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The Missiles at Ground Zero

Guys, guys, guys..let us at least note that MaGZ is at least presenting something different for our viewing pleasure and he at least has most of the facts right...it's just the ones he has manipulated to fit his scenario that concern us.

MaGZ, you might want to look a gravy or Gumboots timeline post (somebody will have the link) on the timing of the aircraft out of Otis that day and see that they were simply out of range to do anything about the second airliner crashing into the building, even if they had had a command to fire weapons, which remains an elusive part of your puzzle.

But for arguments sake, lets hypothesis that somehow the aircraft did get in range and did let go a couple of shots. How much damage would have been done.

The F-15's would have been carrying one of three Air-to-Air Missiles that day; the AIM 9L/M Sidewinder, the AIM 7F/M Sparrow, or the AIM-120 Slammer. Some facts, goggled by me in about 4 minutes, about each of them:

AIM-9L/M Sidewinder: Weight-190 Lbs. Speed-Mach 2.5 Warhead-20.8lb High Explosive (HE)

AIM-7L/M Sparrow: Weight-510lbs. Speed-Mach 4. Warhead-86lbs HE or 88 lbs Blast-Fragmentation (more about Blast Frag later)

AIM-120 Slammer: Weight 335-345lbs. Speed-Mach 4. Warhead-50 lbs Blast Frag.

Now, I will leave it to you or more mathematically inclined members of the Forum to figure out the amount of (kinetic and explosive) energy a missile might have imparted to a street (or a building). I would suggest you then compare it to, say, to pick a number from air, 10 tons of steel/concrete falling from an angled distance of say, 600 feet? (Please note, it is likely that much more than 10 tons of debris hit WTC7, but I want you to have the benefit of the doubt.). Which would exert more force, expend more kinetic energy, in all probablity do more damage?

Oh yes, Blast-Frag. High Explosive missiles have the warhead concentrated and primarily kill by blowing something apart. Blast Frag warheads also pack a punch, but are designed to scatter fragments and internal parts in a widening circle to maximize the damage (very popular against ships especially). If I had to try and shoot down an airline, I would choose Blast-Frag if I had a choice, but hitting a building (or a street) with a Blast Frag would tend to scatter bits of the missile all over the place, where inquisitive civilians (police/firemen/survivors) could find them.

You at least, for now, have something completely different; but you are going to need a lot more to convince us that this is something for serious consideration. A Lot More.
 
MaGZ said:
Another possible reason to pull WTC 7 would have been to protect classified information contained in the government offices there.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I love this sentence. It is so subtly evil that it makes The Protocols of the Elders of Zion look like the Rachel Leigh Cook episodes of Dawson's Creek. I explain:

"Pull" actually has a meaning in the CD world. It means to pull down a building using cables without explosives. So, the famous Silverstein quote, "Pull it," means nothing because WTC7 was certainly not brought down with cables. What does the Conspiraloon do? He hijacks the term "pull" after the fact and begins using it to describe the CD of a building using explosives. He wants to conflate the meanings of "pull" and hope that nobody remembers a time when "pull" meant "TO USE CABLES."

It's just so ... evil.

The government may have teams of demolition experts on standby for emergency situations. If a structure were damaged by fire, earthquake, or some other disaster, expert teams could arrive on the scene, place explosives in predesignated areas, and quickly bring the building down.
Click to expand...

That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Who put together these teams?
Are they military or civilian?
How many teams are there?
Why would demolition teams have to bring down a structure in a hurry if it were likely to collapse just a short time after?
Since the teams exist for natural disasters, why would they have a plan to rush the debris out to hide their own existence?
How did the teams get to New York on 9/11?
When did they enter the building?
How did they enter the building undetected?
How did they exit the building undetected?
If they were disguised as firefighters, how did they avoid being ordered around by the real firefighters?
If they were disguised as firefighters, wouldn't there be som discrepancy in the FDNY's records as to who was in WTC7 that day?
If the team thought it was doing a public service by destroying a badly damaged building, why would it hide its own existence?

I'm exhausted.
 
MaGZ said:
Another possible reason to pull WTC 7 would have been to protect classified information contained in the government offices there. The government may have teams of demolition experts on standby for emergency situations.
Click to expand...

Protect classified info contained in government offices? Protect it from who, themselves? Oh and where is your evidence that the Gov. may have demo teams on stand by? Or are you just making things up?
 
Hutch,
You might want to read a description of the damage done to the southern face of WTC 7 and determine which type of missile was used.

Also take a look at the NOAA photo of Ground Zero (large file) Look at the parking area northwest of WTC where the burnt cars are. Find the black crater caused by the missile from the second fighter.
 
Loss Leader said:
"Pull" actually has a meaning in the CD world. It means to pull down a building using cables without explosives..."Pull it," means nothing because WTC7 was certainly not brought down with cables.
Click to expand...

Careful - you don't want to go giving CTists ideas...
 
MaGZ said:
Hutch,
You might want to read a description of the damage done to the southern face of WTC 7 and determine which type of missile was used.

Also take a look at the NOAA photo of Ground Zero (large file) Look at the parking area northwest of WTC where the burnt cars are. Find the black crater caused by the missile from the second fighter.
Click to expand...

Where is your proof of a missile? A few witnesses that don't know what they're talking about?
 
I am sure someone, will check me on this. Were those planes even armed? The ones going to Shanks were not. The pilots discussed what to do, like ramming it etc... Not sure if these are the same.
 
So Dog Town,

You are starting to have your doubts of the official story.
 
MaGZ said:
Hutch,
You might want to read a description of the damage done to the southern face of WTC 7 and determine which type of missile was used.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum MaGZ, I'm sorry but did I misread what you said? Are you actually suggesting a missile was fired at WTC 7?
 
A question for everyone here.

Would the Government ever lie to you?
 
MaGZ said:
Hutch,
You might want to read a description of the damage done to the southern face of WTC 7 and determine which type of missile was used.

Also take a look at the NOAA photo of Ground Zero (large file) Look at the parking area northwest of WTC where the burnt cars are. Find the black crater caused by the missile from the second fighter.
Click to expand...


Your therory, you do the math and research to defend it, I have simply provided information on what missiles might be part of your hypothesis and provided facts about them (we really, really, really like facts here). You tell me if one of those missiles packed the necessary force to do the damage you specify it did....and why a mass of steel/concrete falling from a height could not do the same damage.

You made a hypothesis; it is not incumbent upon us to defend it; indeed, our part is to test it to breaking (and this is looking Tacoma Narrows shaky right now, IMHO)

Your hypothesis has to survive challenges, most much tougher than this very mild critique.

As I have told other CT'ers before; don't bring pictures and videos to a Math and Physics argument.
 
Stateofgrace,

The two fighters tried to shootdown the second hijacked plane.

They both missed. One missile hit WTC 7 and the other missile hit in the open parking area northwest of WTC (see NOAA photo)
 
MaGZ said:
A question for everyone here.

Would the Government ever lie to you?
Click to expand...

Lol. You act as if the government is one single entity with a brain all of its own. The government is composed of people. Human beings. The government is not some big scary machine. Are there bad people out there? Yes. Do people lie? Yes. Now does this mean that the people in government wanted to murder thousands of people? It sure doesn't.
 
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