• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

PS Audio Noise Harvester

You're just grasping for straws because for some reason you can't stand the idea that your sacred cow the NH is a complete sham and rip-off. Oh wait, I know why, because you blew a huge wad of money on worthless crap and now you can't even admit it to yourself.

Osmosis,

The NH is not a "complete sham." Just an overpriced, overhyped, barely functional, line noise suppressor with a clever marketing gimmick.

It can make a difference in system sound by reducing, albeit not a lot, noise that can couple from the AC mains into low level inputs such as from analog vinyl players. It can also make a difference (either more noise or less noise) in radio AM reception, largely from re-distribution of near field (B-dominant) sources due to shunting of currents by the NH.
 
ExtremeSkeptic said:
I burned the ERS Paper and nothing happened. Most of it is Carbon Fibers.

Please be more specific. Did you set it on fire and it burned, and nothing else happened? Or are you saying it didn't ignite at all?

If you were able to set it on fire, it's not safe inside chassis, around circuit boards, around power transformers, etc.

From the manufacturer's website:

What's it made of?
The core of ers is made of a blend of carbon fibers of various lengths and sizes. Using a proprietary method, these fibers are coated with metals, such as nickel. These fibers absorb, reflect and diffuse RFI/EMI. ERS has on average about 66 db noise reduction in it's 10meg to 17 gig range. this is all that we can claim, due to it's defense restrictions.

The exterior is laminated with a polyester textile on both sides to make the material easier to handle and use.
This is the base of ers.

Ers may all be purchased with a pressure sensitive adhesive already applied for easy and quick installation.

The edges of ers do have exposed conductive fibers and should be handled and installed with care. The electrical resistance of ers is .026 ohms per square yard.

The polyester fabric will insulate the core of ers, to some degree, but can be easily penetrated with sharp edges. Caution should be exercised when used in close proximity to circuitry.

Carbon fibers are combustible, of course, especially when loosely dispersed. (Dense carbon-fiber structural materials are more difficult to ignite). The metal coating may or may not help, or might make it worse, because the manufacturer doesn't identify the metal. ("...metals, such as nickel"? Yes, nickel is a metal, so did they use nickel or something else? Thin iron coatings burn easily. You can light fine steel wool with a match.) Many polyester fabrics are self-extinguishing, and fire retardant treatments are available. However, the carbon fiber could act as a wick to keep the polyester burning. Polyester melts at under 500 degrees F, what happens to the insulating layer then?

So this stuff could in theory be manufactured to be relatively fire safe, but did they do so? Has this material been approved by the Underwriters Laboratory for this use?

And even if the fabric is difficult to ignite, there's other combustible material in electronic devices. That's one reason why they have fuses. It's also a reason why the cabinets have ventilation grilles, which you're defeating by wrapping fabric around the components.

Overheating + bypassed fuses + possibly combustible (and definitely melt-able) polyester + metal-covered (and possibly combustible) carbon fibers that are electrically insulated "to some degree" = :eek:

Don't buy another gadget, don't even buy food, until you've bought yourself a good fire extinguisher that includes a rating for class C (Look for a black letter C in a soild blue circle, or a square blue icon depicting a burning electrical socket). And get a smoke detector, if you don't have one already, to position on the ceiling directly over your rig.

And for the love of God, put the line fuses back in. Have their terminals gold-plated if you must, they will have no detectable impedance.

How many other people live in the building you live in? Do you think they have the right to some consideration for their safety?

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Osmosis,

The NH is not a "complete sham." Just an overpriced, overhyped, barely functional, line noise suppressor with a clever marketing gimmick.

It can make a difference in system sound by reducing, albeit not a lot, noise that can couple from the AC mains into low level inputs such as from analog vinyl players. It can also make a difference (either more noise or less noise) in radio AM reception, largely from re-distribution of near field (B-dominant) sources due to shunting of currents by the NH.

I'm not sure I agree that it should even be barely functional. From what I can tell, it's just a high-pass filter. The same kind of filter that would be found in even a low-grade audio power supply.

Why should this noise couple into any of the amplifier stages if it's attenuated (ignored) by the filtering in the power supply? At best, the NH puts another capacitor and resistor in parallel with the existing filters.
 
I'm not sure I agree that it should even be barely functional. From what I can tell, it's just a high-pass filter. The same kind of filter that would be found in even a low-grade audio power supply.

Why should this noise couple into any of the amplifier stages if it's attenuated (ignored) by the filtering in the power supply? At best, the NH puts another capacitor and resistor in parallel with the existing filters.

It's a high freq. shunt, not a high pass filter. From the images, it operates largely by paralleling a few caps across the line. In series is a step up toroidal transformer which outputs a stepped up version of line noise that exceeds about 10khz. This next part is speculation on the design: This noise is rectified and used to charge up a cap which is probably discharged by a shmidtt clamp for visual purposes. This is similar to, but less effective than, just shunting the caps across the line. However, just using shunting caps doesn't provide cute blinky lights.

Needless to say, I agree that any decent system design supresses line noise coupling far more that a NH.
 
It's a high freq. shunt, not a high pass filter.

Shunt, that's the word I was looking for.

Needless to say, I agree that any decent system design supresses line noise coupling far more that a NH.

I wonder if that's why they recommend buying a half dozen or so... hmm..

I remember in the promo video, whatshisname says "the cool thing about these" [is that you can buy several]. I never did figure out what's so cool about having to spend all that money to get next-to-nothing done.
 
And for the love of God, put the line fuses back in. Have their terminals gold-plated if you must, they will have no detectable impedance.

How many other people live in the building you live in? Do you think they have the right to some consideration for their safety?

No kidding!

