Gays and Public Libraries

[Hawk one]

Yes. It is a government institution.

The alternative is that a parent follow their 12 year old around the library and look over their shoulder at what they are reading. Sound sensible or reasonable to you?

It is not, however, an institution where the workers are automatically set in charge of continously supervising anyone, such as that of a school. There may be some "by appointment"-style supervision, such as when you have a reading hour for small children, but that's about the extent of it.

That a normal 12-year old kid needs supervision -at all- in a library seems absurd to me. But if it's to be done, then it's significantly less absurd to have the parents do it than forcing the librarians to do so. Especially if the situation is about preventing the kid to read a book with content that his parents don't approve of. Just like they have to be the main responsibles for him not watching movies they don't approve of, or playing video games they don't approve of.

 

[King of the Americas]

I work in a small public library, partially funded by the city, and the rest of our budget is derived from grants, donations, and gifts.

Since my arrivial, I have done eveything in my power to put stuff on the shelves that would shock, dismay, and or outright offend local patrons, not because I want to 'make trouble', but because I think people deserve ALL the information, not just the stuff they agree with...

Though not because of ME, someone opened a 'Christian Library', just one block away, so that parents could have a place to 'drop' their kids without having to worry about what they might see or read.

It didn't work, the kids still show up here, surf the Internet see porn, take part in chat rooms, and I am sure at least a half a dozen of them are in ka-hoots with those Dateline- To Catch a Pedofile people.

As a librarian, I am NOT the thought police. I will check out ANY book, DVD, VHS, or CD to ANY patron with a library card. *And our policy is that if you are old enough to come to the library- by walking, running, or riding a bike or board, then you are old enough to have a library card.

Our "R" rated DVD's & VHS's are within reach of 'kids', and if one of them wanted to check out 'Saving Private Ryan", I wouldn't hesistate to check them out and send them on their way.

I am a librarian. I catalog books, DVD's, VHS's and CD's and make them available to the public. If it is in good shape, physically. I put it on the shelf. If it is falling apart and people have been checking it out, I replace it. If it has sat on the shelf for 10 years, and has not been checked out, it MIGHT be taken out of circulation. An item's 'contents' has little to NOTHING to do with wether or not we will add it to our collection.

And while we do understand that we exist to service our little German-Catholic community, we try to be a window to the rest of the world, and NOT just a reflection of our town or area.

A letter from OUR Mayor telling us how to run or facility, and what things should be on our shelves where, would be filed directly into the circular file.

 

[ChristineR]

A little off-topic: there's no legal standing to movie ratings. The movie industry came up with them on their own, and they have more to do with marketing, target audiences, and with the layouts of multiplexes. (Multiplexes make it possible for kids dropped off to sneak into movies the parents didn't expect them to see, so theater owners arrange things to discourage this.)

 

[Madalch]

And if the kid is old enough to be left alone, then he or she is old enough to handle being "exposed" to the horrors contained within the sinister pages of library books. It's not like public libraries typically contain hardcore, or any, pornography.

Particularly since any twelve-year-old can program the VCR to tape the late-night sex shows on A&E, TLC and Showcase anyway.

 

[King of the Americas]

My sister's TV is 'smart', and she can 'lock' channels that she doesn't want her step kids to watch.

For this she had been branded the "Evil Step Mother"...

I find it funny, cause she was the one who would hide her cop of 'Cosmo', and was also the same little girl who got caught with a 'Playgirl' once.

Now, she blocks A&E, FX, VH1, HBO, CINAMAX, SHOWTIME, and MTV.

(*Whenever I visit, I always unlock ALL the channels.)

 

[Luke T.]

*And our policy is that if you are old enough to come to the library- by walking, running, or riding a bike or board, then you are old enough to have a library card.

But not old enough to view adult literature. I'd be real careful about letting kids check out adult material. You may be breaking the law.

Kids get autonomy on a gradual level. Granting one level of autonomy (going to the library alone) does not mean they are automatically granted full autonomy (viewing porn, buying booze, attending rock concerts). There is a certain amount of decorum and community standards expected from a library that is not expected elsewhere. That is why parents will let their kid go to the library alone and not to TragicMonkey's house alone.

If a kid goes into the XXX rated part of a video store, it is expected the clerk will stop him. That probably would be a violation of the law if they allowed the kid to rent XXX movies. R-rated, I don't know. Local laws probably vary.

 

[Luke T.]

It is not, however, an institution where the workers are automatically set in charge of continously supervising anyone, such as that of a school. There may be some "by appointment"-style supervision, such as when you have a reading hour for small children, but that's about the extent of it.

That a normal 12-year old kid needs supervision -at all- in a library seems absurd to me. But if it's to be done, then it's significantly less absurd to have the parents do it than forcing the librarians to do so. Especially if the situation is about preventing the kid to read a book with content that his parents don't approve of. Just like they have to be the main responsibles for him not watching movies they don't approve of, or playing video games they don't approve of.

Preventing a kid from buying a video game or renting a movie is not the same. That is something you can control in your own house.

Expecting a parent to watchdog their kid at the library is more like expecting them to go with their kid to a sleepover at a friend's house to make sure they don't view porn. In that situation, you expect the other kid's parents to handle that. And with a library, you expect the library to handle it.

 

[Luke T.]

That a normal 12-year old kid needs supervision -at all- in a library seems absurd to me.

Please explain why you say that. Keep in mind this is in context of adult material being present in the library.

But if it's to be done, then it's significantly less absurd to have the parents do it than forcing the librarians to do so.

What is absurd is that you would have a parent accompanying every child in a library. It is a much simpler proposition that adult material be in an adult section that is clearly marked off limits to minors. Then only one adult (a librarian) is necessary to keep an eye out for any and all minors.

 

[Luke T.]

