Dreams and their "meanings."

[autumn1971]

Seems that dream interpretation has quite a bit in common with astrology, any image can mean many different things, can be good or bad, can be right or wrong, and must be heeded. Not impressed.
I think that almost all the narrative flow of dreams is invented when we try to remember them. I can give a basic narrative to most of my dreams, but it involves a conscious patching together of non-sequiturs.
I guess we all recall dreams directed by Spielburg, but I suspect most of our dreams are actually directed by Lynch.

 

[This Guy]

Dreams are strange things.

I once dreamed I was a hot dog chasing a donut. *

I did dream I could fly, when I was a child. Guess I was about 6 or so. The old Superman TV show was my fav at the time, and I SO admired Superman. Fighting for Truth, Justice, and The American Way!

The dream was so vivid, when I got up the next day, I actually thought I could fly!

So, I went outside (with red towel tied around my neck of course, you can't be a REAL super hero without a red towel around your neck!), and tried to fly off the back porch.

It worked! I flew!

It was limited to only one direction though, and unfortunately, that direction was down. But still......


* OK, so I stole that line from Woody Allen. It's one of my favorites though

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

Well I doubt there's anything relevant in dreams anyway, but I can't do any experiments. As I said, I remember dreams once in a blue moon. Sleeping for me is basically the part of my day where I stop existing for several hours. As I said earlier, I usually go for several months on end between dreams, as far as my memory is concerned.

I would think that the interpretation is subjective, but you never know. At least I know my one, that bothers other and not me, only arose the same time as my current medical condition. Coincidence, perhaps. - we'll see, well I will and Crazycowbob, as we dream communicate. Next week we will try that crazy thing called subliminal telepathy. Or astral projection, providing my clothes remain attached as I depart my mortal body.

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

I'm game Would be an interesting thing to chart, I used to keep a log (mostly for art/story ideas, dreams are good for that!), wouldn't be a problem to start again.

Good, you can be my dream side kick. I get to wear the cape though and the mask. OK you can stop thinking like that, I'm not Hannibal lecture, I 'm his older sister

This Guy, you're forgiven, only as you have a cute avatar, unless that is you then you're forgiven ten fold.


autumn1971, probably. Will it kill to work it out? I doubt it. Far too much dismissive than hands on getting dirty and scrubbing out for the truth. I agree with Lynch but can you ask him to get out of my dreams. He disturbs me, while I'm eating.

 

[noblecaboose]

If you deny a spiritual world,

I denied no such thing. If you wish to make this claim, please back it up with evidence.

then Yes you will deny that your dreams mean anything even vivid repeating ones that are definitely spiritual....

A logical conclusion, but how is its spirituality definite? Prove to me that such a thing is indeed "spiritual." While you're at it, please define "spiritual" as I am not sure what you mean by that. Perhaps I use a different word for the same quality that you call, "spiritual." Vague terms do not help your argument and will not convince me that I am wrong in any way.

And so you will resort to misfiring neurons as your solution and random chance and luck etc. etc.

I did not say this was a "solution," I merely suggested it as a possible explanation that current scientific evidence has offered. I also said nothing about "luck." Please do not put words into my mouth.

The choice is yours....or you can find out what the dream really meant.... and act accordingly.

You did this sentence backwards. Offer me an alternative, then tell me to make a choice. It makes no sense to tell me I have a choice to make, then say there is an alternative to making a choice. I'm also curious about your use of ellipsis. Why the dramatic pause? It doesn't really fit with the rest of the sentence.

For dreams with interpretations

SEE http://www.geocities.com/goddess_trixie2000/DreamsandVisions.html

Thank you for providing me with a link, however I fail to see how one person's interpretations of dreams has anything to do with me. Are these interpretations supposed to apply to all people? I think dreams are very personal. Even if there is any point in interpreting them, what makes you think that this interpretation is the correct one for me? I appreciate your attempt to support your point of view, but backing up a claim with another claim does not help you.

I could post about such things, but my posts would be deemed spiritual and moved to the religion board whereas yours which show misfiring neurons are deemed sceintific and valid, even though they will produce no sane results from misfirings.

Why do you feel the need to belittle my point of view? Nobody in this thread has attacked you. You use the vague term "spiritual" again and what of these "sane results"?
This sentence is unclear. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Do you mean that you would offer me more advice, but you are witholding it because you think I won't listen? Perhaps you are afraid that you will be attacked for being a troll? Are you actually concerned that seeking answers from science will yield some sort of harmful results? Why are you harping on "misfiring neurons"?

