Whoa, am I psychic?

It seems that in most people's eyes, apologies not made simply and gracefully are not worth much. That's why this thread is still active. Both of Randi's responses contained the phrase "mea culpa", Latin for "my fault." However the phrase was buried under excuses phrased with flippancy, condescension and resentment.

I have never met Randi, but because some of the posters here have and because they have a good opinion of him, I suppose it's possible that the flippancy, condescension and resentment was misdirected embarrassment.

I don't think there was anything to be embarrassed about --everyone makes mistakes. Mistakes are not what defines us, its what we do after we figure out (or have it pointed out to us! ;) ) that we've made a mistake. His "apology" left a lot to be desired and the next time he's in a situation where he decides to apologize, I suggest he keep it short and simple. I also suggest he run it by some friends first.

Randi has done the world a significant service. As most of you probably know, in the 1970s many intelligent people, even scientists with degrees from reputable universities (including Stanford and Columbia Universities), believed in Uri Geller's cons. Thousands of people saw Geller's acts live and on TV shows and believed his supernatural explanation. Scientists at Stanford Research Institute* confirmed his abilities. Also, at around this time, two large governments, the USA and the former USSR were spending millions on research in ESP. It's not illogical to suppose that this belief could have festered and eventually damaged one of the most successful philosophies that has ever been shared by many cultures throughout the world. That is science: an evidence-based philosophy that took centuries to develop and has improved people's lives immeasurably and in multiple ways. A serious and widespread belief in a Geller-like concept of the world could have brought many nations and people back to a time where superstitions ruled and personalities under the guise of being "psychics" and "wizards" had political power. I've seen some of those old Geller videos on the net. Viewing them while being aware of the badly designed Stanford Research Institute's experiments with Geller and a knowledge of what the two largest superpowers in the world had included in their national budgets at the time is, quite frankly, a disturbing experience. Randi debunked Geller on a 1973 Johnny Carson show and he designed Project Alpha which took place at the McDonnell Laboratory, thus exposing the poor design controls on paranormal experiments.

However, Randi is definitely not perfect and based on my self-admittedly very limited knowledge of him, he seems to have a blind spot when it comes to himself.

Randi has a JREF board. He also has a team of moderators who, by virtue of both their personalities and also how they spend so much time volunteering on this forum, are probably plugged into how many people think. He also has the option to simply ask some people to form an "informal advisory PR cabinet." I'm sure he could easily get people from various walks of life -- academic, media, legal, the arts, business, IT, and etc. who would be more than happy to assist him in this way. I suggest that in the future Randi take advantage of this and run his PR issues through them.

The world is better off for what Randi has done, particularly in the 1970s, but often when it comes to basic interacting with the public, particularly with the subset that doesn't already know him well and aren't adoring "love-is-blind" type fans, -- he just doesn't get it.


*Stanford Research Institute was affiliated with Stanford University until 1970, and is currently known as Stanford Research International (SRI).
 
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For what it's worth, the comments were e-mailed to Randi. I believe the whole thread was. I don't think that fact changes anything; I'm just trying to be complete. There was no "ghost-writing."

I think the unspoken 'elephant in the room' here is that no-one can quite believe that a 'strapped for time' Randi was reading the forum and lifted a quote out of it and reworded it to make it look like he wrote it. It's just dumb and so unlike him.

It seems makes far more sense that some underling is ghost-writing chunks of the column and blatantly stole a post from the forum, and passed it on to Randi.
 
"mea culpa" is NOT an apology, it's an admission of culpability. It doesn't infer, hint, suggest or in any other way show that the person at fault is regretful or sorry for their actions, just that they accept that they screwed up.

The use of "mea culpa" just reiterates what Randi has already said in English - that he screwed up.

But it's not an apology.

In case it's useful to anyone, the latin for "I'm sorry" is Me paenitet.
 
What TEEK said.

"mea culpa" to me has always meant - it was my fault

We already worked out that it was your fault, Randi.
 
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Originally Posted by fls
...snip... It was a perfect opportunity, risk-free for Randi, to demonstrate how to put your money where your mouth is when it comes to questions of honesty and integrity - the very things that he talks about, week after week in SWIFT.

...snip...

Which he did - have you not read this weeks SWIFT? As far as I can see he's given the matter as much prominence as he could.

I have read this week's SWIFT. I would not have said anything otherwise.

I was not talking about whether or not he gave it prominence. I was talking about what response he chose to make now that it was relatively prominent. I tried to indicate what I meant with my next sentence....

