The Bible is 100% true and to be read literally

[edge]

Actually, edge could have been having a joke. On another thread edge once wrote **** which could have been the S word or the F word. It was never clear which he meant but the S word seemed not to fit as well as the F word. Edge was implying he meant the S word. He has repeated this here but leaving in the F this time. So, I think he may be having a good laugh.

PS: Paulhoff was involved in that discussion.

Billy joe hows it going?

It was a good one.
It proved that every one has a little bit of faith in what they believe.

 

[edge]

Wondering, yes I'm wondering why you read something that isn't there. You seem to be the one who has the problem the word faith and wants to put only religion with it.

Paul

I have no problem with the word you are the one getting angry.

 

[Paul]

It proved that every one has a little bit of faith in what they believe.

It has nothing to do with faith or belief, it is standard practise in written English and is therefore a matter of experience or knowledge.

 

[fuelair]

Your doing a good job of f***ing up already so I think you need not worry about what takes place there.

Nor, with that attitude - and assuming I have read the bibble aright (RSV and New English IIRC) - will you. I seem to remember the G guy saying - in one of his avatars - something vague about him making the decisions as to placement but here you are apparantly letting people know their destination without waiting for him to decide. Who made you his BBoy?

 

[edge]

It has nothing to do with faith or belief, it is standard practise in written English and is therefore a matter of experience or knowledge.

So now you are a mind reader?

What am I saying now because one of you f****** up!

 

[edge]

Nor, with that attitude - and assuming I have read the bibble aright (RSV and New English IIRC) - will you. I seem to remember the G guy saying - in one of his avatars - something vague about him making the decisions as to placement but here you are apparantly letting people know their destination without waiting for him to decide. Who made you his BBoy?

From his post,

There are suppose to be fallen angels too, so this so-called god can't make and or get anything right.

 

[Taffer]

I have a few questions for you, edge:

1) How can you distinguish between then illusion of free will and true free will?
2) How can you distinguish between true free will, and complete determinism?
3) How do you know we are not completely deterministic robots?

No offense intended, but using the quote function does make posts easier to read.

1) Self-control my choice. You have the true free will of putting your hand in a fire but would you, knowing the consequences?

This has no relation to free will. A simple computer program could serve the same function. All this is, is consequence prediction, a fairly menial task. Please explain how this related to free will.

There is no illusion of free will it is a fact. There fore it must be true.

You have not made an argument here, you have just made an assertion with now evidence to back it up. Provide evidence that we have free will and not the illusion of free will.

2) Know what God said to do and deter others from doing evil. Complete determinism could lead to insane actions complete deterioration of your spirit.

This is a nonsense statement. How does "determinism lead to ... complete deterioration of your spirit"? An easy way to make me understand this would be to define what you mean by "spirit".

3) Skeptics are determined not to use their free will wisely by being unfaithful and not choosing the free insurance of the redemption of their souls offered by Christ.

This is not an argument, but an assertion with no merit. Please explain how this provides a compelling argument for the existance of true free will?

4) We have been given a second chance to fellowship with God the Father and the Son.

Please, stop preaching and answer my questions.

A robot didn’t create us or we would be machine, automated not capable of reproducing or creating, making any choices.

Your logic is entirely flawed. What compelling reason do you have to believe that a robot can not reproduce, create or make choices? Also, why do you think that that we are asserting a robot created us? I certainly have never said such a thing.

We were made in the image of God capable of creating. A robot wouldn’t be able to understand emotions,feelings of others and loneliness.

And if you met a robot which showed every sign of feeling emotions, creativity and empathy, then how would you distinguish it from a human? What reason do you have to think that robots could not feel emotions?

5) There would be no reason for a robot to replicate it’s self, it is automated.

I can think of many reasons why a robot might wish to replicate itself. Also, please explain what you mean by "automated".

A robot doesn’t understand but we do.

Are you saying that no robot could ever 'understand'? What reason do you have for thinking this? Also, what do you mean by "understand"?

