Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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To address a few of LTK's trackway points, the trackway Jeff Meldrum examined near Walla Walla showed the animal had paused and turned. Jeff has an anatomically correct butt print in his collection apparently made when a female sat by Dry Creek. The Bossburg casts taken by the dump may be from prints made by a standing animal. There are a couple of fist prints that have been cast, one associated with a short line of 14" footprints, as well as a hand print cast by Bob Titmus in a pond where the animal apparently leaned over to drink.

Patterson and Gimlin observed a lengthening stride, indicating the animal ran after the filming. I've read a report of a stride indicating running, 10', as I recall, but I don't remember which trackway.

And of course the Skookum cast shows feeding positions identical to that of a gorilla filmed by Rick Noll.

Casts would seem to show more than simple walking.
 
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And of course the Skookum cast shows feeding positions identical to that of a gorilla filmed by Rick Noll.
With one small difference.. The film doesn't show the gorilla getting up or laying down with the acrobatic skill that your alleged Sas must have employed..


Oh, and one other thing .. The cast looks just like an elk lay ..

post-1242-1155303134_thumb.jpg




I just skimmed through one of my favorite threads again ...

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=15671

It's interesting to see who was left standing...
 
kitakaze wrote:
If you want to have conversations on topics that clearly illustrate the fallacies of the beliefs of those involved and for it not to be commented on elsewhere by those with an interest in the subject then clearly that is the right of those who do so.
Certainly, however, it does much to discount an ability to take the views of those people at face value. JMHO.

What a joke.

Skeptics present a false appearance of open-mindedness.
"just give us some GOOD evidence..."
"if you had MULTIPLE witnesses at a Bigfoot sighting..."
"...let us SEE what you have to say about Bigfoot evidence...and maybe we'll give it some more credibility"....

Yeah, right!! Sure you will! :boggled:

I've talked quite a bit here, openly, about Joyce and her daughter's purported Bigfoot sighting.....and it's been assessed by our local skeptics as worthless, paltry evidence.

Despite the fact that the reported conditions of the sighting were...

In daylight....at close range....for a good minute or two....with two witnesses.
And then you can add in her phone call to a total stranger, years after her report was filed, with her story being fully supported by her husband.

So, it doesn't matter what skeptics get for Bigfoot evidence........anything short of PROOF is simply meaningless, and carries NO weight whatsoever...in their "open-minded" assessment of the evidence.
 
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BTW, now that I've had time to look at your links, Kitakaze (I found one on my own), I've noticed there's about a 100 Marmot difference in the population estimates between them, so which population studies should be considered accurate?

(I'll understand if you don't get back to me right away.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/article...d/20070324212609990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001 )
Whew! That was not fun! Anyone who checked Lu's link there would have seen that we had somewhat of a large earthquake here in Japan. The fact is, as most people know, we get hit all the time by rather scary earthquakes and just recently there was a huge one in the Pacific that had our spankin' new kick-ass tsunami warning system going nuts. This particular earthquake has caused one fatality so far and about 170 injuries. It was in an area not usually associated with such quakes and I do have family not far from where much of the damage occurred but I'm happy to say they are fine. We remained unaffected in terms of damage here in Tokyo. We have violent earthquakes all the time and it's just a fact of life but it is hard to forget sometimes that it's a matter of when, not if, we will be hit by the next city-destroyer. My father was actually in Kobe the day before the Great Hanto Earthquake that destroyed much of that city. All you can do is just try to be prepared as possible (and maybe make a trip to the shrine for some woo woo prayer).

Anyway, LAL, thanks. I'll check the links again but I'm going to guess that you might have missed something. This is Canada's rarest species and one of the rarest mammals in the world and you don't 'oops, we missed 100 animals'. Which specific links was it?
 
Skeptics present a false appearance of open-mindedness.
"just give us some GOOD evidence..."
"if you had MULTIPLE witnesses at a Bigfoot sighting..."
"...let us SEE what you have to say about Bigfoot evidence...and maybe we'll give it some more credibility"....

I see you're still fuzzy on the concept of "reliable evidence", even after I painstakingly explained it to you.

Oh, and would you mind telling me if you admit to beign wrong on our word-play issue ? Or may I simply assume that you're lying about it ?
 
I said I hadn't caught up with the thread. I did have time to read the Wikipedia entry and the first thing that struck me was the altitude. There was a similar discussion on Mountain Goats.