Instead he chose to make the point that this is hardly what forum members should be going after.

Linda
 
Ditto. The posts and threads in this forum have given me new insights and changed my mind about things on more than one occasion... and I've also learned some great techniques for making my point from other posters.

Frankly, I'm glad that Randi reads the forums. A lot of really good things that need to be said are said here. (And a lot of crap that nobody could possibly care about, too, but there are certainly gems among the dross.)

Couldn't agree more, but as Billyjoe has been saying, that isn't the issue here. My position is pretty much identical to Billyjoe. If Randi was in a hurry, it would have been a damn site faster to copy, paste and attribute the quote.

That's not pretty.

Randi has given everyone a little ammunition, and there can be no doubt that this will come back to haunt him.

The timing is shocking at the start of the "new plan".

And god forbid that someone should start wading through pages of BS in effort to find other cases of copied words, from the forum or elsewhere. Remember, some people have strongly vested interests in discrediting him.

I tell you, if he's EVER done this before, the time to 'fess up is in the next column - if not sooner.

Quite how he's going to extricate himself from the first issue, I don't know.
 
Wow, so all those people I've heard apologize in the past using that phrase … hadn't apologized? :eye-poppi

Seriously, when someone says a situation is their fault, I think it's usually inferred that they regret it. Or maybe that's just the American spin on it. But I could certainly be wrong.

One thing for sure, I'll never quite interpret "mea culpa" the same way again.
 
"mea culpa" is NOT an apology, it's an admission of culpability. It doesn't infer, hint, suggest or in any other way show that the person at fault is regretful or sorry for their actions, just that they accept that they screwed up.

The use of "mea culpa" just reiterates what Randi has already said in English - that he screwed up.

But it's not an apology.

In case it's useful to anyone, the latin for "I'm sorry" is Me paenitet.
Randi usually uses that expression when he feels he made a minor error. I don't think he's trying to cover up a mistake or make excuses. He just doesn't understand our acute sensitivity about it and doesn't think it's a big deal. We don't all come from the same background. For me, this would be brazen academic dishonesty. I would get in big trouble for it. Randi just doesn't have the same sensitivity. Personally, I think he should be really careful about setting a good example if he's going to go after Sylvia Brown.

teek, would it help you if he gave a transparent account of exactly how he ended up putting his name on someone else's words, listed what actions he would take so he didn't accidentally do it again, and apologized? As long as it was a reasonable mistake, I see no reason those actions wouldn't put this whole issue to bed. It would also set a very good example (i.e. if skeptics screw up, we'll openly admit it and take corrective action.)
 
teek, would it help you if he gave a transparent account of exactly how he ended up putting his name on someone else's words, listed what actions he would take so he didn't accidentally do it again, and apologized? As long as it was a reasonable mistake, I see no reason those actions wouldn't put this whole issue to bed. It would also set a very good example (i.e. if skeptics screw up, we'll openly admit it and take corrective action.)

Delphi, that's seriously what I was expecting from the email that Hawkeye received. When it wasn't but we were told that this would be settled in the commentary, I thought it was weird to expose it to even more people, but that what you've described would occur there, rather than the unfortunate and baffling response that we did get. So, I don't really know what would help now and I certainly don't believe we're ever going to get anything better than what was in Swift yesterday.

I think there are some egos involved, sadly.

I'd also like to say that I find it regrettable and a little ironic that Randi has described as 'barking watchdogs' the very forum he got the original text from.

There are no sacred cows. I hope, really and truly, that this is not an indication that we are not allowed to criticise Randi.
 
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....snip...

I'd also like to say that I find it regrettable and a little ironic that Randi has described as 'barking watchdogs' the very forum he got the original text from.

This is the actual phrase he used in the commentary:

...snip...

Now, the Forum watchdogs have begun barking at this innocent error.

...snip...

Personally when I read this I felt quite proud that Randi acknowledged that the Forum acted as "watchdogs" - I found his phrase complimentary since watchdogs are the good guys not the bad guys. I really don't understand how being compared to watchdogs is meant to be a negative comparison.


....snip...
There are no sacred cows. I hope, really and truly, that this is not an indication that we are not allowed to criticise Randi.

Again I really don't see how this impression can be lifted from his words at all. He compliments the Forum participants by comparing them to watchdogs, he sets aside a complete section in the following SWIFT to address the issue publicly even though he had already (at least to him) dealt with the issue in private correspondence (and don't forget he even said feel free to publish his private email).

