plane had taken flight lessons at the same flight school
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And the instructors said they could barely fly a cessna.
Fact: the 19 men had financial connections with a known terrorist group
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Which India media reported had connections with US intel heads.
Fact: records show that some of the 19 men lived in Germany and associated with convicted terrorists there
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Source?
Fact: the 19 men appear on the four flight manifests
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Not originally, they showed up on the manifest later. FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN twice that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers."
Fact: the flight 93 cockpit recorder captured the voices of men speaking Arabic taking over the plane
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All we have is transcipts, not the actual recordings. What is on them would be suspect unless we can hear them for ourselves.
Fact: several of the 19 men appear on a martyrdom video talking about their upcoming mission
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CNN reports said "The tape has no soundtrack and a U.S. source said lip-readers had tried without success to decipher what was being said."
Fact: Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed to his role in planning the attack
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Mainstream media and a majority of Americans say that the confessions cannot be trusted because the CIA confession of waterboarding torture, and the fact that he has delusions of grandeur.
Fact: Osama Bin Laden appears on video confessing to foreknowledge of the plot and praising its success
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The FBI says they have no evidence that OBL was connected to 911. That means that the video is suspect. It doesn'e even look like OBL.
 
2) The conspiracy reaches to Iran and is preventing the “truth” from coming out even there.
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Is it so hard to believe with all the NWO satellites controlling what we see, Star Wars beam weapons bringing down buildings from space? Plus every body knows that Iran is paid off by the CIA and is acting as a disinfo agent for us so that we can steal all the oil in the middle east. It's so freaking obvious...duhhh!
</sarcasm>
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
(in no particular order and not meant to be a complete list)
  • American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 757-223 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the North Tower of the WTC complex
  • United Airlines Flight 175, a Boeing 757-222 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the South Tower of the WTC complex
  • American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757-223 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the Pentagon
  • Fires were observed in the North Tower of the WTC complex after the impact of American Airlines Flight 11 and continued to be observed until the collapse of the tower
  • Fires were observed in the South Tower of the WTC complex after the impact of United Airlines Flight 175 and continued to be observed until the collapse of the tower
Let's start there, and if we are in agreement, we can add on more.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything except the pentagon statement. We have never seen a clear video or picture of a plane hitting the pentagon. I think a plane did hit it, but with all the cameras pointing at the Pentagon, they can't show us something besides the crap they did.
 
Without Rights said:
I but with all the cameras pointing at the Pentagon, they can't show us something besides the crap they did.
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How many cameras?
Where were they located?
Who monitored the cameras?
What type of cameras, still/video?
How often did they record images?

Provide primary sources for all your answers.
 
Without Rights said:
Not according to the BBC.
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Citation?

Without Rights said:
And the instructors said they could barely fly a cessna.
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Citation?

Without Rights said:
Which India media reported had connections with US intel heads.
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Not relevant to the factual accuracy of the statement made.

Without Rights said:
Not originally, they showed up on the manifest later. FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN twice that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers."
Click to expand...
Citation?

Without Rights said:
CNN reports said "The tape has no soundtrack and a U.S. source said lip-readers had tried without success to decipher what was being said."
Click to expand...
Citation?

Without Rights said:
Mainstream media and a majority of Americans say that the confessions cannot be trusted because the CIA confession of waterboarding torture, and the fact that he has delusions of grandeur.
Click to expand...
Not relevant to the factual accuracy of the statement made.

Without Rights said:
The FBI says they have no evidence that OBL was connected to 911. That means that the video is suspect. It doesn'e even look like OBL.
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Citation?
 
Without Rights said:
I can agree with everything except the pentagon statement. We have never seen a clear video or picture of a plane hitting the pentagon. I think a plane did hit it, but with all the cameras pointing at the Pentagon, they can't show us something besides the crap they did.
Click to expand...
I made no mention of videos/pictures of the events. I stated
American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757-223 aircraft, was observed crashing in to the Pentagon
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Do you agree that it was observed, or not?
 
DavidJames said:
How many cameras?
Where were they located?
Who monitored the cameras?
What type of cameras, still/video?
How often did they record images?

Provide primary sources for all your answers.
Click to expand...

No, that's ignorant. Everybody knows there were cameras pointed at the Pentagon.
 
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