PS Audio Noise Harvester

TjW said:
JREF forum members like to help people make fewer mistakes.
Click to expand...
What do you think will happen if you correct every mistake a person does? Imagine if food magically appeared on the table every day and suddenly stopped because you aren't alive anymore... First you are being nice and then everyone suffers the consequences. Which is more evil? A) Letting thousands die from starvation so they learn from their own mistakes to keep the evolution going, or B) Saving everyone you can just so they can all get extinct at the same time, just because it made you feel better about yourself.

Doing A by force is still less evil than doing B by force. People who lack the proper intelligence will never understand that because they can't think far ahead.

There are people who when they die they want to take everyone else with them because all they think about is themselves. They have made themselves believe that they are special. Delusional people like that will always exist and I'm not going to change that, because I accept all possibilities.
 
Last edited:
Well, I have to admit I've only read the first and last pages of this thread. I had hoped to learn more about how the Noise Harvester is supposed to work, or even find a schematic. If someone gives me a schematic, I can simulate it on PSpice and see if it really does something.

But for now, I'll ask ES some simple questions:

1. How does this thing work?

2. What is the audible effect?

3. Can the audible effect be detected in a double-blind test?

Question 1 is important because I've read the claims from PS Audio and they are demonstrably false. Still, just because they are liars doesn't mean their device is worthless (it is very likely to be worthless, or at best, equivalent to many other types of line filters). So go ahead, ES, tell me how this thing operates. I have a MS in electrical engineering as well as a great deal of experience in aerospace power electronics (switching supplies, filtering, surge suppression, etc.) so don't worry about dumbing it down for me. If you have a schematic or some simulation results to illustrate the operating principles, that would be great. For now, my guess is that the LED could function as a snubber across the coil in the circuit. Snubbers are used across relay coils to suppress the voltage kickback when the relay is de-energized, so the idea is not exactly new. I'd need to look at a schematic to be sure, though.

Question 2 is a standard question any skeptic should ask, what exactly is claimed for the device? The device claims to filter out high-frequency noise generated by devices such as light dimmers which doesn't not seem to be a very extraordinary claim to me. But if the device 'increases bass', then that would be extraordinary, especially since even PS Audio does not make that claim. They claim their device reduces noise, and the device is not intended to increase bass.

Question 3 is, of course, a question avoided by real audiophiles. However, Extreme Skeptic should not be afraid of double-blind testing because he is able to hear a real effect. Of course, an experienced recording engineer knows that it is possible to hear a 'real effect' from sound processing equipment, even when the equipment happens to be out of the signal chain! The effect of 'hearing' something that isn't actually there is very real, and is something smart recording engineers need to watch out for. Of course, true audiophiles won't admit that such an effect exists, but thankfully, Extreme Skeptic is not an audiophile.

Anyhow, I'm willing to play along with Extreme Skeptic for a little bit. If he can answer these questions three, then an audiophile he will not be!
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Yes, there is no point in changing the truth to fit your own needs so you can live in an ignorant dream world. All possibilities already exist and will always exist. If an audiophile lives in placebo there is no point in converting him because someone else will just take his place. It's like in a ranking list in a sport, if you remove the #1 on the list what do you think will happen? You will keep going on forever until the sport is dead. You need to know the end result before you try to convert someone. Since there is no end in existence it's an eternal waste of time.

Skeptics only try to convert someone to make themselves happy, they are selfish.
Everyone are selfish; doing something for someone else only to feel better about yourself is still selfish. Nobody wants to do something that harms yourself, unless that makes you feel better later on...

I have entered the cave of the trolls to keep them busy with me instead of letting them out to harass the other people. That way they will have time to find the truth on their own instead of being forced by the evil trolls.
Click to expand...

Well, entering the cave of the trolls seems rather pointless. If a sceptic wants to live in an objective universe with verifiable results there is no point in distracting them. Others will just take their place, because pragmatically, it's a successful worldview. It's like in a ranking list in a sport, if you remove the #1 on the list what do you think will happen? You will keep going on forever because everyone likes being #1, and more people will come into the sport because the current competition will have been removed. You need to know the end result before you try to distract someone.

I think you only do it to make yourself happy. Yes, you're that selfish and self-centered.

Personally, I believe you ought to take up a hobby that requires a more physical interface with the universe. I can recommend hang gliding and soaring from personal experience. But skydiving, whitewater canoeing or bouldering would probably have a similar effect. There's something about relying entirely on one's own understanding of the universe, and knowing that the universe will impassively allow you to die if you make a mistake, that focuses the mind wonderfully. It probably isn't the same as trance music, though.