He's right ES, bypassing fuses is crossing the line, period. I'm sure none of us will be surprised when you accidentally kill yourself, but please don't take anyone with you (except Paul McGowan).

Put the fuses back.
 
No kidding!

He's right ES, bypassing fuses is crossing the line, period. I'm sure none of us will be surprised when you accidentally kill yourself, but please don't take anyone with you (except Paul McGowan).

Put the fuses back.


Except DJ Paul would say thats ok. And he thinks its ok to lift the AC ground as well.

And note they claim again my test is faulty because you can see line noise, but what they once again twist is the fact that soooo many of them say they hear more bass or hi end. MMM if you hear it then the FFT is going to show it.
 
Except DJ Paul would say thats ok. And he thinks its ok to lift the AC ground as well.

And note they claim again my test is faulty because you can see line noise, but what they once again twist is the fact that soooo many of them say they hear more bass or hi end. MMM if you hear it then the FFT is going to show it.
You don't even know what more bass is. It isn't louder bass, it is higher resolution. More bass information causes it to sound fuller and heavier which makes it more emphasized.

Any tweak will always show the same frequency response curve. It will always have the same loudness at each frequency. Why would a tweak magically increase the loudness of a frequency? I am still surprised anyone thinks of it that way.

You need to measure the timing of the sound.
 
Last edited:
The fact (note that word) that there was NO difference between the plots negates the need for further testing. Case closed.

Aren't allowed to? How the hell can he stop somebody from tweaking? All he is doing is informing them that it won't make any difference. In other words, he is stopping them wasting their time and money.
Incomplete testing is still a lie. People who were going to try the Harvester see that someone has made testing that says "100%" and "impossible", they are going to change their minds and don't try the Harvester. After a few decades a friend comes over and shows it to him and then he realizes the truth. All those years that he has wasted just because of people in this forum. Who is he going to be mad at? The one who said it was impossible. Then he is going to do something about it so that it doesn't happen to another person, what do you think will happen?

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Oh, I'm interested in this $5000 amp you bought. Please give me the following specs:
This was my first amp in my crappy system: http://www.stereotimes.com/amp110199.shtml

The Toroidal transformer had an audible sound that could be heard from across room. Cleaner power reduced that sound.
 
No kidding!

He's right ES, bypassing fuses is crossing the line, period. I'm sure none of us will be surprised when you accidentally kill yourself, but please don't take anyone with you (except Paul McGowan).

Put the fuses back.
I have only bypassed the fuses of the gear plugged into Premier Power Plant.
 
Except DJ Paul would say thats ok. And he thinks its ok to lift the AC ground as well.

And note they claim again my test is faulty because you can see line noise, but what they once again twist is the fact that soooo many of them say they hear more bass or hi end. MMM if you hear it then the FFT is going to show it.

Well... the FFT will only show it if it's really there. There's no telling what they're hearing. Some people hear God telling them to do things -- like the lady in California who hears God telling her to put up signs on her roof.
People are upset about property values, but at least she's not trying to bypass fuses and burn down the homes of other people.
 
The reason for a sensory deprivation tank is, um, sensory deprivation.

Listening to music in that environment is a bit pointless.
Sensory deprivation tank is the best way to improve a mental skill. Athletes don't only use it to rest their muscles... When listening to audio only the ears and brain need to be active.
 
Last edited:
Once again we need to ask, Are you for real? You've just accused a forum member, doing something that is part of his education and line of work, of bing a terrorist!

That borders on reportable, but I'll let speco2007 decide on that.
He says he doubts it'll go anywhere and he does it just for fun.

It is obvious he just wants attention:
http://www.psaudio.com/account/forum/view.asp?catID=2&forumID=4&topicID=4299

I've been turning the screws on Mr. McGowan over there, pointing out his ethical challenges and trying to get him to answer for his actions. I doubt it'll go anywhere, but it sure is fun!
 
Speco's test was as intelligent as a chess game where you calculate how to mate the king with your first move. And then you say it is impossible and no further testing is needed..."Case closed".

And then people agree..."Now that's a real test!". Then speco gets proud. It is like looking at little monkeys who found some measurement devices...
 
Any tweak will always show the same frequency response curve. It will always have the same loudness at each frequency. Why would a tweak magically increase the loudness of a frequency? I am still surprised anyone thinks of it that way.

Wow. Just wow.

I'm sure you're not for real now. Nobody can believe THAT and still be able to write correct English.
 
Wow. Just wow.

I'm sure you're not for real now. Nobody can believe THAT and still be able to write correct English.
I'm talking about tweaks for the power supply. Vibration isolation, power conditioning, shielding etc. Just because sound comes out from the speakers doesn't mean the power supply functions as good as it can. A capacitor is not like a car tank that needs to be filled up with gas. Imagine if the tank has holes in it, and you pour the gas inside in waves, and it all happens in real-time. It's more complex than people think.
 
Last edited:
Speco's test was as intelligent as a chess game where you calculate how to mate the king with your first move. And then you say it is impossible and no further testing is needed..."Case closed".

And then people agree..."Now that's a real test!". Then speco gets proud. It is like looking at little monkeys who found some measurement devices...
For anyone who didn't realize, it is possible to mate the king with more than 1 move. All you need is deeper understanding. You can't just look at the surface of something and know the truth, you need to go deep inside. You need to enter the audiophile hobby and try things for yourself, you aren't going to understand it otherwise.
Instead of sitting in a spaceship around Eart's orbit to study the humans I have entered a human vessel instead. Just by looking at the humans they make no sense, you need to temporarily become one yourself to truly understand them. I have been at both sides of the fence and it makes sense to me now. Now I'm just waiting until my alien buddies come back to beam me up.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom