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Visa express program: Just another coincidence?

busherie said:
That is why ask if it's just another coincidence. Was this program, on the contrary, accepted on purpose? - facilitating the work of the terrorists?
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If you honestly were asking instead of accusing you would have answered the question I asked you long ago. You are a woo and a charlatan.
 
busherie said:
No, it was not that clear in the 1990s Al Qaida was capable to strike in the US (which is a lot more dangerous than having attacks abroad). And designing a program does not mean political will to implement it, especially when the context has changed and you start getting all this intel saudis wanna hit "in US".
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Um, 1993 WTC bombing sound familiar?

You're out of your depth, that's all there is to it. Just looking for an excuse to complain.
 
busherie said:
No, it was not that clear in the 1990s Al Qaida was capable to strike in the US (which is a lot more dangerous than having attacks abroad).
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Of course they were. The U.S. contains a great variety of people who enjoy great freedom of movement. And don't forget that bin Laden was one of the funders of the cell that tried to destroy the twin towers in 1993.

Too late. Mackey is wearing his quick-draw serape.
 
busherie said:
And what if he had, by any chance, succesfully stopped the attacks? It was not sure at the time that the air force could not shoot the planes down.
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At the time, it wasn't clear how many planes had even been hijacked. There was nothing to do at this point until the situation could be assessed and it was determined what was happening.
 
WildCat said:
At the time, it wasn't clear how many planes had even been hijacked. There was nothing to do at this point until the situation could be assessed and it was determined what was happening.
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Wow...bushboy changes the focus yet again. Think he should try a different tactic otherwise he gets boring pretty quick.
 
busherie said:
Wait, of course not. i'm pretty sure he was in the PEOC well before 0958; probably 0920.



I maintain it: it's obviously a very suspicious coincidence that this program could be implemented in this context and in this contry.

No, it was not that clear in the 1990s Al Qaida was capable to strike in the US (which is a lot more dangerous than having attacks abroad). And designing a program does not mean political will to implement it, especially when the context has changed and you start getting all this intel saudis wanna hit "in US".

Not really "an inside job" since the job was undertaken by the terrorists. Allowing it to happen, that's what the neocons (to simplify) did.

This has nothing to do with isolationism. You go from an extreme to another.

ETA and IRA are completeley different issues: are they "determined to strike in the US"?

Busherie
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With your logic, anything the government may warn you about is really a plan by them to do what they are warning you about, right? So you know, if the IRA was dangerous to the US, then your suspicious that the government is immediately behind the threat, right?

This crap is debunked before it even comes out your friggin mouth. How you believe this is suspicious is unreal.

Go do your homework and get to bed. Kids should not be up so late.

* slaps forehead *
 
Gravy said:
Why are you unable to figure that out? Saudi Arabia was a major ally and trading partner. The U.S. knew of problems with the Saudi passport office for years but didn't do anything about them.

So was the Clinton administration seeking to allow terrorists in?

Well?

Anyway, the only thing the U.S. consular offices did in terms of terrorism was to check names against a watch list. The same watch list was used in the express program. The terrorists who entered the U.S. weren't on that list. Five other conspirators were denied visas for different reasons. How does any of this help your claim?

It was horrible.
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It was horrible, nobody ever said the contrary. No foreknowledge and will to use it to implement an agenda then? (just to be sure)

hellaeon said:
* breathe *

Mr Busherie, you think life in the world of politics (and in general it seems) is just yes or no. Entirely planned. No surprises.

Rather then rational that 9/11 was done by cunning terrorists, you think its more logical the US Government or NWO or Jews or whoever the plonk decided to spend years and years and years planning this ultra project, costing trillions of dollars, in doing so, implemented purposeful plans like the visa one for no other reason then to aid 20% of the 9/11 terrorists to get in the country. Though they setup this visa plan 20 years before, in case people like you may (wow your such a sleuth!) discover a link between its implementation and 9/11! But little did they know! your so cunning too! Forget tourism, trade, international agreements...no no...it was part of the ultra scheme, uncovered by people like you! Let me guess, they put explosives in the concrete in the towers?

Don't waste my time with such stupid straw clasping. Look at yourself in the mirror and be ashamed.

Then walk out the door, breathe some air and see life exists outside a monitor or TV.
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If you had read a few posts, you would see I'm not MIHOP.

The World is indeed complicated. Only neocons think the world is black or white, evil or good. That's why they suck so much.

Obviously trade, tourism with Saudi Arabia played a role in the implementation of that program. But it never should have been implemented. Not given the level of the threat. That's why we can be suspicious here.

Anyway, you're right. I must get out and change my ming.

It was interesing debating with you.

Good night.

busherie
 
busherie said:
It was horrible, nobody ever said the contrary. No foreknowledge and will to use it to implement an agenda then? (just to be sure).
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:eye-poppi

You mean you've had suspicions that I may actually be a really, really subtle truther?
 