But since there is no end in existence, you surely have nothing to lose.
 
bjb said:
Question 2 is a standard question any skeptic should ask, what exactly is claimed for the device? The device claims to filter out high-frequency noise generated by devices such as light dimmers which doesn't not seem to be a very extraordinary claim to me. But if the device 'increases bass', then that would be extraordinary, especially since even PS Audio does not make that claim. They claim their device reduces noise, and the device is not intended to increase bass.
Click to expand...
Removing AC noise from entering the component improves the performance of it, it's pretty obvious. Drinking dirty water still makes the human body function but it doesn't function as good as with clean water.

PS Audio doesn't say the bass is improved. I found these reviews I never saw before, many say bass gets better:
http://www.psaudio.com/products/popupQuotes.asp?productID=102


Questions 1 and 3 aren't important. They are just a temporary distraction from the truth.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Removing AC noise from entering the component improves the performance of it, it's pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

Not really. It may improve the quality of the output, if it was degraded by the noise in the first place, but only by removing the noise, not by improving part performance.

That is the silly thing about all theis noise stuff; it is very easy to find out if your system is disturbed by noise. If it is, if you can hear noise on the system, then yes, noise reduction should be implemented, but if you can't hear any noise, the system won't benefit from further attempts at reduction.

Drinking dirty water still makes the human body function but it doesn't function as good as with clean water.
Click to expand...

A rather crappy analogy, but let's use it anyway: So if you filter the water, analyze it, and find it clean, will there be any benefit from further filtering?

PS Audio doesn't say the bass is improved. I found these reviews I never saw before, many say bass gets better:
Click to expand...

Yes, but then that is what they always claim, whether its noise harvesters or fancy volume knobs. In fact, it is one of the claims that makes least sense in the context of noise: You just might imagine some way that an influx of RF noise (wich could be inaudible) could affect linearity, but there is no way it could affect bass reproduction, which is mainly dependent on frequency reponse, the amplifier's ability to handle low impedance loads, and, of course, speaker properties.

Questions 1 and 3 aren't important. They are just a temporary distraction from the truth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we already noticed you haven't got a clue.

Hans
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Drinking dirty water still makes the human body function but it doesn't function as good as with clean water.
Click to expand...
That is very funny, since you what to use the water filter idea. All water that I drink goes thru, (the word is THRU) the filters at the water treatment plant. You are trying to use a filter that is on your neighbor’s kitchen sink faucet.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
That is very funny, since you what to use the water filter idea. All water that I drink goes thru, (the word is THRU) the filters at the water treatment plant. You are trying to use a filter that is on your neighbor’s kitchen sink faucet.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...
Imagine a pool of dirty water, and then there's a water treatment plant that constantly removes the dirt from the water and puts the cleaned water back. You would get the same result if you selectively remove the dirt from the pool itself, that way you don't need to remove any water from the pool and you have more water available. Noise Harvester does that, it is tuned to remove high frequency noise from the AC wiring while keeping power available to the audio system. It uses the high frequency noise as energy and converts it to light.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Not really. It may improve the quality of the output, if it was degraded by the noise in the first place, but only by removing the noise, not by improving part performance.

That is the silly thing about all theis noise stuff; it is very easy to find out if your system is disturbed by noise. If it is, if you can hear noise on the system, then yes, noise reduction should be implemented, but if you can't hear any noise, the system won't benefit from further attempts at reduction.



A rather crappy analogy, but let's use it anyway: So if you filter the water, analyze it, and find it clean, will there be any benefit from further filtering?



Yes, but then that is what they always claim, whether its noise harvesters or fancy volume knobs. In fact, it is one of the claims that makes least sense in the context of noise: You just might imagine some way that an influx of RF noise (wich could be inaudible) could affect linearity, but there is no way it could affect bass reproduction, which is mainly dependent on frequency reponse, the amplifier's ability to handle low impedance loads, and, of course, speaker properties.



Yeah, we already noticed you haven't got a clue.

Hans
Click to expand...
You think everything goes through and nothing gets affected in the path? Magically the noise from the AC wiring enters the speakers because they are connected? Electrical signals from the cables entering the speakers don't output electrical signals from the diaphragms. Energy is never destroyed, it is just converted. Just because it is noise at first doesn't mean it always stays that way.
With your way of thinking if you use the breaks on your car the asphalt doesn't heat up.

AC noise entering the power supply gets converted. The noise doesn't magically disappear. The conversion process of the noise reduces the performance of the power supply which leads to worse sound.
It's the same with cables, the longer the wiring is the weaker the signal gets. Because energy is converted to heat from the dielectric.
 