Robots do not have spirit; if a robot deteriorates it’s done.

Please define "spirit", and provide evidence that we have one.

A robot can’t operate on faith knowing that there is something greater than them to rely on. A robot can’t look to his future death. We have an innate desire to praise God with out taking away our free will.

Please provide evidence that a robot could not do this.

6) There are many meanings to this word, determinism.

Not in the sense I used it. Please do not dodge the question, I would like an answer if it is not too much trouble.

3) How do you know we are not completely deterministic robots?

Determinism

n. The philosophical doctrine that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.

 

[Paul]

So now you are a mind reader?

I'm not the one claiming the supernatural; you're making ridiculous connections between knowledge of common practise and faith in the unknown.

What am I saying now because one of you f****** up!

You're saying that you think you're smarter than you are, and you seem to think you've made some clever point that you haven't.

 

[Taffer]

Now let me ask you a question,

Of course, I'm happy to answer any questions you have, just as long as you are willing to do the same.

Does your child make right choices?

Please define "right".

How does God with all his powers look at us in comparison?

Compared with some one that has a capability to create universes, what are we like in comparison?

I don't know, but I think your point is moot without first evidence that the universe was 'created' in the first place.

Would you give your child total free will with out consequences?

What I would do is irrelevant. Stop skirting the issue and answer my questions, please. How can you tell the difference between 'true free will', and the deterministic illusion of free will?

 

[Paul]

Edge, a number of us have now replied to the same post with responses to your points, all different you'll notice, proving that we're not told what to say by anyone else, but you have avoided answering our questions.

Could you please stop obsessing about masked profanity and address the issues.

 

[Taffer]

U238

I'm assuming you're meaning radioactive decay, here. I also assume this is not a response to "how do you tell the difference between true free will and the illusion of free will", but to "how do we know we're not living in a completely deterministic universe".

This is, of course, the answer I would have given. If, in fact, radioactive decay is truely random, then the universe is not completely deterministic. However, all it precludes is a completely determinstic universe.

It should also be clear that true randomness does not give rise to free will.

Taffer's a good Kiwi tax-bludger, he asks good questions.

Y'know mate, I don't actually bludge that much. I do have to pay back the money I borrow, after all.

 

[The Atheist]

I'm assuming you're meaning radioactive decay, here. I also assume this is not a response to "how do you tell the difference between true free will and the illusion of free will",

Didn't think it was worth answering, personally! You'd have to define "free will" first.

but to "how do we know we're not living in a completely deterministic universe".
This is, of course, the answer I would have given. If, in fact, radioactive decay is truely random, then the universe is not completely deterministic. However, all it precludes is a completely determinstic universe.

Yep, just that. Still, multiply one quantum event by an almost infinitely large number and who knows what the results might be? It does give rise to decent speculation, which determinism doesn't.

It should also be clear that true randomness does not give rise to free will.

Quite right - chalk & cheese.

Y'know mate, I don't actually bludge that much. I do have to pay back the money I borrow, after all.

LOL! You're obviously a typical example of that fine institution, an honest man keen to repay the student loan. Not like that other bloke at the agrarian college up north!

 

[Taffer]

Didn't think it was worth answering, personally! You'd have to define "free will" first.

Well, this is partially my point. It is nigh on impossible to define. I contend that this is because it is impossible to tell if it really exists in the first place.

Yep, just that. Still, multiply one quantum event by an almost infinitely large number and who knows what the results might be?

Unfortunately, as soon as you have one truely random event in a series of events, it is impossible to speculate on the outcome. That is, obviously, the point of true randomness.

It does give rise to decent speculation, which determinism doesn't.

I disagree, but that's just me. I can live with a deterministic universe, and I can live with a universe which is mostly deterministic, except for random elements like radioactive decay. There are those, however, who cannot accept determinism in any form as it excludes free will.

LOL! You're obviously a typical example of that fine institution, an honest man keen to repay the student loan. Not like that other bloke at the agrarian college up north!