I guess since bush moron isn't going to answer I can satisfy others curiosity. As said in US News And World Report, security was a concern of the state department. Besides the environment RedTail pointed out, it was foremost on the minds of the government what had taken place in north Africa (two embassies suicide bombed by Al-Qaeda). Later in the same US News article it was said that the visa express program would minimize lines at the consular offices. What does that have to do with security? All that was done was taking a potential target of attack and minimizing the potential civilian targets. But the sad fact is woo will only mention the bad and minimize or ignore everything that doesn't fit in their preconceived world view. I say screw em :)
 
busherie said:
And what if he had, by any chance, succesfully stopped the attacks? It was not sure at the time that the air force could not shoot the planes down.
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Wow. Ok, by the time Bush was sitting there dazed and confused, WTC 1&2 had already been hit. IF he had done something to stop Flight 77 then he's seen as the guy who can make the tough decisions giving "them" a stronger position.

Now Where are you getting this info on Card holding up a sign saying "Don't move" And WHY would they let Bush just sit there?
 
busherie said:
Surely this is a stupid solution. I think the US have gone so far in the wrong diection they have forgotten the real roots of terrorism.

There is a solution against terrorism. It did not always exist, it can disappear. the roots are well-known:

- misery, unemployement
- the fact that the US and western governements support governments that are undemocratic and mistreat their people: Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc etc
- the israelo palestinian conflict that is a cancer and moral breeding ground for misled young people from these countries.

And we CAN tackle these issues. I mean, just think about the infamous amount of money spent on this stupid wars.

Of course there wil always be some crazy people like OBL, but I can tell you they wouldn't have followers if we took care of the real issues.
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We did away with the guy in Iraq, or a murder we use to do business with not count. Saudi, they give everyone a car and a house! Mistreat, Please mistreat me.

War, you wanted to get rid of bad guys, WE did. It seems you are mixed up to the max.
 
busherie said:
It was horrible, nobody ever said the contrary. No foreknowledge and will to use it to implement an agenda then? (just to be sure)



If you had read a few posts, you would see I'm not MIHOP.

The World is indeed complicated. Only neocons think the world is black or white, evil or good. That's why they suck so much.

Obviously trade, tourism with Saudi Arabia played a role in the implementation of that program. But it never should have been implemented. Not given the level of the threat. That's why we can be suspicious here.

Anyway, you're right. I must get out and change my ming.

It was interesing debating with you.

Good night.

busherie
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First off leave Ming out of this. He is a lord and even if you think your flash gordon, you wont beat him a second time.

Secondly, fine - MIHOP LIHOP BEEBOP TREEHOP SLOPSLOP. Stop throwing terms about as if your some special branch of science. All these acronyms are a foundation for the same crap. You believe the government did 9/11, you change your tune based on how people around you accept what you say or determine how crazy you might be, because you too know its crazy to think these grand theories.

Third, neocons think the world is black and white? Whats a neocon? And coming from he who think the plan was implemented to aid terrorists in attacking US soil but not for any other reasons.
 
From the US News article:

Of the 15 hijackers who obtained their non-immigrant visas in Saudi Arabia, the U.S. official says, 11 received them before the Visa Express program was put into place, in June.
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A fourth suspected hijacker, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, received his visa after the Visa Express program was started. The U.S. official says the man was "a walk-in" at a State Department office in Saudi Arabia and was apparently interviewed by a consular officer.

The official says that the names of the four men--and the names of all the hijackers who obtained their U.S. visas in Saudi Arabia--were run through the State Department's CLASS database (for Consular Lookout and Support System). The database contains regularly updated records and intelligence information on foreign nationals. "There was no derogatory information in the files,'' the official said.
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So all of the hijackers who came through Saudi Arabia were vetted by the same method- a "watch list" database in which none of them were linked to anything suspicious. Apparently the consular interview which 11 of them would have gone through had no magic power to spot potential terrorists.
 
Ming: lol :)

that's one point for you.

I'm afraid that's the only one.

And yes, you are a very very subtle LIHOP, even though you don't know it yet. (would that owe me a nomnination?)
 
Wow, bad memory, it was fleischer, telling "don't say anything yet"

In the back of the room, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer catches Bush’s eye and holds up a pad of paper for him to read, with “DON’ T SAY ANYTHING YET” written on it in big block letters. [Washington Times, 10/7/2002] (Note that three articles claim that Bush leaves the classroom at 9:12 a.m.) [New York Times, 9/16/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; Daily Mail, 9/8/2002] However, a videotape of the event lasts for “at least seven additional minutes” and ends before Bush leaves.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...tles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

Sorry about that.

But it's roughly the same idea.
 
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