Gays and Public Libraries

[TragicMonkey]

I hesitate to go here, but to get off the porn thing, my mom has a little, rare book shop. Every few months someone will come in and ask if she carries "Protocals of the Elders of Zion." She sometimes has a copy. If they seem, you know, to have a white-power vibe, she says, "no." If they seem to be Jewish, scholarly, etc., and she has a copy she will sell it to them.

So access to information is determined by her gut feelings about people?

That's well and good for a small shop. Would you like that policy applied to libraries? A librarian decides you have too many tattoos, and then you don't get your book?

 

[steverino]

So access to information is determined by her gut feelings about people?

That's well and good for a small shop. Would you like that policy applied to libraries? A librarian decides you have too many tattoos, and then you don't get your book?

Cute, TM. Attack my 84 year-old mother. I was simply broadening the "questionable literature and porn" catagory to include antisemitic conspiracy theory "information." I know the difference between a small shop and a public library, my little marshmallow of love. Sorry I complimented you on your Israeli post.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Cute, TM. Attack my 84 year-old mother.

Appeal to emotion. It was hardly "an attack". And by bringing her actions to the attention of others and holding them up as an example of acceptable behavior, you invited criticism of those actions. If you feel they are justified, you are invited to justify them. If you feel they cannot be justified, then why are you bringing them up?

I was simply broadening the "questionable literature and porn" catagory to include antisemitic conspiracy theory "information." I know the difference between a small shop and a public library, my little marshmallow of love.

And in so doing you related the story of a dispenser of information who makes opinion judgments of who is worthy to receive information. I suggest that this is not a desirable state of affairs. It is merely unprofessional in the case of a bookstore. It would be a gross violation of duty in a library.

Sorry I complimented you on your Israeli post.

Now you are taking things personally. Any given statement should stand on its own value, good or ill, regardless of personal feelings about the person making the statement or other statements that person might have made.

 

[steverino]

Appeal to emotion. It was hardly "an attack". And by bringing her actions to the attention of others and holding them up as an example of acceptable behavior, you invited criticism of those actions.

You are right, I suppose. Once I introduce my mother's behavior onto this forum, she is fair game, or, at least, her behaviors are. So feel free to criticize her. Knowing my mother, she'd probably side with you.

 

[FarmallMTA]

All I know is that who ever wrote that article reporting about it, was an even worse writer than I am. I read it and had no idea what the actual item was that was supposed to be inappropriate for a library.

The items in question often have subject matter that can't be mentioned in a family newspaper. They can be purchased with public money and displayed prominently in the library lobby, but they can't, and usually aren't, mentionable in polite conversation or writing.

No, we don't have problems with cognitive dissonance: we're all liberals here.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The items in question often have subject matter that can't be mentioned in a family newspaper. They can be purchased with public money and displayed prominently in the library lobby, but they can't, and usually aren't, mentionable in polite conversation or writing.

No, we don't have problems with cognitive dissonance: we're all liberals here.

You are wrong, they are mentioned, but not specified that is the problem. It mentions such topics as anal sex, but does not clairify what the nature of the information on anal sex is, and what the medium is.

Mayor Jacyno had written the letter to the then-chairwoman of the board, Irene Perrault, in December. He said the patron had indicated "some grave concerns" about material on "anal pleasures and health, erotic sexual pleasures for adults and topics that deal with gay and lesbian subject matter."

You are clearly are implying that you need to restrict information in a library to what a newspaper could print. Well national geographic is out, anatomy books are out, a great many history books are out. I know that you want the librarys to only represent Proper Christian Family Values(tm).

 

[King of the Americas]

Porn Filters...

...STINK...S*UCK...and or cause problems...

We have tried them, but eventually some patron has difficulties accessing their 'hotmail' account, or some other site that raisies a red flag.

I am sorry that I wasn't more clear about our policies and practices, but I still hold that libraries ARE dangerous places, especially if you don't want your kids looking at or reading 'controversial' material...

There are books in the library that define and describe both male and female bodies and their functions, as well as the acts that they take part in. So long as they are 'fact', you'll find them in our non-fiction or reference section. If they are 'stories' about people doing stuff, you'll find them in our fiction section.

