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Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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LAL wrote:
Nice new avatar.
Thanks Lu! :) Glad you like it...
Mine's one of my paintings, BTW. We must be ready for Spring.
And it's a beautiful piece of work, Lu. ;)
Springtime SOUNDS good to me...bring it on!

So little of the evidence even gets discussed. That must give some the impression there's very little.
Greg's under the impression that there's absolutely NO EVIDENCE whatsoever, anywhere, for Bigfoot's existence.
I wish I had his insight....but I just can't help but think that some people who report seeing these creatures MIGHT actually be telling the truth!!
It's a defect in my brain that I have to live with...sadly. :(
 
Did you try the slow simmer with red wine and basil yet?

Nope, but it sounds pretty good.

A friend took a black bear roast and smoked it for a while, then put it in the prressure cooker. I got a taste of that, and it was just out of this world.

I wish Mrs. Huntster would have gotten a taste of that..........

BTW, I didn't know you painted that beautiful avatar. I love it. Black-capped chickadees are among my favorite little buddies around here.

I like SweatyYeti's new avatar, too. Beautiful.
 
Greg's under the impression that there's absolutely NO EVIDENCE whatsoever, anywhere, for Bigfoot's existence.
I wish I had his insight....but I just can't help but think that some people who report seeing these creatures MIGHT actually be telling the truth!!
It's a defect in my brain that I have to live with...sadly. :(

And there's no evidence whatsoever Greg's opinion has any value.

I've been reading Peter Byrne's book again. It's particulary relevant for me because I've met him and I know the area about which he mostly writes. He notes the coast country of British Columbia alone could contain all of the Nepal Himalaya and the Sikkim and Bhutan ranges as well.

He names the witnesses, gives details of the interviews, describes the circumstances. One of his reports was of one crossing Hwy 14 near Beacon Rock. It's not the one that got my attention all those years ago, but it's nearly the same location.

images


The State Park is 4650-acres. It's pretty much all forest around there.

There was a discussion on salmon earlier - they die after spawning. Easy pickings for bear or sas. All the rivers along that part of the Columbia have salmon runs.

Do you suppose people near the Cascade Crest have a greater tendency to hallucinate than anywhere else in the country?
 
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BTW, I didn't know you painted that beautiful avatar. I love it. Black-capped chickadees are among my favorite little buddies around here.

I'll never forget a bushful right outside the door in Washington.

The one thing I missed was the cardinals. But the first bird I saw when I moved here was a cardinal. I have a pair. The male about kills himself every spring trying to battle his reflection in windows.
 
I've been reading Peter Byrne's book again. It's particulary relevant for me because I've met him and I know the area about which he mostly writes. He notes the coast country of British Columbia alone could contain all of the Nepal Himalaya and the Sikkim and Bhutan ranges as well.

A point lost on many people. Also Nepal alone has a human population of over 27 million whereas British Columbia has less than 4 and a half million. But wait, scoftics will note that the human population of Nepal is largely condensed into particular areas of abundance whereas British Columbia's is........oh its the same, perhaps even more so LOL. More vegetation and cover as well.:D
 
Nice new avatar. Mine's one of my paintings, BTW. We must be ready for Spring.

So little of the evidence even gets discussed. That must give some the impression there's very little.

Here's yet another trackway report from Skamania County.


http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=206

I was living there at the time and didn't see the paper and heard nothing about it.

LAL, just out of interest, how was your 'awareness' of the sasquatch issue at that time? Living in such a trad sasquatch location was the idea of bigfoot omnipresent among the locals back in the early 70s? Did people talk about it much or would they clam up? Was there much ridicule about the idea? I'm not talking about city folk but people used to the great outdoors?

How about you Huntster? What about in your neck of the woods? How is the general feeling up there?

You can answer this in any of the other sasquatch threads so as not to derail this thread if you want.

Cheers.
 
LAL, just out of interest, how was your 'awareness' of the sasquatch issue at that time? Living in such a trad sasquatch location was the idea of bigfoot omnipresent among the locals back in the early 70s? Did people talk about it much or would they clam up? Was there much ridicule about the idea? I'm not talking about city folk but people used to the great outdoors?

There was very little talk about it even in the early 70's. People would clam up until they were sure I was receptive, and then there might be an account or two from people who were involved in the events of 1969.

I didn't really start hearing stories until the 90's when I got interested again after more years in California where it just wasn't an issue.

I grew up in Illinois. Evidently there's been a plethora of sightings in Illinois, but I heard nothing about this. My grandparents lived in Indiana, another eastern hot area, and I heard nothing there either. There was nothing in southern California either. My first exposure was while moving to Portland, Oregon, when I ran across Green's early books in a gift shop.

