Confronted Homeopaths, Did Not Go Well

Check the back of the bottle, if it's really homeopathic, the ingredients will be shown as "x10" or "x100" denoting the level of dilution. Some brands, like Zicam, have some of their products labeled homeopathic and some not, of those that are labelled homeopathic most but not all are dilutions.
 
Nicely done Loss Leader. Post got me a-thinkin'.

First, one can pretty easily determine whether or not a substance is homeopathic or not by the simple means quixotecoyote mentioned. And/or do a little googling beforehand just to be safe.

I wonder,though, if loss leader had swallowed the whole bottle in front of this woman, would she have called for medical assistance? If not, he would have called her bluff and could have declared "moral victory." (But I'm sure the euphoria would have been short-lived and he'd then just have to awkwardly exit the store $9.00 lighter).

On the other hand, what if a handful of nutty skeptics arranged to repeat the experiment in multiple pharmacies/drugstores in the same city, or at the same establishment? If they loudly announced, "having consumed this bottle of homeopathic sleeping aid, I will now retire to my apartment for the evening, where, incidentally, I will be alone and without access to a working telephone or emergency services" eventually some believer is going to call 9-11 for help.

Besides disrupting the 9-11 system--which is my excuse for not pulling the stunt--said skeptics could make their voices heard pretty clearly. Maybe the local news picks the story up? "Tonight at 11, skeptics cause panic at local drugstore." COOL.

After all, Randi did it in front of congress and nobody seemed to notice much.

Anybody game? Again, I'm not. Just sayin'.
 
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But surely to overdose on homoeopathic medicine, you would have to take less than the prescribed dose, not more. In homoeopathic nonsense, the more dilute a remedy is, the more potent it is...
 
Professor Yaffle said:
But surely to overdose on homoeopathic medicine, you would have to take less than the prescribed dose, not more. In homoeopathic nonsense, the more dilute a remedy is, the more potent it is...
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Whoah! That's why I'm so tired. I took absolutely none of any insomnia medication, so I've obviously taken an infinite dose. I'm surprised I'm still alive. :eye-poppi

It must be the infinite amount of "General Wellness" homeopathic crap that I've also taken.;)
 
Just a note on overdose: Don't voluntarily overdose a homeopathic remedy unless you have made sure it is a pure homeopathic preparation. There is a lot of mixopathic stuff out there. Due to the legal leniency on homeopathy (which is because they are assumed to be harmless), a lot of things are marketed as "homeopathic" but actually contains lots of strange stuff besides a homeopathic preparation.

Hans
 
Same to you! How are you doing? (I'm about to leave for China, so I may not read your reply till much later)

Hans
 
Professor Yaffle said:
But surely to overdose on homoeopathic medicine, you would have to take less than the prescribed dose, not more. In homoeopathic nonsense, the more dilute a remedy is, the more potent it is...
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If that were true can you imagine how dangerous drinking water from the tap would be? :D

Because any molecule of any medically potent substance that has interacted with the population's drinking water supply would, given enough time and dilution, become like a plague to the people. Which begs the question, does a homeopath who washes, say, a coffee cup in the sink think to himself, "I know that this is just going to make a lot of people drowsy somewhere down the line, but I just can't bring myself to properly dispose of this caffeine." :eek:

I'm sure there's some silly theory about how water has to be in a container and blah blah blah...it's still stupid, and kinda funny.
 
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What should you have done? Picked a fight you had a chance of winning.

There's nothing you could have done in that situation. Calm explanation, violent ranting...any action would have been seen as an antagonisation of their belief. The best you might have hoped for would have been a brief, friendly conversation that would have led to you making a statement that would stump them for a response, causing them to a) get angry, or b) simply state one of those infuriating 'you're entitled to your opinion' answers.

This shopkeeper believes in homeopathy. End of story. Nothing you say will change that.

Next time, if anything, act interested and ask for their opinions so you are better informed next time you encounter a fight you have some chance of making headway in. Such as with a fence-sitter.

Athon
 
Liken said:
If that were true can you imagine how dangerous drinking water from the tap would be? :D

Because any molecule of any medically potent substance that has interacted with the population's drinking water supply would, given enough time and dilution, become like a plague to the people. Which begs the question, does a homeopath who washes, say, a coffee cup in the sink think to himself, "I know that this is just going to make a lot of people drowsy somewhere down the line, but I just can't bring myself to properly dispose of this caffeine." :eek:

I'm sure there's some silly theory about how water has to be in a container and blah blah blah...it's still stupid, and kinda funny.
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Ah, but apparently you have to shake it in a special way to potentise it. You lot need to seriously read up on your woo before you challenge anyone like this!
 
