Confronted Homeopaths, Did Not Go Well

[vIQleS]

But surely to overdose on homoeopathic medicine, you would have to take less than the prescribed dose, not more. In homoeopathic nonsense, the more dilute a remedy is, the more potent it is...

I thought about this for a debate that was being tossed around as an idea for a midwinter library staff christmas party (they decided that a debate would be too depressing and settled for a quiz instead)...

My idea was that rather than take the whole lot in one 'dose' I would have gradually consumed as many as i could (in the prescribed dosage) over the course of the whole debate - at intervals of 5-10 minutes or something...

Would that have killed me?

 

[vIQleS]

Perhaps the laws in the Great Land Down Under are more forgiving of trespassers than in the Empire State. If an employee tells you to leave the store, you leave the store--especially under these circumstances. If not, they will most likely call the police because you are then trespassing. The police will either give you a warning or a summons to appear, or maybe even arrest you.

Wow. Your police force must be phenomenally more efficient then those down under (NZ anyway). I've actually worked as undercover security, and I've personally waited for about 2 and a half hours for the police to show up to arrest a shoplifter... They never actually came on that occasion.

Seriously if they ever did think about calling the police, surely you've got at least 5 minutes to be out of the shop and down the road before they get there...


Plan B, of course, is to not be an ass, and try and get them to realize how silly they sound when they're explaining it by asking questions... Can't get trespassed for asking questions... (well, if the law's anything like NZ you probably can actually, but if you preface each question with something like "according to my racial/gender/sexuality.." it'd be harder "

 

[BPSCG]

I'm a trial lawyer. And a good one. Tenacity can sometimes be a virtue when it would otherwise be a vice.

Wow. So what do the jurors do when you...

...get too anxious, grab the other person by the throat and shout, "Agree with me, agree with me, agree with me!"

I would think the judge presiding would have a problem with that...

 

[BPSCG]

I'm sure this debate will go on forever.

Why? Is Claus here?

 

[Loss Leader]

I would think the judge presiding would have a problem with that.

No, it's pretty effective.

 

[Davo]

dilution

Aside from the actual dilution, ask what is the water source for the dilution ?, is it PURE water?

If answer is No, then it meets that other chemicals would be combined in the homeopathic mix.

If the answer is Yes, ask how they obtain PURE water. Whatever method they suggest will be contrary to the basis of homeopathy and the waters "memory".

 

[jimbob]

Seems to me there's not much point in trying to persuade the lady at the homeopath kiosk. She's a true believer. You could have bought and gulped down the entire display without incident and she still wouldn't be persuaded she's selling bottled water and sugar tablets. You might as well try to prove logically to an evangelical that his religion makes no sense.

Bump it up to the store owner? Either the store owner buys into homeopathy, also, or doesn't care if it works or not as long as it's harmless to the customers and profitable to him.

Now, if there were a dozen customers at the kiosk, and you were to buy a homeopathic headache "remedy" and start, right there, in front of everyone, silently taking one tablet after another...

But that might get you thrown out of the store, too, and there's nothing you can do about it if it isn't your store. But you knew that already.

You could set up a table outside your local TV news station offices and invite them to come film. You'd have a large pitcher of water, a couple of bottles of woo tabs, and a sign in front of the table saying, "Watch Me (Try To) Commit Suicide By Homeopathic Headache Remedy Overdose."

Be sure Eyewitless News is there and filming before you start.

Then start popping the pills, one right after another (if the bottle has a couple of hundred pills in it, you can do two or three at a time). Have snarky comments ready: "Gee, imagine what would happen if I were popping aspirins like this." "Good thing these homeopathic things don't work." "Don't bother calling 911, but could you call Gino's Pizza? I'm kinda hungry." "Gee, these homeopathic pills taste just like sugar..." "I'm running low on these homeopathic pills and I still have that headache. Here's nine bucks; can you get me some more? And keep the change."

Use the word "homeopathic" as much as possible.

Didn't some Australians actually do that

but with homeopathic Arsenic?

The homeopaths actually warned them against this, which is odd as I'd have thought that if Arsenic can kill you, homeopathic quantities should logically (Ah I see the problem) keep you alive for ever...

Jim

 

[jimtron]

If the answer is Yes, ask how they obtain PURE water. Whatever method they suggest will be contrary to the basis of homeopathy and the waters "memory".

That's one thing I've wanted to ask proponents of homeopathy--how do you "erase" the "memory" of the water that you're using to make the remedy?

 

[valis]

It's always been my experience that facts and science make homeopaths angry. I've not yet found a way to confront a homeopath with scientific information that doesn't make said homeopath mad. I've noticed the same thing you mentioned too, they always begin talking about something that is not related in anyway to the topic or question I've posed. I guess when scientific proof isn't on your side, it could make you testy.