Did I insult you somehow by suggesting that there might be a rational, scientific interpretation of dreams? It was not my intent to do so. If seeking absolute spiritual wisdom from your dreams works for you, I have no argument. I have read books about such things and they offered me nothing, even when I was willing to believe them. I also believed in fairies, ghosts, evil spirits, tarot cards, psychics, guardian angels, God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Since then I have found, through my own rational search for meaning in my life and in the universe, that there is no evidence that can support such beliefs. This doesn't mean I think anyone else's belief in them is wrong for them. If it helps you live a better life, then good for you. You will not find ridicule from me.

However, I can't speak for everyone on this forum. I'm sure most will ignore you, some will ridicule and others will try to convert you.
As for me, I see the world how I see it. You probably don't see it the same way and I see no need to change your view.

 

[noblecaboose]

So I had the dream again, only this time there was a moment when I stopped and thought, is this a dream? So I did the old trick where I try to hurt myself (banged my head against a pillar) and I succeeded (ouch). For the rest of the dream, I was convinced that I was really losing my tooth. I was again disoriented when I woke up but this time I was disappointed that I had not lost my tooth.

Another thing has crossed my mind since starting this thread, do dreams have any connection to false memories?
In my dreams I will often remember something that didn't happen or I think, after I wake up, that it might have happened in another dream, though I can't remember ever having a dream about it.
In the last few years before my grandmother died, she had very elaborate false memories. She would talk about things that never happened or remember things drastically different from how they actually happened. I thought that maybe she was having trouble making sense of what was going on around her and somehow her brain was filling in the gaps with something that made sense to her.

Perhaps whatever goes on in the brain during sleep doesn't make sense to the conscious mind, so it fills in the gaps with something that does make sense. This could mean that there is something to the way we interpret things. Maybe by interpreting dreams we can learn more about the way the conscious mind interprets things. I think that interpretation may be combination of factors like wishful thinking, fears, memories from wakefulness and anything that leaked through during sleep.

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

Interesting tangent. Are you sure her memories were incorrect. I remember something as a child, but listening to the horde, they have different versions of the same event. As I have the scar I remember it very well indeed. Which version is correct and which are false?

So, your dream is recurring. You know what the interpretations say. Is there any link to whittle down the root cause?

 

[Dancing David]

I took Introduction to Psychology in college and I remember learning about Freudian interpretations of dreams. Before that, I used to look in books about dream interpretation (mostly from new-age bookstores, my favorite childhood hangouts) for explanations. Never once did I read a believable interpretation or corresponding dream image to the one I described in the above paragraph. It was always supposed to mean, "Fear of loss of physical beauty," or something stupid like that. For me, the tooth loosening is almost never a source of anxiety in my dream, but one of annoyance, discomfort and frustration. When it is finally yanked out, I'm usually relieved. In high school, a friend suggested that the loose tooth dream meant that I felt the need for change and new growth. This is the only interpretation that ever rang true for me.

The best book I have read, and it has been over twenty years since I have read dream books, is the Dream Game by Anne Faraday. It is sort of couched in woo terminology, especialy when she talks about the Younger Self.

The major points she makes is that not all dreams are significan (Just the ones that leave you will an emotion you recall strongly) and that sualy the message in the dream is stored in a visual pun.

When i was a young man and had not processed the abuse I survived I had the following dream. There are two puupets on a stage much like a Punch and Judy box used by street preformers. One of them yells and screams at the other and then urinates on them. The visual pun is this "It is better to be pissed off than pissed on", which told a lot about unhealthy coping skills I had.


That is rather typical of tghe puns, more recently when I was being abused by my supervisor at my last job I had the following dream, I am an adult and in a preschool situation I decided that I need to defecate and poop on the floor and consequently on my leg. There are two messages "Don't take this *fecal matter*", and "Don't crap on yourself".

Now other significant dreams are more staight forwards.

But look for the visual puns.

 

[noblecaboose]

Interesting tangent. Are you sure her memories were incorrect.

In this case, what she remembered was often the exact opposite of what really happened. For instance, my mother called her four times a day and she would tell other people that it had been four weeks since hearing from her or, several times, her doctor told her one thing and she would say that he said something completely different. Still another time, she claimed that my father was "down in the lobby, wearing a hat and cape, just twirling around," when at the time he was in London, no hat and cape, not twirling. When told this could not possibly be true, she only became more adamant that she wasn't lying, that my mother had told her this (also not true) and after conceding that she might be mistaken, repeated the story to someone else later. She had some pretty serious dementia, which may or may not have been worsened by the chemotherapy she was going through.