Can't imagine that it would make much difference, but you could always point out that Europe's largest Homeopathic Hospital is facing closure due to the funding bodies "belief that scientific evidence of effectiveness for homeopathy and other complementary therapies is lacking"

http://www.thecnj.com/camden/health.html
 
Bubble said:
I find most self proclaimed critical thinkers actually are embarisingly irrational, reactionairy, and horribly intuitive when they are confronted with a three value logic or truth system.
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You mean such as: it's true; it's false; I like to think so?

~~ Paul
 
Seems to me there's not much point in trying to persuade the lady at the homeopath kiosk. She's a true believer. You could have bought and gulped down the entire display without incident and she still wouldn't be persuaded she's selling bottled water and sugar tablets. You might as well try to prove logically to an evangelical that his religion makes no sense.

Bump it up to the store owner? Either the store owner buys into homeopathy, also, or doesn't care if it works or not as long as it's harmless to the customers and profitable to him.

Now, if there were a dozen customers at the kiosk, and you were to buy a homeopathic headache "remedy" and start, right there, in front of everyone, silently taking one tablet after another...

But that might get you thrown out of the store, too, and there's nothing you can do about it if it isn't your store. But you knew that already.

You could set up a table outside your local TV news station offices and invite them to come film. You'd have a large pitcher of water, a couple of bottles of woo tabs, and a sign in front of the table saying, "Watch Me (Try To) Commit Suicide By Homeopathic Headache Remedy Overdose."

Be sure Eyewitless News is there and filming before you start.

Then start popping the pills, one right after another (if the bottle has a couple of hundred pills in it, you can do two or three at a time). Have snarky comments ready: "Gee, imagine what would happen if I were popping aspirins like this." "Good thing these homeopathic things don't work." "Don't bother calling 911, but could you call Gino's Pizza? I'm kinda hungry." "Gee, these homeopathic pills taste just like sugar..." "I'm running low on these homeopathic pills and I still have that headache. Here's nine bucks; can you get me some more? And keep the change."

Use the word "homeopathic" as much as possible.
 
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Thanks to everyone who responded. I did abreviate my story and, in so doing, I left out that I probably did a pretty bad job of being convincing instead of confrontational.

shell said:
One of the best ways to get someone to listen to what you say and give you coherent feedback, is to start with common ground. ... Just keep in mind to break the person's argument down and not the person.
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This is great advice. Thanks. You are right; I didn't go in to convince, I went in to argue.
 
Bubblefish said:
We can get right to the heart of the matter real quick too if your interested. I find most self proclaimed critical thinkers actually are embarisingly irrational, reactionairy, and horribly intuitive when they are confronted with a three value logic or truth system. literally their arguments appear to crumble into complete nothingness, and often times I find them horribly guilty of magical thinking! Even Mr. Randi himself!
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Saying it again ... on a different thread ... doesn't make it so. You were asked to illustrate one argument that has crumbled in this way, just to illustrate your point, but you chose not to - refusing to "name names" (although names were never asked for).

Please provide an example of such an argument crumbling in such a way. I've yet to see one in that other thread. Only excuses ...
 
RSLancastr said:
Maybe you already know this, but I'll say it for the benefit of those who may not:

Not all medicinces with the label "homeopathic" are truly homeopathic. Some actually have active ingredients, and are simply using the word "homeopathic" as a marketing ploy.
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Yeah, I looked at it. It was a bunch of nonsense at 30x. No actual ingredients were present in any concentration. It was Hahnemann, so I'm pretty confident it was just lactose. Actually, my biggest fear about swallowing the whole bottle was that I'm lactose intolerant and I would need to slip in a lactaid pill.
 
geni said:
Eh I asssume they were doing the usual homeopathic=natural/herbal thing.
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Exactly my thoughts - the assistant was probably also doing the "natural=harmless" thing, and the (in woo land logical corollary) "man-made=harmful" thing also.

It would be great to know exactly what the assistant thinks "homeopathy" does mean. Maybe that's what you should have persued.
 
Bubblefish said:
So what ya' say cowboy, wanna rassle a woo? Please challenge me like you have never challenged anyone before. I mean kick me down, beat me up, show me the error of my ways!

I need a better challenge than I'm getting, and these guys could use some help, please feel free to jump on in!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73672
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Having reviewed the thread you linked to, please allow me to politely decline your invitation. It appears that you are not capable of understanding the error of your ways no matter how they are explained to you. Good luck in future endeavors.
 
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