I started bringing the subject up around Stevenson again in the mid 90's after reading everything the library had to offer (the head librarian's best friend saw one by the railroad track) and found even the sceptics had a friend or relative who'd seen one. There was no ridicule even from the most sceptical, all one of him.

The town had finally gotten some tourism after the Scenic Act was thrust upon it, but with all the new gift stores, I saw no casts, no BF memorabilia, nothing to indicate any of this has to do with tourism.

If anything, the locals seemed rather embarrassed about it. And many of the "locals" were from somewhere else. The co-discoverer of the double trackway was from Seattle. He graduated from UW.

Someone on this board tried to claim only "hicks" have sightings. That's nonsense.

We did have one "kook", namely Datus Perry. He told his stories at the library not long before he died. A couple sounded real enough, but there was a detail in one that made me think he was lying. He might have been mistaken. Or maybe it was true. He said the "gullible" Dr. Krantz' didn't believe him. He claimed four encounters in the forest somewhere north of Carson, and that area's still considered hot, so, could be on at least some of it.

There were no "monster" stories, no out-of-place details like pig noses or pointy ears or fangs, just straightforward accounts, mostly of someone seeing one cross the road.

If that's a tradition, it's a dull one.
 
More from Jimmy Chilcutt (Paul's account of his presentation at WCS 2003):

"Dermal ridge evidence in footprint casts

For me, Jimmy Chilcutt’s talk was the most fascinating – many of you already know that I work as a Forensic Examiner and Expert Witness, so for me, it was interesting to see another expert witnesses "Evidence".

"My basic job” Chilcutt began, “is to take one fingerprint from a crime scene and match it to one from all the millions on file."

Chilcutt said that he noticed during an investigation, that cocaine packages are generally wrapped in numerous layers. By carefully unwrapping these packages, Chilcutt was able to isolate prints, on each of the layers, which ultimately led to convictions. The Federal organizations picked up on this very quickly and now Chilcutt works with the FBI, DEA, ATF, and all sorts of "alphabet" organizations.

Chilcutt is a man with a curious mind, and whilst his future research into human fingerprints was going to be unpopular, it is important to us. Chilcutt wondered whether human fingerprints contained any sexual or ethnic characteristics that could be used as an aid in identifying individuals. He was somewhat successful, and states that he can say with an 85% certainty whether a fingerprint is male or female, black or white, but ran into some difficulties as a result of interbreeding of races (it is easy to see how his work could be deemed as being politically incorrect).

As part of this study, he began taking prints from primates (because they don't interbreed.) After being turned down by several zoos, He started with the Yerkes Primate Center, telling inquiring minds he was "investigating the theft of a truckload of bananas!", and found that humans and primates share the same characteristics - arches, loops, and whorls. They are simply present in different configurations.

Chilcutt said that he lived alone at the time, and because he didn’t have a wife to nag him, was sat eating his dinner in front of the TV one night with a beer, half-watching the Discovery Channel, when he hears Dr. Jeff Meldrum utter those two words which brought Chilcutt into the bigfoot field – “Dermal Ridges”. Chilcutt called Meldrum the next day, and eventually spent three days examining casts from Meldrum’s vast collection.

Chilcutt came away from those three days convinced "...there is an undiscovered North American ape!"

The first cast had dermal ridges, but had been double-tapped, by using human fingerprints to make the toe prints look better. He put that cast aside.

The Walla Walla, WA casts (13-inches long) exhibited "clear ridges with characteristics", with ridges going down the side of the cast.

He went on to explain that human ridges go across the foot and then fade away, and primate ridges run across the foot at an angle.

To Chilcutt's surprise, he found the ridges on the Walla Walla cast ran down the cast on the bottom of the foot, but also on the side of the cast. The ridges on the cast were also "twice the thickness of human dermal ridges."

A Walla Walla cast from 1987 displays the "same texture of ridges as some Northern California casts.”, cast some twenty years and hundreds of miles apart.

In addition, he has found dermal ridges on a cast from Georgia... faint ridges, again running down the side of the foot, and explains that the Skookum Cast shows dermal ridges running down the sides of an Achilles Tendon.

Chilcutt said dermal ridges are not present on every cast... but on casts made before 1999, he is convinced that no one could have known the significance of ridges. But casts made after that date could be made knowing all the information Chilcutt has brought to the field of bigfoot research.

The following day I caught up with Chilcutt in a corridor, and asked whether his involvement in the bigfoot field had harmed his reputation as an Expert Witness in any way.

“Absolutely not” he said in his soft-spoken Texan accent “If a defense attorney were to ask me about it in open court they know they would be given the same presentation I gave yesterday, which would only reenforce my particular expertise”.

