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Questions for 9/11 Truthers

Maybe it wasn't so elaborately planned.
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You mean, it was basically as per the official account? 19 pissed off muslims with some flight training hijack 4 aircraft, fly them to 3 out of 4 landmarks and just about manage to crash them into said landmarks, killing thousands of innocent people in the process. One plane crashes into ground in PA due to valiant attempt of passengers to fight back.

Yep, pretty un-complex.

As opposed to:

4 planes may or may not have been hijacked by terrorists knowingly/unknowingly working for CIA/some un-named organisation and are flown into 3 out of 4 landmarks using some form of remote control killing all of the passengers who may or may not have been on the planes and causing pre-planted explosives to detonate and destroy the already severely damaged wtc towers...oh and wtc7 for some reason...we're ummmm not quite sure about.

Nice one.
 
A-Train said:
Question:How could such a Keystone Kops Kaper have fooled everyone in the world--except a few white guys who got on the web?

A-Train's answer: It hasn't fooled hardly anyone in the world-- except Americans. What is the source of your knowledge about what "the world" believes about 9/11?
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What is yours? I live in "the world" outside the USA, and hardly anyone believes in the 9/11-inside job nonsense (and certainly hardly any journalist, scientist, architect, engineer).

A-Train said:
Question:Why are so many 9/11 Truth organizations overtly anti-Semitic?

A-Train's answer:They aren't. But the more honest and courageous ones can see that the evidence pointing to Israeli-Zionist direct involvement is overwhelming.
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Another one ... :rolleyes:

Well, will you be the first to provide this overwhelming evidence?

And please, don't insult your and mine intelligence by using the "5 dancing jews", "the Odigo warning", Silverstein's "profits" and other similar nonsense.
 
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A-Train said:
How could such a Keystone Kops Kaper have fooled everyone in the world--except a few white guys who got on the web?

It hasn't fooled hardly anyone in the world-- except Americans. What is the source of your knowledge about what "the world" believes about 9/11?
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Dude, I live in Germany.

Anytime I tell anyone here that there are people in the US who think the US Government planned and carried out the attacks on September 11, 2001, the reaciton I get is goggle eyed disbelief that anyone could possibly be so stupid as to come up with and believe the convoluted conspiracy theories that you 911 folks come up with.

Even people who grew up under conditions much like your paranoid fantasies don't accept any of your theories. I used to work with a guy who grew up in the DDR (East Germany.) Things there were much closer to your paranoid fantasies than the US will ever get, and even he doesn't buy into the US government being able to carry out a deception as massive as you seem to believe.

Put up some proof of your beliefs and stop spouting hot air.
 
MortFurd said:
.....and even he doesn't buy into the US government being able to carry out a deception as massive as you seem to believe.

Put up some proof of your beliefs and stop spouting hot air.
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Ahhh but he doesn't think it's massive.

It's an interesting spin on the CT, but very dangerous for the woowoo concerned.

If you simplify the whole CT you get very close to agreeing with the official account. Planes did crash into buildings and into shanksville.

No huge amount of explosives used, no space beams or termites, just enough damage to let gravity do the job for you (in other words, exactly what happened when the planes damaged the buildings)

But the simplified version still fails when it comes to world perception.

How is it that the worlds media isn't all over this story?

Why hasn't the democrat party taken up the cause?

Where are the incidental whistleblowers, you know, those low level people who weren't in on the actual conspiracy but do remember the requisition request for explosives and the dodgy maintenance manifestos for the aircraft?

Unfortunately for the simplified woowoo, there is still too much complicity from others for this to be a small conspiracy.

It's been over five years now and the woowoos are still talking about freefall, lightpoles and holes in the ground.

C'mon, come up with something new, PLEASE!
 
MortFurd said:
Dude, I live in Germany.

Anytime I tell anyone here that there are people in the US who think the US Government planned and carried out the attacks on September 11, 2001, the reaciton I get is goggle eyed disbelief that anyone could possibly be so stupid as to come up with and believe the convoluted conspiracy theories that you 911 folks come up with.
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You are doing what so many of the proponents of the official story do. You are misrepresenting to those German people what 9/11 skeptics believe. I, for one, do not believe the "US government planned and carried out the attacks on September11, 2001." That is called setting up a straw man argument and then knocking it down.
 