Are you kidding me? I'm fleeing the country and faking my own death as soon as I am able!

 

[The Atheist]

Well, this is partially my point. It is nigh on impossible to define. I contend that this is because it is impossible to tell if it really exists in the first place.

Precisely.

Unfortunately, as soon as you have one truely random event in a series of events, it is impossible to speculate on the outcome. That is, obviously, the point of true randomness.

Yep, that's why we have gambling!

I disagree, but that's just me. I can live with a deterministic universe, and I can live with a universe which is mostly deterministic, except for random elements like radioactive decay. There are those, however, who cannot accept determinism in any form as it excludes free will.

That's how I see it. Free will doesn't bother me too much, I just like random cause/events. Gambler, you see. U238 just keeps the jury out.

Are you kidding me? I'm fleeing the country and faking my own death as soon as I am able!

We can track you down like a rabid dog. I bet you're young enough to have been one of the early implant recipients. 1983, it started.

 

[BillyJoe]

Free will is something that is impossible to define but everyone knows what it is. Of course there are some sceptics who still wish to hold on to free will and they succeed in doing so only by defining it to mean almost the opposite of what everyone knows free will to be, thereby confusing the issue even further. But, of course, deterministic macro events plus random quantum events cannot add up to free will whatefer way you look at it.

 

[BillyJoe]

Billy joe hows it going?

It was a good one.
It proved that every one has a little bit of faith in what they believe.

Howdy.

Don't worry mate, I know what you mean even if those excuses for sceptics pretend they don't.

As you say, everyone has faith.

If it's not faith in God, it's faith that science works the way it is supposed to. Most of us wouldn't know the front end of a subatomic particle from the ass end of a electron cloud. We have faith that science does. We have faith that peer review will give us reliable results. The material products of scientific research, without which we could not survive these days, reassure us that our faith is not misplaced. But sometimes there are surprises around the corner and a sceptic has to pay attention to that possiblity every step of the way. Dismissive attitudes can come back to bite them in the ass. Unfortunately many here do not seem to realize that fact.

In any case, yes, we all have faith in one form or another.
(Wake up you lot, the message is loud and clear.)

 

[Taffer]

Precisely.
Yep, that's why we have gambling!
That's how I see it. Free will doesn't bother me too much, I just like random cause/events. Gambler, you see. U238 just keeps the jury out.

We can track you down like a rabid dog. I bet you're young enough to have been one of the early implant recipients. 1983, it started.

I had one of those, but I had it removed by a large african man with a very small knife. It hurt quite a lot.

 

[Taffer]

Free will is something that is impossible to define but everyone knows what it is. Of course there are some sceptics who still wish to hold on to free will and they succeed in doing so only by defining it to mean almost the opposite of what everyone knows free will to be, thereby confusing the issue even further. But, of course, deterministic macro events plus random quantum events cannot add up to free will whatefer way you look at it.

Exactly.

 

[Belz...]

Whatever we hide in our hearts reflects in our behavior

Well, well. Another piece of psycho nonsense.

What I have is faith in Jesus Christ the lord.
I follow no religion.

Contradiction.

There is a difference in having faith in the truth and having faith in a religious denomination, or religion.
Religion is mans manipulation of faith.

Then you have no way to know how altered the bible has become BECAUSE of religion.

The Bible is as true as it can be.

I'd say we agree on THAT.

That's what happened when he gave us free will.

Irrelevant. He should've seen it coming.

Just because I’m a believer doesn’t mean that I’m not skeptical.

Why, yes. Yes it does.

Unfortunately we were stupid enough to listen to the jealous guy you know the one that tells you what to post.

It might interest you to know that the serpent was telling the truth in Genesis, and that God was lying.

You might also want to avoid the contradiction of claiming we have free will while simultaneously claiming that the devil is making me do what I do.

 

[Belz...]

Would you give your child total free will with out consequences?

If I did, I wouldn't punish him or her for making their own choice.