Chilcutt and I agreed that one of the most frustrating aspects of bigfoot research was the poor handling of evidence, and that it needs a good shake up, so that field researchers treat footprints, film, photos etc. as real forensic evidence, and are collected and handled in a forensically sound manner.

I firmly believe that Jimmy Chilcutt is the best thing that has happened to bigfoot research in years."

http://www.bigfootproject.org/articles/bf_symp_2003_report.html

I think Paul may have misunderstood Chicutt on where the SC dermal ridges are located. I'll have to watch my DVDs again. The recorded sound is rather poor; it must have been nearly that bad in person.
 
LAL wrote:
Do you suppose people near the Cascade Crest have a greater tendency to hallucinate than anywhere else in the country?
No, not at all, Lu......they're ALL hallucinating....or lying....or both!! :boggled:

See..I'm starting to get the hang of Diogenes' wisdom! :D

Until we have a body on a slab....the default position is "everyone's a liar"....we just have to keep repeating that over and over again in our heads.

Hunster wrote:
I like SweatyYeti's new avatar, too. Beautiful.
Glad you like it, Hunster....I did an image search on Google for my avatar, and when I came across that one...it was an easy decision to make.
 
LAL wrote...post #707:
People would clam up until they were sure I was receptive, and then there might be an account or two from people who were involved in the events of 1969.

A very interesting post, Lu. :)
 
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LAL, just out of interest, how was your 'awareness' of the sasquatch issue at that time? Living in such a trad sasquatch location was the idea of bigfoot omnipresent among the locals back in the early 70s? Did people talk about it much or would they clam up? Was there much ridicule about the idea? I'm not talking about city folk but people used to the great outdoors?

How about you Huntster? What about in your neck of the woods? How is the general feeling up there?

It's not openly talked about here in Southcentral or among whites. Rob Alley had it right on in "Raincoast Sasquatch" refering to Southeast. They even have their own name for them, from the Tlingit language; kushtaka.

Whites tend to be more like the Yankee attitude they came up here with, especially if they live in Railbelt cities or towns.

Here's an article that the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game published in their newsletter some time back:

.....While the Pacific Northwest may have Bigfoot — often called Sasquatch — Alaska has a veritable smorgasbord of humanoids. Unlike the “Lower 48,” there is a substantial history of sightings of these creatures, mostly by Natives. These sightings were not in some by-gone era but recent and consistent enough to be investigated — if mainstream science wants to take a serious look at the phenomenon.....

....Back in the present, an unscientific survey of hunters showed them to be as divided as the scientific community. Although no hunter surveyed admitted to ever having seen a Bigfoot, many of them did report seeing other aspects of nature equally perplexing, including a cheechako trying to catch ducks with a king salmon net, a mid-air collision involving a plane and a fish, UFOs, and very close encounters of the large, hairy, hungry, brown kind. Those who did not believe in Bigfoot stated that with so many hunters in so many parts of Alaska, it was hard to believe that hide nor hair of the beast has been found.....
 
This thread continues to reveal the entire history of Bigfoot "research" in a microcosm.

1) interesting idea is put to the test.
2) vocal minority of fanatics screams bloody murder, hurls insults, quotes faulty research, ignores results of experiements.
3) sane, open-minded people lose interest due to lack of good data, drift off to other pursuits (speaking of which...time to check out the Loch Ness Monster thread).
4) screaming banshee continue their rants and berate all who disagree.
Carry on...
 
This thread continues to reveal the entire history of Bigfoot "research" in a microcosm.

1) interesting idea is put to the test.
2) vocal minority of fanatics screams bloody murder, hurls insults, quotes faulty research, ignores results of experiements.
3) sane, open-minded people lose interest due to lack of good data, drift off to other pursuits (speaking of which...time to check out the Loch Ness Monster thread).
4) screaming banshee continue their rants and berate all who disagree.
Carry on...


I totally agree, but I think you're being rather hard on yourself and tube. I have no idea what's going on with the other fanatics because I filtered them both.

I think we sane people would like to carry on the discussion without the interuptions, if you don't mind.
 
I should mention that while I was reading everything I could find at the Stevenson library on Sasquatches, I was also reading everything I could find on dinosaurs (especially Robert Bakker), Chixilub Crater, PTSD (especially in Nam vets), alcoholism, co-dependency, gardening, wildflowers, astronomy, Nemesis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_(star) ), mass extinctions, nutrition and David Austin's English roses.

I have many interests.
 
Yeah man, I'm hear to learn about footprints. As soon as Seattle's cold snap goes away I'm going to go out and try a few more things.

I remain curious.

In the mean time, here's a silly photo to distract us all even more:
 

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desertyeti wrote:
sane, open-minded people lose interest due to lack of good data,
You must be talking about Greg....it's a well-known fact that his mind is OPEN.....

So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world."

Open...24/7 :D
 
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