The evidence shows that Randi has

1) admitted what he did was wrong
2) he has acted both publicly and privately to rectify the situation.

Now I understand that some people don't think his wording was an apology however I read it as an apology so that's just a matter of opinion, what else do people expect him to do?
 
Ditto. The posts and threads in this forum have given me new insights and changed my mind about things on more than one occasion... and I've also learned some great techniques for making my point from other posters.
Yep, yep, and yep.

Frankly, I'm glad that Randi reads the forums. A lot of really good things that need to be said are said here. (And a lot of crap that nobody could possibly care about, too, but there are certainly gems among the dross.)
Yep, and surprised that he does. Yep, and yep.

Now, have you ever cut and pasted someone else's post, altered a few words, added a bit of padding, and changed the pronouns so as to pass it off as your own?
 
...snip...


Sorry, but this is not correct.

Unless you have access to his thoughts you can't say this is incorrect, you can hold that in your opinion he is lying but you can't know that.

He didn't just fail to credit the text. As I said before he "lifted the posts, changed a couple of words, added a bit of padding and changed certain third person pronouns into first person pronouns so as to pass the whole thing off as his own." If he had intended but "inadvertently failed" to credit the text, why would he make all the changes that made it look like he wrote it himself.

Depends on the type of credit he would have made doesn't it?
...snip..

Certainly it doesn't deserve concerned forumites being referred to as barking watchdogs.

...snip....

Well as I showed above he does not describe the forumites as "barking watchdogs" - and as I said above I'm quite proud if he considers people here as watchdogs.

I've not responded to the rest of your post because it is after all the explanation you have for why you consider Randi a liar and I admit I really don't want to get into that type of discussion, at least at the moment.
 
Now I understand that some people don't think his wording was an apology however I read it as an apology so that's just a matter of opinion, what else do people expect him to do?
If the apology was genuine, why would there be any problem clearing that fact up? Also, I've made suggestions as to what I think would be a good way to clear this up:
...a transparent account of exactly how he ended up putting his name on someone else's words, listed what actions he would take so he didn't accidentally do it again, and apologized...
The key issue here being transparency. How is text from another author floating around with Randi's drafts, and how did he end up editing it as though it was his own work?
 
You missed my point which was that, if Randi was so busy (as he says), and if he already had the views espoused by hawkeye (as he says), why didn't he just publish those views instead of reading through a thread and finding those views in the thread, then cutting, pasting and editing. Which would be more time efficient do you think (for a busy man)?

...snip...

How can we know, perhaps he took five minutes away from his busy schedule and just read that thread and thought - "that's it!"? However arguing from personal incredulity is not the best type of argument.
 
Everyone spell out what they would like Randi to do to make amends.
Again, I have. He needs to explain how something like this happened. I cannot support an organization where lifting another person's work uncredited occationally happens due to sloppy work habits, and then no corrective action is taken (or even expected!)
 
However arguing from personal incredulity is not the best type of argument.
However, we still don't have an open, transparent account of what actually happened. Why are we arguing when we could have an explaination that would settle the entire issue?
 
If the apology was genuine, why would there be any problem clearing that fact up?

He already has - that is what was in this week's SWIFT.

Also, I've made suggestions as to what I think would be a good way to clear this up:

The key issue here being transparency. How is text from another author floating around with Randi's drafts, and how did he end up editing it as though it was his own work?

He already did explain it:

...Last week, rushing to get SWIFT together, I downloaded, edited, vetted, stored, juggled, and otherwise handled the huge amount of text that I have to organize in order to produce this page every week....

In fact as I've just re-read that quote I can think of a very reasonable re-construction

E.g. Perhaps all Randi did was when he first read the post was think "that's it", he highlighted the post in his browser, hit CTRL-C, moved to his draft of SWIFT pasted it into that, then later on (perhaps even a couple of days later who knows) when he is working on his draft he reworked the text without remembering that it was someone else's work he needed to credit.

Now I am not saying this is what happened just showing how there are explanations that would mean Randi did make as he put an "innocent mistake".

(I also suspect that Randi could not offer a better explanation then he has done simply because time has moved on, how could he reconstruct how he actually created a particular SWIFT?)

Considering that he has so publicly admitted he made a mistake I do have to say I consider the explanations that do not require Randi lying in either his apology and clarification or being deliberately dishonest more likely than the ones that require him to have deliberately acted in a dishonest manner and then lied about it.
 

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