We have numerous copies of 'romance novels' that would turn your grandmother's face red, and would likely offend a staunch traditionalist... But they are staying, period.

As a librarian, I try to fill our shelves with information, and I have made every attempt to keep our internet services as a window unto the world, and NOT a reflection of our local beliefs and morals.

I am NOT the moral guide, nor do I act like one at the library. I do everything I can to NOT judge or remark upon people's research habits. I answer questions when asked, and 'try' not to add my opinion. When I render my opinion, I am sure to make sure that the patron knows it is an 'opinion' not fact.

I am not a filter, nor should a library be one...

But that's just my opinion.

 

[steverino]

This might be from out in left field, but I notice there are many restrictrictions on what can be written, or transmitted, on this Forum. Swear words, and porn images (nudity?) as attachments, are two catagories. I do not assign blame, but it does seem that we here tolerate a certain amount of filtration as we attempt to exchange "all the information." I chuckle when people argue for unfettered expression and then need to use words like bulls*** on this Forum.

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

This might be from out in left field, but I notice there are many restrictrictions on what can be written, or transmitted, on this Forum. Swear words, and porn images (nudity?) as attachments, are two catagories. I do not assign blame, but it does seem that we here tolerate a certain amount of filtration as we attempt to exchange "all the information." I chuckle when people argue for unfettered expression and then need to use words like bulls*** on this Forum.

Unfortunately I think this was seen as a 'necessary evil' to gain exposure for the JREF. If profanity and nudity were allowed on this forum, it could very well have the JREF blocked on 'Net Nanny' type services, which would obviously limit readership.

 

[FarmallMTA]

Totally pumped about the trashy novels staying!

We have numerous copies of 'romance novels' that would turn your grandmother's face red, and would likely offend a staunch traditionalist... But they are staying, period.

My fourteen year old son has been asking these *ahem* questions, lately. So first thing off, I gave him my wife's Victoria's Secret Winter catalog and point out all the sweaters and coats. Then I gave him the Spring/Summer catalog and told him, "any other questions, ask your mother."

She gives me a dirty look (no, not one of those, one of the others) and tells me to take him to the library for a fact finding mission that'll educate the boy properly.

So we go to the library. On the way in, I see the rack of trashy novels. I picked out one with a cover illustration of Fabio standing in a hayfield wearing a torn shirt and tight riding pants clutching a loosely dressed bosomy and comely milkmaid. I handed it to him and told him to start at page 49, which is usually about where the shirt gets more torn, and the loosely dressed bosomy comely milkmaid has wild desires she's never experienced before, and then they gaze with smoldering passion into each others glinting, gleaming eyes... *ahem, ahem*

So he's into the trashy novel and I'm safely into a Hot Rod magazine. Problem solved, thanks to my local librarian. You guys and gals ROCK!

 

[Morrigan]

You gave a romance novel with Fabio on the cover to your fourteen year old son?

I hope you don't mind not having grand children.

 

[FarmallMTA]

You gave a romance novel with Fabio on the cover to your fourteen year old son?

I hope you don't mind not having grand children.

But the bosomy comely milkmaid was in front of him, so it's okay. Grandkids on the way, I'm sure.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Unfortunately I think this was seen as a 'necessary evil' to gain exposure for the JREF. If profanity and nudity were allowed on this forum, it could very well have the JREF blocked on 'Net Nanny' type services, which would obviously limit readership.

Yes, keeping it as safe from work, as many businesses do the same thing on their computers is a good thing as well.

Having a segregated section with out such limits might be nice but it is understandable. And the profanity doesn't bother me, as there are so many more effective ways to get ideas across.

 

[bluess]

Wow. I had free access to my mom's bookshelf, and the library once I could get my own card. My mom may have been a bit astonished when I read 'Forever Amber' in 5th grade, but didn't make a fuss. I re-read it recently, and was completely floored by the amount of sex in the book. Apparently, my 11-year old brain skipped over anything it didn't get and went straight for the history and the story.

Blue2 can read anything, as far as I'm concerned. With the understanding that her pushy mom will probably read it too and have loads of questions.