A-Train said:
You are doing what so many of the proponents of the official story do. You are misrepresenting to those German people what 9/11 skeptics believe. I, for one, do not believe the "US government planned and carried out the attacks on September11, 2001." That is called setting up a straw man argument and then knocking it down.
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No, it's not a strawman. Just because you don't believe the "US government planned and carreid out the attacks on September11[sic], 2001." does not mean that that statement is misrepresenting the "9/11 skeptics". High visibility groups, such as SfT911, LTW, prisonplanet, etc have made it clear that they do feel the US Gov't is behind the attacks.
 
A-Train said:
You are doing what so many of the proponents of the official story do. You are misrepresenting to those German people what 9/11 skeptics believe. I, for one, do not believe the "US government planned and carried out the attacks on September11, 2001." That is called setting up a straw man argument and then knocking it down.
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So why don't you just tell us what you think happened on 9/11, since you seem to think none of the current nonsense represents your beliefs?

Don't make us sit through another two month Twoofer Fact-Tease Act!
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
No, it's not a strawman. Just because you don't believe the "US government planned and carreid out the attacks on September11[sic], 2001." does not mean that that statement is misrepresenting the "9/11 skeptics". High visibility groups, such as SfT911, LTW, prisonplanet, etc have made it clear that they do feel the US Gov't is behind the attacks.
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That is why they have high visibility. They are promoted by the mainstream media as the official representatives of the 9/11 truth movement because the ideas they promote are even more preposterous than the official story itself. These groups are led by hucksters and frauds like Alex Jones and James Fetzer. As long as they promote theories like "No-757 at the Pentagon" and "Da guv'ment did it," their groups will continue to be high visibility.
 
Horatius said:
So why don't you just tell us what you think happened on 9/11, since you seem to think none of the current nonsense represents your beliefs?
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I believe all four planes were hijacked by real people. They all ended up where the official story puts them. The phone calls from the planes are real, and reflect actual events on the planes. The hijackers were armed with guns as well as knives-- as indicated in several of the phone calls-- and were part of a sophisticated, well-planned operation far beyond the capability of al-Qaeda or any other Arab or Muslim group. The planes may have been piloted by the hijackers, or more likely, by a remote navigation system like Global Hawk.

The purpose of the operation was to frame Arab-Muslims for the crime of the century, and induce America to go to war in the Middle East.

Our President knew nothing of the attack, and today believes the official story told to him. High officials such as Rumsfeld and Cheney also were not involved in the attacks. Our military was not involved in the attacks. The NORAD standdown was accomplished by a very small number of disloyal officers-- maybe as few as one or two-- in the command structure who sent out garbled orders to the fighter pilots, making sure none would intercept any of the hijacked planes.

Please do not demand I "prove" every single sentence above. I was asked what I thought happened and, against my better judgment, I decided to reply.
 
A-Train said:
That is why they have high visibility. They are promoted by the mainstream media as the official representatives of the 9/11 truth movement because the ideas they promote are even more preposterous than the official story itself. [...]
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Pardon me, but Dylan Avery and company have been doing nothing but advertize themselves. They appear on every radio program available, maintain websites, mailing lists and sell their BS DVDs at every opportunity. The find cameras to stand in front of. In short, the mainstream media isn't presenting Loose Change, Loose Change is presenting itself to them. They want the publicity, they want the fame, and they want the money.
 
The Almond said:
Pardon me, but Dylan Avery and company have been doing nothing but advertize themselves. They appear on every radio program available, maintain websites, mailing lists and sell their BS DVDs at every opportunity. The find cameras to stand in front of. In short, the mainstream media isn't presenting Loose Change, Loose Change is presenting itself to them. They want the publicity, they want the fame, and they want the money.
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Further to your point, when the two groups converged on 9/11 at Ground Zero, with about 1,000 truthers and 1,000 mainstream media people, the truthers got zero MSM coverage. Dylan Avery complained that a Mexican newspaper gave their protest more coverage than all the U.S. media combined.
 
A-Train said:
I believe all four planes were hijacked by real people. They all ended up where the official story puts them. The phone calls from the planes are real, and reflect actual events on the planes. The hijackers were armed with guns as well as knives-- as indicated in several of the phone calls-- and were part of a sophisticated, well-planned operation far beyond the capability of al-Qaeda or any other Arab or Muslim group. The planes may have been piloted by the hijackers, or more likely, by a remote navigation system like Global Hawk.

The purpose of the operation was to frame Arab-Muslims for the crime of the century, and induce America to go to war in the Middle East.

