Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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It doesn't seem too hard to find them for some folks. Here we have 2 or 3 of them who interacted with humans for a couple of hours. In the Eastern US yet, where sasquatch is scarce.

Herding sounds a bit ominous to me.....

Summary: On this expedition indicative sounds were heard each day within a five mile radius of the base camp. On Saturday night a group of thirteen (13) participants said they were approached and intimidated by 2-3 sasquatches on a trail along a tributary of the Greenbrier. The incident lasted 2 hours. During the encounter there was one brief Class A sighting by Patty Lee (NC-BFRO) when the headlamp of Olof Seaman (VA-BFRO) briefly illiminated a large sasquatch as he (Olof) moved along a trail back towards his group. Those who were present came away very excited (some were slightly traumatized) by the encounter. They were unanimously adamant that the sasquatches were trying to keep them "herded" together, by skillfully throwing large rocks in the paths of those who tried to separate and move away from the group. After two hours the activity ceased.
 
belz wrote:

No....I stated it...quite plainly.

Pray tell, what exact percentage of probability of bigfoot does a single track give us ?

Given the number of tracks seen so far, what's the probability of bigfoot beign real ?

Boy, if it worked like that, why, homeopathy would indeed be considered a genuine form of medecine. After all, all those satisfied customers MUST be worth at least 0.01% each. Millions of them ? 100%, easily. :rolleyes:

"Evidence" does not necessarily EQUAL "proof"...or ""knowing".

Here's a tough question for you, belz....WHO said it does?

I'm starting to see the reason of Kitakaze's frustration with you.
 
It doesn't seem too hard to find them for some folks. Here we have 2 or 3 of them who interacted with humans for a couple of hours. In the Eastern US yet, where sasquatch is scarce.

Herding sounds a bit ominous to me.....

LOL - almost sounds like a hunting practice.

Summary: On this expedition indicative sounds were heard each day within a five mile radius of the base camp.
What do sounds indicative of Bigfoot (Sasquatch here) sound like?

On Saturday night a group of thirteen (13) participants said they were approached and intimidated by 2-3 sasquatches on a trail along a tributary of the Greenbrier. The incident lasted 2 hours. During the encounter there was one brief Class A sighting by Patty Lee (NC-BFRO) when the headlamp of Olof Seaman (VA-BFRO) briefly illiminated a large sasquatch as he (Olof) moved along a trail back towards his group.
The inference here is that one of thirteen people saw a Sasquatch (and "briefly"). The others had no sightings but assumed that what they had been told by the Olof was true. There is also no mention of sightings beyond the first, possibly inferred, though, because of where rocks were thrown from. Also, were rocks definitely thrown or were they near a rocky area where rocks could be eroding away from a rockface and falling?

There just seems to be alot of magician-style misdirection here - a situation that Olaf and a helper or two could have easily engineered.

They were unanimously adamant that the sasquatches were trying to keep them "herded" together, by skillfully throwing large rocks in the paths of those who tried to separate and move away from the group. After two hours the activity ceased.
Are there previous reports of Bigfoot/Sasquatch using tools? If so, how? In my little knowledge of animal behavior (experts, feel free to correct me), animals don't do anything like this without a reason. Every expenditure of energy means that they have less left for the hunt or everyday survival. So why would they "herd" these people and then just up and let them go? Is there evidence of a nest nearby or anything like that?

The thing that heightens my skeptical spider-sense is when one of two situations occurs - many people agree on the same story with no specific description and when few or one person has a detailed account with no corroborating evidence.

I don't know the background of this report, but it says that these people were on an "expedition" and they heard "indicative" sounds of Bigfoot/Sasquatch. Though not stated, this infers that the expedition was looking for Bigfoot. There are several things from this point on that just make no sense if these people were specifically out there with this goal in mind.
  • If you hear something and go out looking for it, you don't stay clumped in one big group of thirteen - you fan out prodigiously and see what there is to be seen. They shouldn't have been close enough together to have been herded in the first place.
  • Where are the rocks that were thrown? Do Sasquatch have identifiable prints? Could epithelials have been gathered as is mentioned by a previous poster? Where they gathered?
  • After the incident, was the area cordoned off to look for corroborating evidence? Were photos taken of the scene?
  • Was their a more descriptive report detailing the location, time/date, weather, and other circumstances involved?
I think that if Bigfoot researchers want the support of the scientific (and skeptic) community, they need to conduct themselves in a scientific manner. This is what the above account sounds like to me: "We were taking a nice hike when all of a sudden one of our people said that they saw a Sasquatch! We freaked out and heard rocks hitting nearby for two hours. When it was over, we breathed a sigh of relief and went back to camp." How does that help support their claims in a scientific manner?