So, your dream is recurring.

Yes, I said it was recurring in my first post.

You know what the interpretations say. Is there any link to whittle down the root cause?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I am seeking an explanation that does not necessarily involve using someone else's pat interpretation. I already said that I interpret it to mean that I am craving change.

Have I mentioned that the sensation of losing teeth in the dream is a pleasant one, much like when I was losing my baby teeth? I miss the sensation of having a loose tooth, as a child I would wiggle them until I could rip them out. Losing teeth meant I was growing up, getting closer to adulthood and therefore independence. I doubt that it means any different now. When I have the dream I often feel powerless or stifled in my life.

While I appreciate peoples' intentions in trying to help, I would like to emphasize that I was not asking for an interpretation in the first place, i.e. that wasn't my initial question. However, I am still curious about the neurological processes going on and I wonder, is there's any point to dream interpretation, or is it just random? Do my dreams offer any real insight in the dream itself, or is it my own wishful thinking that leads me to interpret them in the first place? Is it woo or science?

 

[Dancing David]

Some dreams are meaningful, some are not. Some dreams involve the forming of associations and the reconstruction of memory. Some dreams are total nonsense.

 

[Crazycowbob]

Good news everybody!

I had a dream this weekend, and think it might have correlated to things that have been going on in my life.

Unfortunately...as I sit here righting this, it has suddenly occured to me that I can't for the life of me remember a thing about it, and I forgot to write it down in my journal. Instead of progressing this project, it seems I have only increased my post count. Wish me better luck tonight!

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

However, I am still curious about the neurological processes going on and I wonder, is there's any point to dream interpretation, or is it just random? Do my dreams offer any real insight in the dream itself, or is it my own wishful thinking that leads me to interpret them in the first place? Is it woo or science?

In truth, no idea. Does the interpretation lead to the answer, again I have no idea if they do or do not. Are the interpretations correct, debatable, subjective, yes. Is it science or woo, verdicts out and is sitting on the fence with me and crazycowbob.

As I said, I'm willing to go out on a limb and see my dream through. It arrived when my medical ailment arrived. Once that is fixed , in theory the dream should also disappear. If it doesn't then its back to square one and start again. That doesn't help you, but it may do for me. Time will tell.

If I had the answers I would yell them at you. Sometimes you have do work it out for yourself, or follow some weird tangent. Simply there maybe no answer. All I can add to that is, look for anything that may be a clue , if there isn't, Them there isn't one - I just don't know. Getting grouchy with me won't help. All that will do is make me batter and deep fry you until golden brown; and serve you on a crisp bed of lettuce with a lemon vinaigrette dressing.

As for your Gran, that sounds more like dementia than false memories. Something I also know very little about. I've seen dementia in a person and its scary.

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

Good news everybody!

I had a dream this weekend, and think it might have correlated to things that have been going on in my life.

Unfortunately...as I sit here righting this, it has suddenly occurred to me that I can't for the life of me remember a thing about it, and I forgot to write it down in my journal. Instead of progressing this project, it seems I have only increased my post count. Wish me better luck tonight!

Good grief! Men can't do anything right. Simple job of remembering a dream and they forget it. Pah men, useless and should all be served up in a variety of dishes!

Strange I remember my dreams in detail, even to the gnawing of the... honeycomb I dreamt I was eating last night.

 

[Dancing David]

Good grief! Men can't do anything right. Simple job of remembering a dream and they forget it. Pah men, useless and should all be served up in a variety of dishes!

Yay, a recipe thread!

It takes just a little effort to remember dreams, there is the dream state, then there is the recall upon waking, then there is keeping a journal right by the bed.

Strange I remember my dreams in detail, even to the gnawing of the... honeycomb I dreamt I was eating last night.

Well my best friend used to use casteneda shamanism to control his dreams and have dream "pitching and catching" with all the men he found attractive.

 

[SomeGuy]

If you deny a spiritual world, then Yes you will deny that your dreams mean anything even vivid repeating ones that are definitely spiritual....And so you will resort to misfiring neurons as your solution and random chance and luck etc. etc.

The choice is yours.... or you can find out what the dream really meant.... and act accordingly.

For dreams with interpretations

SEE ..... (link removed because it won't post...)