Last edited:
ExtremeSkeptic said:
Imagine a pool of dirty water, and then there's a water treatment plant that constantly removes the dirt from the water and puts the cleaned water back. You would get the same result if you selectively remove the dirt
Click to expand...

BULLLL Sh....tttttt, if you what to drink that water, go right ahead, as for me I will do it the right way, you just keep showing how much you think like religious people defending the bible as the word of god.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
I don't use a primitive form of communication as my native language. Where I come from we don't use 5 senses for communication, we use only 1. If we were talking in my language everyone in this thread would have already known the truth.
Click to expand...
What's the 1 sense and what's the language? Do you work?
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
AC noise entering the power supply gets converted. The noise doesn't magically disappear. The conversion process of the noise reduces the performance of the power supply which leads to worse sound.
It's the same with cables, the longer the wiring is the weaker the signal gets. Because energy is converted to heat from the dielectric.
Click to expand...
Well if you would read on how to build a power supply, wait a minute, you did read books, never mind, and you already did. If that so-called toy works (ha ha) what to hell makes you think that a power supply can't do the same thing. And cleaning it up with that toy will not clean it up where you equipment is, that is plan and simple facts of the universe, oh, again you don't read books, never mind, your are back on ignore.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Well if you would read on how to build a power supply, wait a minute, you did read books, never mind, and you already did. If that so-called toy works (ha ha) what to hell makes you think that a power supply can't do the same thing. And cleaning it up with that toy will not clean it up where you equipment is, that is plan and simple facts of the universe, oh, again you don't read books, never mind, your are back on ignore.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...
Imagine a water slide. The water starts running down from the top and ends up in a pool of water. If the water remains clean when it gets to the bottom then there isn't a problem. But what if there are people urinating into the water slide at different places? You can either remove the people, or you can put a bucket nearby which collects most of their urine before it spreads out.
It's the same thing with AC noise, the components themselves are the ones polluting the line. You can either unplug all of them, or you can use a Noise Harvester to collect the noise before it gets spread out to the AC wiring.
 
Paulhoff said:
http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...on-in-cables-debunked/?searchterm=Dielectrics

For you people here that can read and like books etc, here is a site that seems to be fairly good one, for an audiophile site they know BS from the truth.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...
People who lack the proper intelligence hide their stupidity behind fancy language that not many understand.

Audioholics is a cult made for skeptics with tin ears who want to feel better about themselves. I read that website before I started this hobby. They didn't succeed in brainwashing me, but apparently they succeeded with people in this thread. It's like a drug, first you start with something small and then you move up to something stronger, eventually you end up at this forum.
 
Last edited:
Paulhoff said:
BULLLL Sh....tttttt, if you what to drink that water, go right ahead, as for me I will do it the right way, you just keep showing how much you think like religious people defending the bible as the word of god.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...
You are talking about yourself but can't admit it. You have made yourself believe that incomplete knowledge is true just because it is repeatable. But it is never true, you need to measure everything at once instead of parts of it. Measuring each part separately and then adding them together doesn't work. That is what skeptics do. It isn't the proper way to understand how something works.

In the future it is the skeptics who will be inferior because they try to understand how something works by using science alone. It just doesn't work. In the future they will call it a mental disorder, mark this post!
 
The ignore function is so nice, you see that they posted but don't see their post.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
bjb said:
3. Can the audible effect be detected in a double-blind test?
Click to expand...
Yes.

I plugged the 3 Harvesters back in. But this time I moved them to another circuit in my room. The bass got so big it makes me sick! Everything sounds louder and fatter. I didn't change anything in my system, it's the same volume.
The difference is far bigger than all my double blind tests I have done, I scored 99.99% in one of them, and the difference in that test was very subtle. Noise Harvester really makes a big difference, even when plugged into another circuit.

I moved around the Harvesters in my apartment and noticed that the noise doesn't come from my apartment, it comes from the neighbor!
 
I have to say, I'm a little curious about these double-blind tests. You would have required at least two assistants: one to set up the environment by either installing the Harvesters or not for each trial, and another to be the experimenter, who must not be aware of the set up at any time.

In order to score 99.99% on any test, you would have to correctly identify the correct option 9,999 times out of 10,000.

This seems very rigorous. Perhaps you should document it and submit it for peer review.
 
blokey said:
This seems very rigorous. Perhaps you should document it and submit it for peer review.
Click to expand...
Peer review, with people he thinks don't know anything because they read books, and really know things, no way.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
Peer review, with people he thinks don't know anything because they read books, and really know things, no way.

Paul

:) :) :)
Click to expand...
I think you're getting old, Paul. With advanced science, you can peer-review your own work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom