Compare the WTC..to a Tree?

So, in a nutshell (interesting, if we could calculate density of a walnut shell, we could have a great pun here), the density of the WTCs was equal to that of cork.

So next question, how, if at all, would this impact on the ability to remain intact when a portion of the structure falls upon itself?

TAM:)
 
so your saying its not the keebler elves tree that we should be comparing. its the quarter mile high stack of oatmeal cookies they are baking?
 
Since this thread is rather off-topic, or perhaps a brand new topic that only barely relates to 9/11.

Having pulled,,,err,,, dropped a few trees in my life and retained all my own limbs and use of same (pun intended)...................

To fell a tree;

1) decide which direction you want the tree to fall.
2) now plan which direction you will go when the tree is falling and make that path clear first.
3) cut a notch in the tree on the side facing the direction you want it to fall. the notch should be about 1/4 to 1/3 the diameter of the tree.
4) now cut from the directly opposite side.
  • If using a saw cut straight accross(horizontal)that would have the cut end at the apex of the notch. Leave a 'hinge' of intact wood about 1/10th the diameter of the tree.

  • if using an axe cut this second notch higher than the first with the point of it at or just above the point of the first notch.

The tree should lean in the direction of the first notch and thus when the second cut is made the tree is already predisposed to go in that direction.

If the tree has suffered a sprial fracture due to high winds it may be detected by a sprial crack in the bark. A tree with this damage is unpredictable when cutting it down, it could go anywhere. Wear gloves and workboots, long pants, hardhat and eye protection.

If the tree has a pronounced lean in the first place(and many varieties of Maple for instance do exactly that) you may have little choice as to what direction it will fall. If there are high winds come back another day or call someone who does this for a living.


When a tree starts to go over step well back from it (shut the chainsaw off or set the axe down and get thee the hell away from it). If it snaps before the tree is leaning over more than 45O it may jump off the stump and kick back or out to the side. Getting hit by a tree that jumps like this is about the same as getting kicked by a horse.

See http://forestry.about.com/od/chainsaws/ss/fell_tree.htm
 
Does this mean that the CTers now have a wedge strategy?

- Myriad
 
Please tell me its a joke. My average person out there is a retard expectancy just went up a couple of levels.
 
That density comparison stuff was both fascinatingly informative and hilarious.

Thank you.

-Gumboot
 
Mr.D said:
500000 tons / (417 m * 63.4 m * 63.4 m) =~ 0.298301 metric tons / m^3
or
298.3 kg / m^3

1) bamboo (300-400 kg/m^3), which is not solid and very flexible, so really not the kind of tree Ms. Wood is using in her analogy. (It does emphasize how remarkable bamboo is, though - and why asian cultures use it for everything)

2) Solid Cork (240 kg/m^3). Wonder what odds of survival Ms. Wood would give her Keebler elves if they built their home in a WTC tower sized piece of solid cork and then a 68 kiloton object fell on it.
Click to expand...

gumboot said:
That density comparison stuff was both fascinatingly informative and hilarious.

Thank you.

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

And those two are about the least dense "woods" out there. Look at:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html

Even soft woods like pine and cedar have a lower limit on their densities of 350 kg/m3 and 380 kg/m3.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
PS. If Cters cut trees for a living there would be no Cters, they do not know the first thing about them. They would get themselves Injured or killed with in the first few hours it is not that simple cutting trees.
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There ya go. Lets take all the troofers out in the forest with chainsaws and leave them there to build a log cabin.

Any left alive after five days get to come home.
 
Mr.D said:
Hmmm ... back of the envelope time again.



500000 tons / (417 m * 63.4 m * 63.4 m) =~ 0.298301 metric tons / m^3
or
298.3 kg / m^3

Google some reference densities fromhttp://www.simetric.co.uk/si_wood.htm and http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm, we find that the nearest listed solid (not aggregate) materials are

1) bamboo (300-400 kg/m^3), which is not solid and very flexible, so really not the kind of tree Ms. Wood is using in her analogy. (It does emphasize how remarkable bamboo is, though - and why asian cultures use it for everything)

2) Solid Cork (240 kg/m^3). Wonder what odds of survival Ms. Wood would give her Keebler elves if they built their home in a WTC tower sized piece of solid cork and then a 68 kiloton object fell on it.

Entertainingly (at least to me) Rolled Oats (at 302 kg/m^3) is almost dead on in terms of density. Just trying to imagine a tower sized pile of rolled oats makes the whole idea of using everyday "common sense" to think about the WTC events look pretty silly.
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Which is interesting (seriously, I kid you not.)

BUT, you just gave the CTers another round of ammunition:
"I saw on the internet where the WTC was only as strong as a pile of rolled oats (bamboo, cork, etc.)"

We know that density doesn't equate to strength, but the CTers all seem to have failed their grade school general science classes.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
PS. If Cters cut trees for a living there would be no Cters, they do not know the first thing about them. They would get themselves Injured or killed with in the first few hours it is not that simple cutting trees.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think if they did ay kind of physical task, they'd get themselves killed. There's so many ways to off yourself using power tools that they'd find at least one of them.

Who do you think all those "Do not try to stop the chain with your hand" warnings are for? It's not you or me, that's for darn sure!
 
Who do you think all those "Do not try to stop the chain with your hand" warnings are for? It's not you or me, that's for darn sure!
Click to expand...


Do not insert hand in cutter? Hah! That's what the evil gubment wants you to think!! Common sense tells me AAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
 
Horatius said:
Actually, I think if they did ay kind of physical task, they'd get themselves killed. There's so many ways to off yourself using power tools that they'd find at least one of them.

Who do you think all those "Do not try to stop the chain with your hand" warnings are for? It's not you or me, that's for darn sure!
Click to expand...
No more warning labels!

Down with warning labels!

Let the terminally stupid terminate themselves!
 
1. Take a junk of wood
2. Take a beer can
3. Bring your fist down on the beer can...easy enough...
Now, Step 4....
4. bring your fist down on one end of the junk of wood...OUCH!!!
Click to expand...

Make sure the beer can is opened and empty before you try this, or you will get mixed results.
 
With Apologies to Joyce Kilmer

I think that I shall never see
A tower falling like a tree

A tree that, falling by itself,
Shows evidence of Keebler Elf

Or weapon beamed from outer space
That leaves behind no other trace.

A tree that does its duty should
Be dense as Dr. Judy Wood

A tower built with iron bones
Is just the same, says Steven Jones

The silliness of fools like these
Shows both of them are dumb as trees.

M
 
T.A.M. said:
1. Take a junk of wood
2. Take a beer can
3. Bring your fist down on the beer can...easy enough...
Now, Step 4....
4. bring your fist down on one end of the junk of wood...OUCH!!!
Click to expand...

Minadin said:
Make sure the beer can is opened and empty before you try this, or you will get mixed results.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you'd have to empty a few beer cans before this experiment seemed like a good idea to try :)
 
Mercutio said:
I think that I shall never see
A tower falling like a tree

A tree that, falling by itself,
Shows evidence of Keebler Elf

Or weapon beamed from outer space
That leaves behind no other trace.

A tree that does its duty should
Be dense as Dr. Judy Wood

A tower built with iron bones
Is just the same, says Steven Jones

The silliness of fools like these
Shows both of them are dumb as trees.

M
Click to expand...

Nominated!

Well done!
 
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