Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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Why do you keep harping on Iowa?
Because it's the bigfootery's Achilles Heel. Why not accept Iowa sightings? Because it's Iowa, as Kathy puts it.
He had three encounters. The one you mean was near Estacada, Oregon, which is near the edge of the Mt. Hood National Forest. From the photos it doesn't look high. Note the trees.
Well, look at that. It looks as though there was some type of avalanche there. I'm noting the trees. Did you note the trees in VIM habitat?
Takes sightings of some sort first, doesn't it? "Discovery" before DNA. A "standard" investigation should have happened in Northern California in 1967, but it didn't. Still waiting.
Sightings aren't required prior to obtaining a type specimen. What type of investigation do you think should have happened and why?
 
Why not the whole first part?
I think it's because you're more interested in a biased presentation of information in such a way that you think supports a case for bigfoot. Sorry, but JMHO.
What? They're in the forests, not the alpine meadows and windswept slopes.
I think you're contradicting yourself:


"He was seen by different tribes on the other side of the island," she said. But it surprised her that the creature has been spotted so low in elevation. She speculated that the beast may have been driven into lower elevations by a lack of precipitation in the mountains over the past couple of months.

"It surprises me that he was seen so low," she said. "He may be looking for water."
There's a little matter of food supply.
Come again? We're talking about traditional reference to sasquatch habitat by a First Nation tribe of Vancouver Island. Cougars, wolves, golden eagles, bears, and humans hunted the marmots. What's the food supply matter?
You know of sightings on Vancouver Island then?
Yes, cadborosaurus and ghost sightings, too.
There are plenty of reports of sasquatches being out of their waters, so to speak. The Silver Star photos may show one above timberline, but that doesn't mean that's the usual habitat.
What are their waters and how did you determine that? Is Iowa part of their waters?
I saw that, but decided not to post it.
Not very supportive, was it?
 
I am also a former NYPD investigator, who worked on the Unusual Occurances Reports division and it's archives, and who personally was involved in many strange and sometimes harrowing and frightening operations.
Hi, Tony. Welcome to the JREF. Can you tell us more about the NYPD's Unusual Occurances Reports division and some of your many strange and sometimes harrowing and frightening operations? Thank you.
 
If it is true, as far as it being an "officially documented sighting".....I think we can absolutely RULE OUT a misidentification of a bear.

I wonder what else it could have been??? :confused:

Why, Slippery, if it isn't a bear, it MUST be a bigfoot!

Oh, and I see you're still fuzzy on the concept of "reliable evidence", even after I painstakingly explained it to you.

Oh, and would you mind telling me if you admit to beign wrong on our word-play issue ? Or may I simply assume that you're lying about it ?[/QUOTE]
 
I've already posted nine consecutive Titmus casts and more Laverty photos:
 

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Because it's the bigfootery's Achilles Heel. Why not accept Iowa sightings? Because it's Iowa, as Kathy puts it.

Iowa has wilderness and the sightings appear to be near rivers:

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Iowa.gif


Why is this an Achilles heel? You could harp on Kansas for awhile.

Well, look at that. It looks as though there was some type of avalanche there. I'm noting the trees. Did you note the trees in VIM habitat?

The area is volcanic. It's more likely a young lava flow. There was a similar formation on my land. My land was on the slough off Greenleaf Peak and Table Mountain that moved the Columbia a mile to the south 8-900 years ago. Neither peak is especially high (I didn't see any Alpine meadows). There was plenty of talus at 4-500' and many huge boulders near the lake at 1100'. Some were reddish, indicating heat. I suspected the lake was in an ancient crater, but never got it checked.

These outcroppings aren't unusual; they don't have to be on slopes and they're quite stable. Correa could probably tell you more.

They tend to be surrounded by dense forest.

Sightings aren't required prior to obtaining a type specimen.

Wouldn't someone normally see it while collecting the type specimen, at least in the case of mammals?

You were talking about identification, I was talking about discovery. Seems most large mammals were discovered long after the local people knew bout them.

What type of investigation do you think should have happened and why?

The sort Roger Patterson expected, with scientists swooping down on the area because he obtained photgraphic evidence. Don Abbott, curator of Archaeology at the Royal British Columbia Museum, had almost succeeded in getting zoologists to look at the trackways found months earlier. There was a group of animals in the area leaving prints and being seen; science might at least have been curious.
 
Second, I don't think that's a logging road in the report.

"ENVIRONMENT: It was on a mainline logging road at the bottom of a mountain side that consists of rock bluffs and patchy timber. The surrounding forest consists of mostly 2nd growth fir with a river and bridge just beyond the sighting location."

Do you remember a recent east coast report from Duncan of a bigfoot in a strawberry field?

No. Did I say there aren't any reports from the east coast? Evidently there are more from the wetter, heavily forested west coast.
 
My toes don't seem to change position all that much, unless I step on something, or dig in for grip. Maybe a little splay on hard surfaces with a hard push-off.

Patty apparently never pushes off, even when her heel digs in.

Must be that unique foot that has only made that one print.
 
