Virginia apologizes for slavery

On a more serious note. I'm torn on the issue. I've always been against such apologies but I'm not so sure anymore. So long as the statement is one in which the regret is simply one of an official capacity and that is simply on behalf of the state and isn't construed to apply to anyone living. Is that possible?
 
shanek said:
In fact, Lee was an abolitionist.
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Lee is a complicated person. He felt slavery was sinful, but he also felt it necessary in the "white man's burden" sort of argument. He was not however, an abolitionist.

My original point was that everyone is against slavery today, that's a no-brainer. It would be a brave (yet suicidal) political move to question the motives and actions of someone like Lee, who is still considered by many in Virginia, a hero.
 
Alt+F4 said:
No one in the state of Virginia today ever owned a slave, so why are they apologizing? I don't see how it's possible to apologize for someone else's crimes.
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It isn't the individuals here that are apologizing. It is the state of Virginia that is (officially) apologizing.
 
I have no reason at all to doubt your word that your family didn't own slaves, roadtoad, but just for once it would have been cool to meet someone who admitted their family (a) owned slaves and (b) were nasty to them.

If all the incidents told as "true stories" about how "we were nice to our slaves" by southerners were true, history would have to be re-written, since apparently black slaves more or less owned the entire south and their every whim was catered to by their nominal owners.
 
Skeptic said:
I have no reason at all to doubt your word that your family didn't own slaves, roadtoad, but just for once it would have been cool to meet someone who admitted their family (a) owned slaves and (b) were nasty to them.

If all the incidents told as "true stories" about how "we were nice to our slaves" by southerners were true, history would have to be re-written, since apparently black slaves more or less owned the entire south and their every whim was catered to by their nominal owners.
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Interesting point. I've often wondered about this, how there could have been so many slaves in the South, but there could have been so few slave owners or slave masters. And for that matter, when you visit the old plantations, you wonder how the main house could have stood for so long, yet many of the slave's quarters have eroded into oblivion in such a short time. You look at the exhibits at the Virginia Museum, then examine what remains at old plantations, and then ask yourself if you would have chosen to live under such conditions. I've yet to see anyone provide a very effective refutation to Fredrick Douglass' writings.
 
Actually, slaves were considered valuable property, so there was an incentive to treat them nicely. Most of the mistreatment, and certainly the nastiest instances, came when they thought for some reason that they could, you know, escape and live freely or something. Then they were tortured, abused, or even killed as an "example." As a result, most of the slaves behaved, and thus were treated comparatively well, and this is also how the "Uncle Toms" come about--they didn't want to be any worse off than they were, so they cooperated and even participated in the punishment of slaves who acted up.

I always thought there was a moral in that. If all or even most of the slaves had decided they didn't want to go along with it, there wouldn't have been thing one the slaveowners could do about it. As it is, they were kept in line by fear.
 
Sir Robin Goodfellow said:
I'd like to officially apologize for burning down the White House during the War of 1812.
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Well, I suppose we could apologize for dumping your tea. Sorry bout that. :D


On topic- There is also a National Slavery Museum being built locally here in Va.
 
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I'm feeling a lot of love in this room!

As a North Carolinian, I'd like to personally apologize for Clay Aiken. Sorry, guys!
 
shanek said:
I always thought there was a moral in that. If all or even most of the slaves had decided they didn't want to go along with it, there wouldn't have been thing one the slaveowners could do about it. As it is, they were kept in line by fear.
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Which turns out, AIU, is part of the human condition. Humans can be made to be compliant with minimum control. It is, to some extent, in our nature. There is also the point about perception. What does it mean to be free? Freedom is a relative concept. Please, don't misconstrue my point. Slavery is pernicious. I could not conceive of an argument to suppose that it is not so. It's just that it seems to me possible to create an environment where humans accept their condition and don't see the shackles. I don't mean to be flip and minimize slavery, as I said, it is a pernicious thing but aren't those who go to church each and every Sunday, to some extent, slaves? Or those of us who work, especially at dead end jobs, slaves? Again, my only point is one of perception. Many slaves perhaps did not have a basis for seeing their plight as slaves.

"If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more." --Harriet Tubman
 
RandFan said:
It's just that it seems to me possible to create an environment where humans accept their condition and don't see the shackles.
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And that, to at least some degree, is what's happening now.

"If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could have freed thousands more." --Harriet Tubman
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The Editor: Is a slave a slave if he doesn't know he's been enslaved?

The Doctor: Yes.

The Editor: Oh, I was hoping for a philosophical debate. Is that all I'm gonna get? "Yes"?

The Doctor: Yes.
 
shanek said:
And that, to at least some degree, is what's happening now.
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Agreed.


The Editor: Is a slave a slave if he doesn't know he's been enslaved?

The Doctor: Yes.

The Editor: Oh, I was hoping for a philosophical debate. Is that all I'm gonna get? "Yes"?

The Doctor: Yes.
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Which raises the question, how do any of us know that we are free, or not free?
 
A complete, utterly meaningless waste of time. Isn't this the same state where, a scant 6 months ago, then Senator George Allen referred to a man as "macaca"?

He apologized, as well he should have. But should we have expected the entire state to make an "official" apology? No, we should not have. And that happened just last summer. Slavery ended in this country more than 140 years ago. Hey I know! My dad (since passed on) had a heckuva hard time getting a job back there in the late 40s early 50s because he was Catholic - and you had to put down your religion on applications. America is WASPworld, as we know. Therefore, ALL of corporate America must apologize to me and my entire family!

Someone said this was a political stunt and I agree. What, exactly, was this supposed to accomplish? Was it supposed to make black people feel better? I don't see how. "Yes, the public schools in our neighborhoods are definitely sub-standard as compared to white neighborhoods - but at LEAST the state of Virginia apologized to us for slavery!!!". I don't think so. Black people in this country don't need hollow, meaningless apologies. They need equal access to education, health care, the job market, the real estate market and so forth.
 
ConspiRaider said:
A complete, utterly meaningless waste of time.
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Someone said this was a political stunt and I agree. What, exactly, was this supposed to accomplish? Was it supposed to make black people feel better? I don't see how. "Yes, the public schools in our neighborhoods are definitely sub-standard as compared to white neighborhoods - but at LEAST the state of Virginia apologized to us for slavery!!!". I don't think so. Black people in this country don't need hollow, meaningless apologies. They need equal access to education, health care, the job market, the real estate market and so forth.
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Hear, hear!

Living in a country where apologising for transgressions of past generations has reached an art form, I can relate to this.

The New Zealand Government has issued apologies for all sorts of transgressions of over a century ago. We recently apologised to a soldier who was shot for cowardice in World War I.

Yes, it is recorded that the original sin was indeed a mistake, but it's ridiculous. As has been pointed out, it's infinite regression at its very worst. Who's going to apologise to Neanderthal? And who's to listen?

Until every woman in the world collectively apologise for that stupid bitch Eve for talking to snakes, I NEVER want to hear another apology by a dead culture to another dead culture.
 
Well, for all those who don't think Virginia needed to apologize for slavery, I ask you: honestly, now, how do you feel about Japan's take on the Rape of Nanking? They're still calling it an "incident". Do they owe an apology? Should they issue one, whether owed or not? How about a statement of regret? Or even an acknowledgment of what happened?
 
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