Can this qualify as a challenge?

GzuzKryzt said:
PeaceCrusader, I tip my hat to you seeing this through by visiting Ms. Alvaran, even sacrificing a week's vacation. You do seem committed.
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I second that, GzuzKryzt. PC, your commitment to seriously testing this medium's claim is to be commended.

However, if your time and effort is not to be wasted, I strongly recommend that you take JackalGirl's excellent post to heart: make sure that both you and the medium read and understand the rules, and you both need to be very clear that you are prepared to accept a protocol which allows no possibility of cheating and which produces unambiguous results.

I hope you will have learned from the endless posts generated here by people debating the veracity of the spirit's previous predictions, how something which appears to you to be definitive evidence is not at all acceptable to others. Predictions regarding the contents of the sealed containers must be wholly unambiguous, or no meaningful test is possible.

BTW, even though the JREF Challenge is changing its rules after 1 April, there are other skeptical organisations around who may be prepared to administer a test of the medium's claimed ability along similar lines (although for a lot less money!).

Good luck, and enjoy your trip to the Philippines.
 
Dear GzuzKryzt and Fellow Forumers,

GzuzKryzt said:
PeaceCrusader, I tip my hat to you seeing this through by visiting Ms. Alvaran, even sacrificing a week's vacation. You do seem committed.

Starting April 01, 2007, the JREF Challenge will shift its focus from "laymen" to the "big names" in the psychic business. The announcement ("A Major Revision") was made here: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-01/011207challenge.html#i3
And a follow-up here: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-01/011907tam.html#i4

The two links will bring you up to speed. If you have any further questions, ask away.
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Thanks a lot for your help. I hope we beat the April 1, 2007 deadline. I called Mrs Alvaran this evening and informed her to fill up the application, have it notarized, and mail it to JREF as soon as possible.

I also informed her that my airline booking has been confirmed and I have paid the deposit today. So I will be seeing her in a few weeks time.

It seems that it is timely that I learned about this challenge before JREF closes the application from lay people. Hopefully, Mrs Alvaran with the help of the spirit will be able to win the prize money on offer.

Best regards,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
 
I just want to add that the changes to the JREF Challenge (make sure you read them) are not so much as to "close the application from lay people", but rather to act as a kind of screening process: after April 1, anyone applying will have to have some kind of public profile (again, read about the changes; the links were provided by GzuzKryst).

Jocky makes the extremely good point that there are other skeptical groups who offer their own prizes; in fact, if someone who is not "famous" actually wins one of those prizes, it makes that person eligible for the JREF Challenge.

PC, have you read the Challenge Rules and FAQ? Do you understand them fully, and understand the process? Does Mrs. Alvaran read English fluently?
 
Jackalgirl said:
I just want to add that the changes to the JREF Challenge (make sure you read them) are not so much as to "close the application from lay people", but rather to act as a kind of screening process: after April 1, anyone applying will have to have some kind of public profile (again, read about the changes; the links were provided by GzuzKryst).

Jocky makes the extremely good point that there are other skeptical groups who offer their own prizes; in fact, if someone who is not "famous" actually wins one of those prizes, it makes that person eligible for the JREF Challenge.

PC, have you read the Challenge Rules and FAQ? Do you understand them fully, and understand the process? Does Mrs. Alvaran read English fluently?
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JG, has it maybe dawned on you that PC isn't here to jump through any skeptics' hoops, or facilitate his girlfriend's doing of same?

A quick scan of his puerile posts will show that he takes every opportunity to regale you, and the rest of us, with his beliefs, for reasons only he can explain.

You keep on encouraging this BS, and that makes me suspect your skeptical credentials.

M.
 
Moochie said:
PC isn't here to jump through any skeptics' hoops, or facilitate his girlfriend's doing of same?
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This is a possible interpretation of his actions, but there is evidence which suggests otherwise. If he is actually taking a weeks' leave and flying to the Philippines (notice the "If", BTW), then you would have to concede that he is showing a significant degree of interest in hoop-jumping.

Moochie said:
he takes every opportunity to regale you, and the rest of us, with his beliefs, for reasons only he can explain
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You don't have to read his posts if you don't want to, you know ...

Moochie said:
You keep on encouraging this BS, and that makes me suspect your skeptical credentials
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What the [rule8] do you mean by "skeptical credentials"?? I think that by facilitating a properly-conducted exploration of reported phenomena under controlled conditions, JG is acting entirely in keeping with the scientific method.
 