A sighting doesn't help their claims one iota from a scientific viewpoint - corroborative evidence is necessary.
 
Field biologists and botanists work in the winter as well. Everything science "knows" about winter ecology comes from scientists working directly in the field in winter. Snow is a near-perfect substrate to study animal presence, behavior and ecology because it is a kind of recording medium. Systematic surveys can be conducted using tracks in snow to reveal what is going on with non-hibernating animals. It must be an ideal situation for finding a Bigfoot, as opposed to looking in other seasons. Anyone could walk right past the path of a walking Bigfoot in summer, but not in snows. Are field scientists working in winter just plum unlucky when it comes to finding Bigfoot? Why don't trail cameras ever take a picture of Bigfoot?

Cloaking devices. Hides the tracks, too.
 
belz wrote:
SweatyYeti wrote:

Quote:
"Evidence" does not necessarily EQUAL "proof"...or ""knowing".

Quote:
Here's a tough question for you, belz....WHO said it does?
I'm starting to see the reason of Kitakaze's frustration with you.

Looks like "belz" is the next name to be added to the list of skeptics who can't answer questions in a debate!

It happens on a regular basis here, and on the BFF, with skeptics....and ONLY with skeptics.

Note:
kitakaze will now respond and point out the fact that I've been ignoring one of his questions, for quite a while now.
I'll answer it VERY soon......me promises. :)
 
I'm starting to see the reason of Kitakaze's frustration with you.

JREF Bigfoot skepticism jumped the shark when it decided to feed this troll on a daily basis. I simply cannot understand why even a single keystroke is wasted on this kid. :confused:
 
belz wrote:
Pray tell, what exact percentage of probability of bigfoot does a single track give us ?

Given the number of tracks seen so far, what's the probability of bigfoot beign real ?
There doesn't need to be an exact percentage.

In analysing evidence....a high probability, or a low probability would suffice.
 
William Parcher wrote:
I simply cannot understand why even a single keystroke is wasted on this kid.
William won't be answering any of my questions, either.......I fear.

That's o.k. I'll add his name to the growing list. :rolleyes:
 
William won't be answering any of my questions, either.......I fear. That's o.k. I'll add his name to the growing list. :rolleyes:

Don't fear it little boy; embrace it. I desperately want to be on your list, and I cherish the thought of never engaging you. When you can knock down skeptics like that, Bigfoot comes to life. :rolleyes:
 
Oh...Oh...BTW.....

I didn't think skeptics would have a very good reaction to that excerpt from Wikipedia.

It's "attack the messenger" time! :)

One more tough question for belz:
Do you still think evidence has nothing to do with probabilities?
You had written:
Evidence indicates possibility, not probability,
 
Field biologists and botanists work in the winter as well. Everything science "knows" about winter ecology comes from scientists working directly in the field in winter. Snow is a near-perfect substrate to study animal presence, behavior and ecology because it is a kind of recording medium. Systematic surveys can be conducted using tracks in snow to reveal what is going on with non-hibernating animals. It must be an ideal situation for finding a Bigfoot, as opposed to looking in other seasons. Anyone could walk right past the path of a walking Bigfoot in summer, but not in snows. Are field scientists working in winter just plum unlucky when it comes to finding Bigfoot? Why don't trail cameras ever take a picture of Bigfoot?

Well, what I stated was we (meaning the forest service). I'm sure there are ecologists / biologist that work in the winter, but we (FS in the Sierras), start crews when the snow melts and run them until it snows again. I'm not sure we have species that we are tracking (on the Threatened and Endangered Species list) that require snow surveys.