If parents felt they had to accompany their kids to the library to keep them from adult material, you would be seeing a hell of a lot less kids in the library. Is that really the result you want for the sake of having adult literature?

I don't know about your local library, but the vast majority of people at mine on any given day are kids.

 

[Ladewig]

And Charlie Monoxide misrepsented the facts, too.



The complaint was about all forms of explicit sexual material, not just gay material.

I'm not entirely sure your criticism is well founded. "Gay and lesbian" books can include materials that have nothing to do with sexually-explicit material. It is possible that the offended patron was objecting to a book about famous lesbians in history or about a gay teen coming out to his parents or any number of other non-sexual topics.

It is possible that the offended patron was referring to a gay sex manual, but not enough information is known at this time to be sure.

 

[Luke T.]

I'm not entirely sure your criticism is well founded. "Gay and lesbian" books can include materials that have nothing to do with sexually-explicit material. It is possible that the offended patron was objecting to a book about famous lesbians in history or about a gay teen coming out to his parents or any number of other non-sexual topics.

It is possible that the offended patron was referring to a gay sex manual, but not enough information is known at this time to be sure.

Charlie parsed it into a question of whether gays and lesbians should have their own separate library. That would not solve the entire complaint. The question should have been should all adult material be in a separate library. To make this a gay/lesbian thing is disingenuous.

 

[Beerina]

Why do those people hate America?

Why do they hate Dunkin' Donuts?

 

[Ladewig]

Charlie parsed it into a question of whether gays and lesbians should have their own separate library. That would not solve the entire complaint. The question should have been should all adult material be in a separate material. To make this a gay/lesbian thing is disingenuous.

Perhaps not. I know some adults who would insist that a autobiography about a teen coming out to his parents should be in the adult section while other teen autobiographies should be in the teen section. I have no idea how the Candian population breaks down into the category I just mentioned, but in the U.S. there are a lot of folks who would move any book by or about a gay person to the adult section (if not the garbage).

Still, I see your point and will conceed that Charlie may have been out of line.

 

[Beerina]

Particularly since any twelve-year-old can program the VCR to tape the late-night sex shows on A&E, TLC and Showcase anyway.

No kid does that unless they just live with mom and know she doesn't get up early.

Better to just stay up late watching TV, then get some business done.

Although had Internet been around when I was a kid, I'd prolly be a whiz at surf-and-clean-tracks instead. Why settle for some lame Skinimax crap of two scrawney and only mildly pretty girls pretending to open mouth kiss when you can, say, hit Google images and turn off the moderated search in seconds?

 

[Luke T.]

Perhaps not. I know some adults who would insist that a autobiography about a teen coming out to his parents should be in the adult section while other teen autobiographies should be in the teen section. I have no idea how the Candian population breaks down into the category I just mentioned, but in the U.S. there are a lot of folks who would move any book by or about a gay person to the adult section (if not the garbage).

And that is a good subject to discuss separately. What does each person feel is "adult material" unsuitable for children?

I would not like to see a scientific or educational article on homosexuality put in the "adult section", for example. But I think anything by Anais Nin or Henry Miller ought to be.

 

[King of the Americas]

Luke T.

I think you are wrong...the Freedom of Information vs. Distributing Porn to a Minor is one where law officers side with 'freedom', most of the time.

If a 'kid' were to bring up say..."Sideways", I would ask him if his mother was going to be happy about him watching it, in an attempt to guilt him into not checking it out. If that didn't work, I'd check it out to him...

Moreover, we have an Art book, filled with almost every great work imaginable. And indeed, some of the images are explicit, to say the least.

I checked out said book to a Freshman, just a week ago.

And I didn't think twice about it.

I think I would have the law on MY side, if I were taken to court by an angry parent.

 

[Luke T.]

Luke T.

I think you are wrong...the Freedom of Information vs. Distributing Porn to a Minor is one where law officers side with 'freedom', most of the time.

If a 'kid' were to bring up say..."Sideways", I would ask him if his mother was going to be happy about him watching it, in an attempt to guilt him into not checking it out. If that didn't work, I'd check it out to him...

Moreover, we have an Art book, filled with almost every great work imaginable. And indeed, some of the images are explicit, to say the least.

I checked out said book to a Freshman, just a week ago.

And I didn't think twice about it.

I think I would have the law on MY side, if I were taken to court by an angry parent.

I'm not sure the court would stand on your side over the issue of kids surfing porn in your library.

 

[Marc L]

The alternative is that a parent follow their 12 year old around the library and look over their shoulder at what they are reading. Sound sensible or reasonable to you?

Yes, if they want to have any say in what their kids are reading. It's actually a lot easier than following them around. Tell your kids they are only allowed to get books from the appropriate section. When they bring them home, ask to see what they got. If they're spending more than an hour at the library, find out what they're doing.

It's interesting, though, to note how we're all saying "kids" section and referring to eleven and twelve year-olds. Eleven and twelve year olds aren't, to my knowledge considered "children" when referring to the children's section of the library or book store. They're considered "Young Adults." If the article is concerned about these books ending up in the children's section, then they're talking about much younger kids, who are more than likely going to have their parents with them. If they're concerned about these books ending up in the young adult section, then they're talking about kids whose parents should have already taught them what they expect of them.

Marc

 

[Marc L]

Our "R" rated DVD's & VHS's are within reach of 'kids', and if one of them wanted to check out 'Saving Private Ryan", I wouldn't hesistate to check them out and send them on their way.

Isn't that illegal? I thought that ratings were enforcable by law when it came to libraries/video stores checking them out to patrons.


Marc

 

[Marc L]

Preventing a kid from buying a video game or renting a movie is not the same. That is something you can control in your own house.

Unless you're also the kind of parent lets their kids go to the mall on their own, too.

Marc