Basically walking in to their store and challenging them is going to make them angry and is in my opinion pointless. I don't for a second believe in homeopathy but I also don't thing you are ever going to change someone's mind in that setting. Any challenge to them in their own store is going to cause them to be defensive. If you really just want to enlighten them because you are trying to be helpful I would find a way to email or write them and invite them to debate or discuss the matter with in a more private manner.

It's natural for people to get defensive in that setting. If I walked into the local Ford dealer and proclaimed that the Mustang was not half the car the Corvette is and that you might as well buy a used escort and pocket the difference; I would not expect a reasonable calm debate. I would expect a hostile attitude and an invitation to leave. Even though what I stated was factually correct.

They probably can't be convinced and don't want your help or guidance and challenging them in their place of business is rude and wil not go well.

 

[hipparchia]

Remember that scene from the movie "Simone" when Simone was supposed to disgrace herself and make people mad, so she said she liked to eat dolphin? Well, if the chick said "Astrology is bull and homeopathy doesn't work", she may have succeeded.

Anyway, besides waiting myself to hear that dolphins are stupid enough to be included in supermarket offerings, I have learned that homeopathy fans are a fanatical bunch. I prefer not to touch the subject, after a heated battle in a forum. Let me quote: "If you even DARE to give homeopathic medicine to your brother, unknown to him, in order to test it, we will ban you from the forum".

I still have a bottle of sugar pills I used to test on myself. Really, I almost convinced myseld the rapid heart beat was due to the medicine but...oh, I know, I had that third coffee for the day.

Anyway, a first aid for homeopathic overdose...a learned homeopathic salesman would have pounced on you and forced you to chew a piece of spearmint bubblegum. Menthol is supposed to magically erase all effects of homeo drugs...well.

My pet peeve is pregnant women using homeopathy drugs because they are "gentler".

 

[Professor Yaffle]

My pet peeve is pregnant women using homeopathy drugs because they are "gentler".

The problem is that pregant women are told they aren't allowed to take pretty much any real drug, so a nice little placebo is the best they can do. I was offered homeopathy rather than anti depressants in pregnancy. I replied that I didn't believe in it, and the doctor replied that it probably wouldn't help me much then!

 

[NobbyNobbs]

If that were true can you imagine how dangerous drinking water from the tap would be?

Because any molecule of any medically potent substance that has interacted with the population's drinking water supply would, given enough time and dilution, become like a plague to the people. Which begs the question, does a homeopath who washes, say, a coffee cup in the sink think to himself, "I know that this is just going to make a lot of people drowsy somewhere down the line, but I just can't bring myself to properly dispose of this caffeine."

I'm sure there's some silly theory about how water has to be in a container and blah blah blah...it's still stupid, and kinda funny.

Has anyone ever received an answer to this? I've always wondered about the rational. I don't know any homeopathy believers to ask.

I had a minor homeopathic confrontation earlier this week. I needed to take my kid to the doctor and afterwards stopped off at the nearest pharmacy to pick up the prescription. While waiting in line I was asked if I'd like to sign a petition in favour of "saving" homeopathy - it seems that the Swiss health insurers have decided not to reimburse sugar tablets any longer and so patients are having to bear the cost themselves*.

I politely declined and the young lady asked me why, so I explained that in my opinion, and that of a lot of senior physicians and researchers, sugar tablets were not of any use whatsoever. The reply was that "lots of people believe that it works", so it was clear then that the discussion was going down a fruitless path. I merely commented that if they believed the treatment was effective, they should be prepared to pay for it, and left it at that. With family members I've had some quite detailed debates about the subject, but figured that this was neither the time nor the place.





* I know that Flo of this forum works in the Swiss health system and can correct me if I'm wrong or add more details.

I think you handled that quite well.

I agree with Athon. It's hopeless. Give it up, except possibly for some chuckle value.

~~ Paul

Until alt meds are subject to the same stringent testing and regulation as real meds, nothing will change. The issue is a multidimensional one, encompassing religion, economics, and politics.

Confronting people in stores may give you a momentary rush, but ultimately achieves nothing.

M.

Lift your leg. Let a good one rip and leave the store. Why bother with crooks that don't want to hear their product is as useless as they are.

I respectfully disagree with you guys on this. By saying "what's the point of arguing", you are giving up the good fight. You may as well then say "What's the point of having this entire forum?" The point is that, while the person you argue with will never be convinced, the next person in line may overhear something that will change their mind. Just as Christophera will never be convinced, but I'm sure there are lurkers that are.

Others have said this same thing better than I can, but you know what I mean.