Our President knew nothing of the attack, and today believes the official story told to him. High officials such as Rumsfeld and Cheney also were not involved in the attacks. Our military was not involved in the attacks. The NORAD standdown was accomplished by a very small number of disloyal officers-- maybe as few as one or two-- in the command structure who sent out garbled orders to the fighter pilots, making sure none would intercept any of the hijacked planes.

Please do not demand I "prove" every single sentence above. I was asked what I thought happened and, against my better judgment, I decided to reply.
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Thanks for replying, you're already ahead of all the regular twoofers we've seen here.

So you believe the events on 9/11 were, to an outside observer, essentially identical to the offical story? Is that basically correct?

So how can we distinguish it from the official story? What was it that lead you to believe this? What "proof" could there be to distinguish it?

I know you said, "Please do not demand I "prove" every single sentence above. I was asked what I thought happened and, against my better judgment, I decided to reply", but really, there must be some reason you believe as you do, right? Even if it's not "proof" that we would accept, you've got to have some reason.

What info do you have that leads you to this conclusion? It must not be anything publically available, as you state you think even the President believes the official story. So what info, even in theory, could you have?
 
A-Train said:
were part of a sophisticated, well-planned operation far beyond the capability of al-Qaeda or any other Arab or Muslim group.
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Believe it or not, there are plenty of groups, not just Arab and Muslim, that have the capabilities of committing these same attacks that happened. I think you shouldn't look at what religion the hijackers were, but rather what their statement was to the US when they committed these attacks. They despise the US not because of their freedoms or economic power, but because of the double standard they have in regards to Israel vs. the rest of the Middle East.
 
A-Train said:
I believe all four planes were hijacked by real people. They all ended up where the official story puts them. The phone calls from the planes are real, and reflect actual events on the planes. The hijackers were armed with guns as well as knives-- as indicated in several of the phone calls-- and were part of a sophisticated, well-planned operation far beyond the capability of al-Qaeda or any other Arab or Muslim group. The planes may have been piloted by the hijackers, or more likely, by a remote navigation system like Global Hawk.

The purpose of the operation was to frame Arab-Muslims for the crime of the century, and induce America to go to war in the Middle East.

Our President knew nothing of the attack, and today believes the official story told to him. High officials such as Rumsfeld and Cheney also were not involved in the attacks. Our military was not involved in the attacks. The NORAD standdown was accomplished by a very small number of disloyal officers-- maybe as few as one or two-- in the command structure who sent out garbled orders to the fighter pilots, making sure none would intercept any of the hijacked planes.

Please do not demand I "prove" every single sentence above. I was asked what I thought happened and, against my better judgment, I decided to reply.
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Ok I'd just to ask you where you base your opinion on Al Qaeda.

You do realise that this group was actually named after the famous lions den base, hence the name the base. It was formed from the Mujahideen Arab Fighters that fought against the Red Army for ten years and beat them.

I actually find it somewhat amazing that you are unable to recognise such a group. I equally so find hard to believe that you cannot see that UBL who actually fought as part of the Arab Afghan for a ten year period was unable to organise such an operation.

In his time in Afghanistan he raised literally billions for the fight against the Soviet Union. He was funded from many places, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and yes even the USA funnelled massive funds over to the Mujahideen in the belief that they were backing a winning horse, i.e. the good guys.

Why have you got such a low opinion of battle hardened fighters that waged war against a super power for ten years and beat them? Where do you think they all got trained, got their funds from? The west happy supported the Mujahideen, they happy supplied them with funds and were quite happy to see them kick the Soviets asses.

Think they all live in caves?
 
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Your interpretation of what happened in Afghanistan is completely wrong. Al-Qaeda did indeed fight the Soviets there. But the Soviets were beaten by the Afghans, not al-Qaeda. It is the Afghans who have a legendary reputation for martial skill, not the Arabs. The Arabs have lost nearly every war they've fought since the early days of Islam. Their reputation for military incompetence is well deserved. They are well known to be completely inept in all operations involving technology, logistics, coordination-- and they are the first to admit it. Their contribution, via al-Qaeda, to such battlegrounds as Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya, is mostly as religious trainers. They are often laughed at and patronized by the real fighters they encounter in these nations.

No doubt Osama bin Laden raised a lot of money for the cause of various Muslim insurrections. He's was a rich man with a lot of rich friends in the oil-rich Gulf region. But raising money is a whole different thing from fighting a war, or orchestrating a complex, well-scychronized attack like 9/11.
 
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