I'm reminded of the Yeti expeditions that looked above treeline instead of in the montane forests.
Why is that? That is no way to describe Vancouver Island marmot habitat or the field research of it.
Iowa would not be my first place to look if I wanted to have a sighting. The whole state has fewer sightings than average counties in western Washington and Oregon. Why are people in Iowa less likely to lie, hallucinate and misidentify sasquatch-wise than people in the PNW?
Regardless, Iowa may not be your first choice but with the number of sightings reported (35 on BFRO's list) it doesn't make it a bad choice either, if you believe those reports.
For Vancouver Island we only need to look at what's habitat in the PNW.
I think you are incorrect on this point. We only need look at any place where bigfoot is consistently reported, not just the PNW.
Avalanche-prone slopes? Alpine meadows? Hardly.
Now that you've read the links you know that this is the VIM's natural habitat, not only habitat. Nor, by any means is it the only place that field researchers are scouring. Nevertheless, are you implying that sasquatch reports do not come from Alpine meadows and avalanche-prone slopes? Where was Glen Thomas' reported encounter again?
See above. I'll try to read the rest of the links when I have time. A predator can certainly move out of its preferred habitat for a short time in search of prey, but they don't live in an unsuitable niche.
In the links you'll see that much of the VIM predations were made by animals not out of their preferred habitat.
No I didn't. The stay put comparatively speaking in that one individual doesn't range over hundreds of miles. They stay in colonies. I would have had no problem locating Pikas in Washington once I found out what was making those weird calls, but casually spotting one is an occurence that happened to me exactly once. Pikas use boulders too.
Comparatively to what? They don't just stay put in their colonies, they move. When they do researchers observe very precisely where, when, and why they move. From the air and from the ground. You really should have a good look at the slideshow I linked.
Did any of your links say specifically Marmot researchers have found no evidence of sasquatches?
You'd think they'd let us know if they did.
Got your copy of Meldrum's book? On page 41 he talks about George Cuvier asserting in 1825 it was doubtful any new large four-footed animals remained to be discovered. Cuvier discovered the Red Panda in 1826. A series of discoveries followed as naturalists acted on travellers' tales and native knowlege of the local fauna.
Not yet. Hmmm... red pandas? That's nice. You'd think an 8ft bipedal primate roaming all over the continent and claimed to be seen by many people monthly would have been catalogued by now.
That's not the information I asked for.
Ooooh yes it is. You asked about the standard methods that new species are identified. It's all there. If you've changed your mind then I know you're more than resourceful enough to supply your own answers.
 
Originally Posted by LAL
Got your copy of Meldrum's book? On page 41 he talks about George Cuvier asserting in 1825 it was doubtful any new large four-footed animals remained to be discovered.
So, just because someone asserts something, ( in 1825 no less.. ) it is somehow astounding when they are shown to be wrong ?


I would love to be wrong about Bigfoot.. Show me I'm wrong ..
 
Incidently, the name for sasquatches in the Nuu-chah-nulth language is "cacuuqhsta". Hupacasath First Nation elder Jessie Hamilton said that sightings are not unheard of, but are usually confined to the west side of the island.

Regarding a sighting in 2002, she said:

"He was seen by different tribes on the other side of the island," she said. But it surprised her that the creature has been spotted so low in elevation. She speculated that the beast may have been driven into lower elevations by a lack of precipitation in the mountains over the past couple of months.

"It surprises me that he was seen so low," she said. "He may be looking for water."
Why not quote the next and last sentence of that story?:
Local conservation officers said they had received no reports of Sasquatch sightings to date.
So, as you can see the cacuuqhsta is traditionally associated with the areas you are arguing against. Nevertheless, if you knew Vancouver Island like I do you would know that sightings are not usually confined to the west side of the island.

Speaking of west side, from my favourite getaway spot on Van Isle:

Bigfoot by Tofino?
 
two cents worth

Hi All,
my name is Tony, I'm new here.

I'd like to add something that goes back to page 34 or abouts.
The Adirondaks in New York aren't the only place in New York a "big hairy creature" was reported historically. In Putnam County during the Revolutionary War, there was an "officially" documented sighting.

General Putnam and the Commander of a British unit BOTH had to order a cease fire during a combat, because and this is paraphrasing of the reports:
"A large hair covered creature unlike a bear in that it walked on two legs as a man, did traverse the flanks of the opposing forces. The British Commander halted his men from firing and soon so did General Putnam. So frightened and
"devil struck"(my quotation marks) were both sides that immediately they retreated. No further hostilities were pursued that day"

I found this story when I was doing a local public access cable channel show of my own(called "Doc Danger"--dedicated to Skeptical examination and congenial in attitude de-bunking of para-normal, aimed at both kids from 8 to
early teens, and adults with a sense of wonder and awe at the mysteries of our world)
I was amazed that my home area of a state not regarded for being ripe with beasties and such, had a documented(in military reports) occurance of a
beastie like a "Big Foot".