I'm not sure, personally, what a bigfoot does in the winter, but if they were out, yes footprints should be more easily seen.

Can you make citations of this?

Wildlife Biologist working for the FS

Wildlife biologist

There are a couple more that I can't seem to find...but I'll keep looking.

Study of what?

A long term study in the area of historical sightings...during the day, food resources could be cataloged or survey done for prints, hair, etc., setting up trap cameras or whatever other high-tech stuff is out there and at night doing whatever you could to bring one in. If after a year, you got nothing...there you go!

You begin anywhere you want. If you look at the sighting reports, Bigfoot is just about anywhere at any time. There is no need to go deep into the wilderness, because so many are seen in the vicinity of civilization. It happens mostly to "common folk" who aren't even expecting it. So given that fact, you might be greatly overthinking your search strategy.

I don't think sightings happen anywhere at any time.

But spotted owls are real animals. Finding out exactly where they live is secondary to the known fact of their existence. It is completely ridiculous to fund a "survey" of Bigfoot range or ecology before the animal is even known to be anything other than a myth.

I don't think I suggested that funds be allocated to "survey" for range or ecology; what I meant by survey was finding the creature (I apologize...I tend to use terms that are archaeological...survey to me means physically being out in the field looking for something).

Bigfoot should be in great danger of poaching (if killing one would be defined as poaching). A dead Bigfoot should be worth an enormous amount of money to anyone who shoots it. It is inexplicable why this has not happened already.
It does seem strange, doesn't it? The few that have stated to have shot one always seem to a) claim they buried the evidence or b) the animal got away. I have never dealt with a witness who made that claim, and honestly I wouldn't believe them if they did.
 
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Note:
kitakaze will now respond and point out the fact that I've been ignoring one of his questions, for quite a while now.
I'll answer it VERY soon......me promises. :)
Well, you know, I hate to disappoint so now that your attempting to master the obvious maybe you can acknowledge that your ignoring more than a few.

There doesn't need to be an exact percentage.

In analysing evidence....a high probability, or a low probability would suffice.
Hmmm... high probability or low, weak evidence or strong? Hey, I can answer that. Low to the first and weak to the second. Can you, Sweaty?

Oh...Oh...BTW.....

I didn't think skeptics would have a very good reaction to that excerpt from Wikipedia.

It's "attack the messenger" time! :)

One more tough question for belz:
Do you still think evidence has nothing to do with probabilities?
You had written:
Tissue for your woo-gasm? Why do you ask more questions you think are tough when you persist in dodging tough ones to you?

Oh, I understand. Sweaty thinks he just rocked the house while people continue to confront his weak coffee peddling. Anyhow, I'm a dirty skeptic and I've got some bigfoot snares to sabotage and some trailcams to break. Suppressing bigfoot is hard work, you know? That's what bigfoot skeptics are here for, after all.
 
I just read your post on the study and I think your point is very valid.
I was hoping you would. That you think so is an example of you being objective where BF related matters are concerned. It really is unfortunate and telling that ongoing efforts concerning the VIM fail to detect any evidence of sasquatch in what has been reported to be one of their prime habitats.

BTW, from the first wildlife biologist link, you didn't find this...
I did not take an active interest or pursuit, as I was uncertain of what I think I really saw; I am skeptical by constitution; not only for mythologies, but in general.
...to be of note?
 
To be of note? Oh yes, I'm the one who interviewed him...on several occasions...plus the people he told when he got back to the office (some of my report appears to no longer be available to the public...no doubt to punish me in someway).
 
HM, I'm curious if you were conducting witness interviews for the BFRO before or after your own Bigfoot encounter.
 
..........Snow is a near-perfect substrate to study animal presence, behavior and ecology because it is a kind of recording medium. Systematic surveys can be conducted using tracks in snow to reveal what is going on with non-hibernating animals. It must be an ideal situation for finding a Bigfoot, as opposed to looking in other seasons. Anyone could walk right past the path of a walking Bigfoot in summer, but not in snows.

..................
This is an excellent point that I don't recall having seen addressed bfefore.. I'm going to run this by the gang over at BFF right now..

Stand by ...


Done..


http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=18121
 
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