In the following link I'm seeing a wild population for Vancouver Island marmots as 'roughly 50'.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/news-vimarmots.html

I think it's just ridiculous to suggest that with all the efforts to conserve the VIM, researchers are somehow missing any sign of sasquatches. I'm wondering now the worth of embarrassing myself by mailing Andrew Bryant to get his thoughts on sasquatch.

Go ahead. We don't know whether they're missing sign or not.

You might want to keep it short and to the point. ;)
 
Sightings aren't required prior to obtaining a type specimen.

Wouldn't someone normally see it while collecting the type specimen, at least in the case of mammals?

Not necessarily. New species of rodents have been discovered in standard small mammal live traps. A field researcher is studying Rodent X, and all of a sudden Rodent Z shows up in the trap. It was never observed before becoming the type specimen.

You were talking about identification, I was talking about discovery. Seems most large mammals were discovered long after the local people knew bout them.

Your use of "discovery" is about scientific description. Historically (and to a great extent today) scientific descriptions were coming from an entirely different society and culture than that of "local people". Moreso, science was largely a Western pursuit. When you think about the "discovery" of gorillas, okapis, etc., it was from a time when the local people were not scientists and had little or no connection with the scientific community. Expeditions were sent from the West to acquire and describe the actual animal. That does not need to be done as much now because these regions have resident or nearby scientists.

I know that Bigfooters tend to liken the history of big mammal discoveries to that of Bigfoot. But there is a great difference between the present status of Bigfoot and what happened with those other famous mammals. The most striking difference is that nobody can confirm Bigfoot no matter who they are, or where they are coming from. That didn't happen with gorillas, okapis, etc. It appears that Bigfoot only exposes himself to local people. When professionals (who could easily acquire DNA from hair, saliva, etc.) go to Bigfoot territories they do not bring back evidence of their presence. Even "hotspots" yield nothing at all.

This brings me back to that question I asked last month. Do all Bigfoots live in some remote valley that nobody ever goes to? IOW, do Bigfoots make walking forays away from their permanent residence - leading to sightings away from where they are based with nobody actually finding their base.

What type of investigation do you think should have happened and why?

The sort Roger Patterson expected, with scientists swooping down on the area because he obtained photgraphic evidence. Don Abbott, curator of Archaeology at the Royal British Columbia Museum, had almost succeeded in getting zoologists to look at the trackways found months earlier. There was a group of animals in the area leaving prints and being seen; science might at least have been curious.

Patterson only would have gotten his wish if so many scientists thought the film was authentic. It seems quite clear that important scientists and scientific institutions saw the PGF and decided it was a hoax. You do not launch a field expedition after that. But nonetheless, countless numbers of Bigfoot hunters have gone looking for the animal. All have come back with no kind of biological specimen. The scientific community can look at the long history of people intentionally looking for BF, biologists working in BF country, and everybody else who goes into the forest - and see that the animal really does appear to be a myth. The situation in the late 60's (after PGF) is the same as it is now. Very few people thought that the PGF was authentic. Very few think it is authentic now. If the PGF ever were to serve as the "spark" for a professional field investigation, the principals must already believe that it is authentic. It would be a waste of time, money and human effort to launch any expedition to find out if the film is authentic, rather than deciding that the film is authentic and then launching an expedition to acquire the animal that was filmed by Patterson.
 
Since we're challenging another bigfootery myth here, I'll just go ahead and quote LTC and myself.

You two should really apply some critical thinking to that work. Tube has shown he can produce pouring lines by using a dessicant. He has not proven that's what happened that day on Onion Mountain. For Chilcutt to call a ridge a dermal ridge, it has to have the characteristics (Galton details):

http://www.policensw.com/info/fingerprints/finger08.html

Where are those on the test casts? Where's the silica in OM soil?

DY examined a copy that is not true to the original and consulted experts who looked at his pictures for seconds (he timed them).

The Skookum cast has been scanned and digitalized, very clear pictures have been taken and experts gave their opinions after very thorough examination of the original.

But we've been over this before.
 
Since we're challenging another bigfootery myth here, I'll just go ahead and quote LTC and myself.

You two need do do some critical thinking on the work. What does making pouring lines in a dessicant prove? Or a cursory examination of a copy that doesn't match the original?

In order for Jimmy Chilcutt to call a ridge a dermal ridge, the characteristics (AKA Galton details) have to be present.

http://www.policensw.com/info/fingerprints/finger08.html

He studied Dr. Meldrum's casts in the lab for three days, then took some home with him for further study.

He has a copy of the Skookum heel. Rick Noll assured him there could be no casting artifacts on the SC (Rick is an expert in casting).
 
W: Now, okay, so you then gave up . you took the plaster tracks . How deep were these tracks by the way, in inches? . Inch and a quarter or .

B: Some of them were down as far as three and a half inches deep into the softer soil. These particular ones we took here were, weren't quite so deep because they were flatter tracks.

Indeed....Roger only cast the "flatter" tracks...

Now if my foot went down even one inch into the soil, I think I would be walking funny, dragging my toes, and making a mess of my own tracks when I pulled my feet up out of the soil.

Imagine trying to walk with your feet sinking into the soil 1,2, or 3 inches.
 
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