Jocky, has it maybe dawned on you that PC isn't here to jump through any skeptics' hoops, or facilitate his girlfriend's doing of same?

A quick scan of his puerile posts will show that he takes every opportunity to regale you, and the rest of us, with his beliefs, for reasons only he can explain.

You keep on encouraging this BS, and that makes me suspect your skeptical credentials.

M.
 
Like I said in the past.... PC is BSing everyone. He has a high hope for the million moolas which he isnt going to get anyways.
 
You know, PC and this woman may qualify for the challenge under the new rules in any case. He has provided links to news articles featuring himself which may satisfy the JREF.
 
Moochie said:
Jocky, has it maybe dawned on you ... [snip] ... that makes me suspect your skeptical credentials
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Moochie, has it maybe dawned on you that I read, understood and responded to that post the first time, and that posting it again is a waste of bandwidth?

Your failure to address the substance of my comments might make me suspect your skeptical credentials - if only you could explain what you meant by "skeptical credentials" :p

Loss Leader said:
You know, PC and this woman may qualify for the challenge under the new rules in any case. He has provided links to news articles featuring himself which may satisfy the JREF.
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Good point, LL - it could be an interesting test of how JREF will apply the new rules. All the more reason to help and encourage PC to construct a valid challenge.
 
Burner said:
Not a single post that is not a flame.
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Today I saw a decently dressed man picking cigarette butts out of a public ashtray, so my meters are a little off:

Are you seriously stating that PeaceCrusader's OP is a flame?
 
Moochie said:
JG, has it maybe dawned on you that PC isn't here to jump through any skeptics' hoops, or facilitate his girlfriend's doing of same?

A quick scan of his puerile posts will show that he takes every opportunity to regale you, and the rest of us, with his beliefs, for reasons only he can explain.

You keep on encouraging this BS, and that makes me suspect your skeptical credentials.

M.
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As others have pointed out, PC has presented enough information (besides his conversations about prophesies, which I actually ignore for the most part) to indicate to me that he may actually be serious about pursuing the Challenge. He may, of course, be entirely lying about the trip to the Phillipines, the woman (and her very existance), etc., in order to simply drag this out.

But any person who posts here claiming to be interested in the Challenge may be doing so. I am interested enough in the Challenge that I will give people the benefit of the doubt for a pretty long time, and PC has not (yet) demonstrated to me that he is a troll. The suspicion is there, but if someone is asking about protocols and testing, I think it's incumbent upon myself to help them until it's clear they're really not interested in understanding.

I am not here to make people "jump through hoops", as if the Challenge were a game designed solely to frustrate people who want to apply. I am here to help people understand the Challenge and the concept of controlled testing, with the hope that maybe, someday, someone might actually complete a test and learn something (and, possibly, just maybe, someone might actually win the Challenge).

The idea of controlled testing, and how to design a test so as to be controlled, is not some kind of instinctual thing. It takes practice and exposure to a kind of thinking to which a lot of people, unfortunately, are not really exposed. So I am inclined to stick around a little bit longer and see if I can help teach that (insofar that I even understand it myself; I'm no expert).

If this bugs you, you could always stay away from this thread.
 
Jackalgirl said:
and PC has not (yet) demonstrated to me that he is a troll.
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I'll go farther and state that in my opinion PC is NOT a troll. His links to newspaper articles and his extreme openness about himself convince me that he honestly believes what he is saying and wishes to engage in a conversation about it.

Now, I also think that PC is seriously self-deluded and cannot come to terms with simple logic when it comes to casting his own beliefs into doubt. But he believes he is here to learn and test his theories. He lacks the ability to do so, but he doesn't know that.

Not having seen trolling from PC, I will continue to encourage him towards developing a protocol, applying and taking the challenge.
 
GzuzKryzt said:
Today I saw a decently dressed man picking cigarette butts out of a public ashtray, so my meters are a little off:

Are you seriously stating that PeaceCrusader's OP is a flame?
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Not at all. I was referring to Moochie.
 
I just look forward to April 1st where we can disregard the nonsense that has been posted in this thread by PC.

It may become a slimmer forum, but I have grown weary of trawling through the lunatic ramblings of religious clowns and pranksters.
 
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