 

[joobie]

off topic:

i have a brother who consistently says dumb things in reference to gays.

first it was because the local baseball team has a gay/lesbian night, which despite having a free ticket he refused to go to, because he was afraid of being propositioned in the bathroom.

being sort of rational i asked him why he was conceited enough to think joe random gay man would be interested in him. he didn't provide an answer so i couldn't ask him the follow-up; why is that more offensive than an ugly girl propositioning you?



then he said recently that he feels safer in his neighborhood with the drug dealers than he does in my (other) brother's neighborhood. because there are gays there.

what a guy.

 

[King of the Americas]

Here's what happens...

...at the library.

A 'young' patron signs in to use the Internet (after a partent has given the go ahead), and they take the computer located furtherest away from the circulation desk.

Then they turn the screen ever so slightly away from other patron traffic.

'I' don't know what they are doing, seeing, or who they are interacting with. Nor do I want to know. Now we DO have disclaiming signs about saying that you aren't supposed to be making explicit images visible so that other patrons can see them. Which is why the kid chose the back computer and turned his screen. To remedy this, I wanted to purchse and install privacy screens, along with disclaimers to passers by that they shouldn't be looking at what Interent surfers are viewing. Given that screens would have st us back almost a grand for all the computer I was voted down. But I am still working on a grant to cover those expenses.

---

As far censorship HERE goes... I gotta say it is more of a stumbling stone, rather than a hurdle. My parents told me that curse words were the tools of dullards who lacked a suitable vocabulary, so I didn't do a lot of cursing as a kid.

That said, I have come to believe that 'curse' words are or have more impact or power than other less offensive words.

Pound your thumb with a hammer...? "S*IT!!!" is what comes out, and you know what, the more I say it the less my finger hurts.

If someone just screwed you on a business deal...? "***** YOU, Man!" That's just what comes out, and I think it serves a greater purpose than to say, "Darn you!" or "You are a bad business man!"

Curse words may unacceptable here, and or the cause of filtered sites to disallow or flag this site, but...

...I think that anything that gives a more accurate description or emotion is a 'good' thing. The better we understand each other the better, period.

Although, I won't admonish this site administrators for their choices, I like posting here and don't mind stepping over a stone or two.

 

[bluess]

off topic:

i have a brother who consistently says dumb things in reference to gays.

first it was because the local baseball team has a gay/lesbian night, which despite having a free ticket he refused to go to, because he was afraid of being propositioned in the bathroom.

being sort of rational i asked him why he was conceited enough to think joe random gay man would be interested in him. he didn't provide an answer so i couldn't ask him the follow-up; why is that more offensive than an ugly girl propositioning you?



then he said recently that he feels safer in his neighborhood with the drug dealers than he does in my (other) brother's neighborhood. because there are gays there.

what a guy.

That's just sad.

 

[steverino]

off topic:

i have a brother who consistently says dumb things in reference to gays.

first it was because the local baseball team has a gay/lesbian night, which despite having a free ticket he refused to go to, because he was afraid of being propositioned in the bathroom.

being sort of rational i asked him why he was conceited enough to think joe random gay man would be interested in him.

He protests too much. How old is he? He might actually be one of "THEM."

 

[ponderingturtle]

That said, I have come to believe that 'curse' words are or have more impact or power than other less offensive words.

Pound your thumb with a hammer...? "S*IT!!!" is what comes out, and you know what, the more I say it the less my finger hurts.

If someone just screwed you on a business deal...? "***** YOU, Man!" That's just what comes out, and I think it serves a greater purpose than to say, "Darn you!" or "You are a bad business man!"

Curse words may unacceptable here, and or the cause of filtered sites to disallow or flag this site, but...

...I think that anything that gives a more accurate description or emotion is a 'good' thing. The better we understand each other the better, period.

Although, I won't admonish this site administrators for their choices, I like posting here and don't mind stepping over a stone or two.

They are just an expression of emotion, so why are they different from say a personal attack in the place in an attempt at reasoned discourse?

 

[King of the Americas]

I think 'how someone feels' IS important...if only so that I know where someone is coming from.

The more that I know about what someone is saying from what position, the better I am able to respond to them...

THAT too is just an opinion.