I could post about such things, but my posts would be deemed spiritual and moved to the religion board whereas yours which show misfiring neurons are deemed sceintific and valid, even though they will produce no sane results from misfirings.

I don't believe just posting on topic about a spiritual alternative explanation gets you moved to another board, but I could be wrong.

According to you we have the possibility to find what our dreams really mean.

Given that dream interpretation as a guide for action is only feasible if the interpretation is unambiguous, please help us with the following practical problems.

1) Which of the many different systems used to interpret dreams is the real one.
2) How has this system been shown to be superior to the other systems. Which evidence/research has proven it to be the definite system for dream interpretation.
3) With so many wrong systems around, do you think you aren't seriously risking people's fate if you tell them to follow their dream interpretations without showing them which system to use?
4) How do you explain that time and time again, dream interpretation seems to fail under serious scrutiny?

The link you post is interesting in that this woman with her dream interpretations also has spoken to faeries in the forest, and has personally engaged succesfully in ESP.

But what is perhaps most interesting about her page is that the 2004 dream called "Angel predicts end of time" has had it's interpretation removed. This leads me to think that perhaps she has wrongfully predicted the end of time then removed this discrediting statement. This would indicate that the woman is not only deluded but actively deceitful.

Not the best of sources if you wish to lend credibility to your argument.

P.S. Predicting the end of time doesn't sound very out of place to me for this woman, a lot of what she's saying makes her sound like one of the Rapturians!

 

[aggle-rithm]

I find all this dream and dream interpretation just a bunch of twaddle.

If I am not dreaming of food, I am dreaming of food and Barry Manilow or Oliver Reed. Although last night I dreamt I discovered a new form of amoeba. I was pleased about it.

Go ahead interrpt that, make my day.

The amoeba represented Oliver Reed.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Does anybody know of any actual peer-reviewed scientific research that has focused on dream interpretation? Something like a study that attempts to show that patterns in dreaming can be correlated to current life events by studying populations of people that are undergoing similar life events and taking detailed accounts of their dreams.

Research these days concentrates on the form of the dreams rather than the content. This can tell us much more about what's going on in the brain (for instance, the weirdness of dreams that occur during REM sleep indicates that the cognitive functioning is partially inactivated).

A lot of scientists think that dreams do contain valid symbols, but they don't symbolize anything we don't already know.

 

[aggle-rithm]

In the last few years before my grandmother died, she had very elaborate false memories. She would talk about things that never happened or remember things drastically different from how they actually happened. I thought that maybe she was having trouble making sense of what was going on around her and somehow her brain was filling in the gaps with something that made sense to her.

People with memory problems often confabulate. This is most dramatic in Korsakoff's syndrome, where the victim has intact long-term memories that were created before the disease took hold, but has been unable to create any new memories since, and is unable to remember anything that happened more than a few minutes ago. "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat" by Oliver Sacks describes two such victims; one being very quiet and somewhat depressed, the other manically creating a new reality for himself from moment to moment.

One of the problems with dreams is that it is very easy to confabulate when you are trying to remember details of a dream. Memories of a dream are more unreliable than waking memories, perhaps partly because they make so little narrative sense that the dreamer may try to "force" it into a proper narrative and make up details in the process.

 

[aggle-rithm]

There is one question I've always had that nobody has answered adequately. Why would our minds code our dreams? What is the point in dreaming about loose teeth when you are really thinking about sex? Why not just dream about sex itself? Whenever I dream about that, my mind doesn't sugar coat it, hide it, or generate some ambiguous symbolism (at least not that I am aware of).

One of the areas where Jung broke with Freud was that he believed symbolism was a mindless mechanism rather than an attempt to "hide" anything. He believed that the function of the unconscious was to compensate for imbalances in the psyche by producing symbols that were the opposite of what was going on in the ego. While this was more parsiminous than Freud's theory, it had just as little evidence to support it.

Even more parsiminous is the idea that the brain generates random activity during sleep and the frontal cortex attempts to interpret the activity, usually "plugging in" recent memories to fill in the gaps. Since cognitive functions are impaired during dreams, the images are fluid and often bizzare, although strangely familiar at the same time.

 

[Corpse Cruncher]

The amoeba represented Oliver Reed.

No, he was holding my hand as I discovered the cute little thing. I miss my amoeba dream, that was very fulfilling in a hippy-hazy state. Fancy discovering one, in your beer in a jazz club. Well at least I was eating anybody.