I am of course, not a paid professional para-normal invesitgator; I pursue this as a life long hobby/interest. I AM a licensed "private eye"(newly licensed)
in Florida(with reciprocity in 11 other states, including California--nice opportunity to get paid by a research group to investigate the north!)
I am also a former NYPD investigator, who worked on the Unusual Occurances Reports division and it's archives, and who personally was involved in many strange and sometimes harrowing and frightening operations.

As to "Doc Danger",I did the tv show at first, to impress my daughter, but afterwards purely for fun.

Today I do any work requested me, from people needing the "legally regulated services" of a P.I. as described in Florida Law, AND am working another deal with a local public access chanel for another version of my old show.

Thank you for reading this, hope some of you respond!
 
Why is that? That is no way to describe Vancouver Island marmot habitat or the field research of it.

I wasn't describing it. I was just remembering Bryne's comments on the Slick expedition and Sir Edmund Hillary's failure to find Yeti in the snow. Peter told me about the 250 Sherpas and said no self-respecting Yeti would have come near them.

Regardless, Iowa may not be your first choice but with the number of sightings reported (35 on BFRO's list) it doesn't make it a bad choice either, if you believe those reports.

Considering Skamania County probably has the largest population and my chances of seeing one when I lived there were pretty good and I still didn't see one, I'd say Iowa would be a waste of my time.

Why do you keep harping on Iowa?

I think you are incorrect on this point. We only need look at any place where bigfoot is consistently reported, not just the PNW.Now that you've read the links you know that this is the VIM's natural habitat, not only habitat. Nor, by any means is it the only place that field researchers are scouring. Nevertheless, are you implying that sasquatch reports do not come from Alpine meadows and avalanche-prone slopes? Where was Glen Thomas' reported encounter again?

He had three encounters. The one you mean was near Estacada, Oregon, which is near the edge of the Mt. Hood National Forest. From the photos it doesn't look high. Note the trees.

rocks.jpg


http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/hewkin.html

In the links you'll see that much of the VIM predations were made by animals not out of their preferred habitat.Comparatively to what? They don't just stay put in their colonies, they move. When they do researchers observe very precisely where, when, and why they move. From the air and from the ground. You really should have a good look at the slideshow I linked.You'd think they'd let us know if they did.Not yet. Hmmm... red pandas? That's nice. You'd think an 8ft bipedal primate roaming all over the continent and claimed to be seen by many people monthly would have been catalogued by now.


Yes, you'd think so.

Ooooh yes it is. You asked about the standard methods that new species are identified. It's all there. If you've changed your mind then I know you're more than resourceful enough to supply your own answers.

Takes sightings of some sort first, doesn't it? "Discovery" before DNA. A "standard" investigation should have happened in Northern California in 1967, but it didn't. Still waiting.
 
Meldrum's assertion that sasquatch has a mid-tarsal break in it's foot is far more ridiculous than that 1825 expression of doubt about large 4 footed animals.

You're an expert in primate foot anatomy now?
 
Why not quote the next and last sentence of that story?

Why not the whole first part?

So, as you can see the cacuuqhsta is traditionally associated with the areas you are arguing against.

What? They're in the forests, not the alpine meadows and windswept slopes.
There's a little matter of food supply.

Nevertheless, if you knew Vancouver Island like I do you would know that sightings are not usually confined to the west side of the island.

You know of sightings on Vancouver Island then?

There are plenty of reports of sasquatches being out of their waters, so to speak. The Silver Star photos may show one above timberline, but that doesn't mean that's the usual habitat.

Speaking of west side, from my favourite getaway spot on Van Isle:

Bigfoot by Tofino?

I saw that, but decided not to post it.
 
I'd like to add something that goes back to page 34 or abouts.
The Adirondaks in New York aren't the only place in New York a "big hairy creature" was reported historically. In Putnam County during the Revolutionary War, there was an "officially" documented sighting.

General Putnam and the Commander of a British unit BOTH had to order a cease fire during a combat, because and this is paraphrasing of the reports:
"A large hair covered creature unlike a bear in that it walked on two legs as a man, did traverse the flanks of the opposing forces. The British Commander halted his men from firing and soon so did General Putnam. So frightened and
"devil struck"(my quotation marks) were both sides that immediately they retreated. No further hostilities were pursued that day"

First, welcome to the forum, Tony.

You wouldn't happen to have a (preferably primary) source for that, would you? Because it sounds like a spurious newspaper story, with the fake old-timey language, and not a military source.
 
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