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Common Sense

It's amazing to me that someone that cannot master the high school definition of freefall can claim to have proven NIST wrong. That's nothing short of the most unholy marriage between ignorance and arrogance.
 
I have dominated all of you on many different topics and in many different threads... and now it's starting to get really stale and boring.. There's just no challenge to it anymore... the only defense you people have are insults and chaotic theories which defy the laws of probability and the physical world....

I really have pity for you all... and have exercised some mercy at times - but when it comes down to me clearly proving NIST wrong... all of you are reduced to nothing more than babbling children... spouting off insults.

Remember, the major difference between truthers and deniers... is that truthers want to unite (with deniers) ... truthers want to be on the same team... truthers don't want conflict... deniers only want conflict... deniers will do anything to remain divided from truthers... And, therein lies the problem...

Today, 01:08 AM
I didn't say that... they're making this crap up.
Last edited by 28th Kingdom : Today at 01:30 AM.

Today, 01:09 AM
I was going off of freefall times that someone else came up with. According to this video, freefall for steel beams a certain size would be 4.7 seconds over the distance of 100 meters.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

So we divide 100 meters into the height of WTC 2 (415m) We get 4.15.

4.15 X 4.7 = 19.505 seconds.

Today, 01:17 AM
I was going off of freefall times that someone else came up with. According to this video, freefall for flat steel beams would be 5.6 seconds over the distance of 100 meters.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

So we divide 100 meters into the height of WTC 2 (415m) We get 4.15.

4.15 X 5.6 = 23.24 seconds.

You said you what? (pdoh)

You have dominated all of us just as you have a solid grasp on physics.

You have dominated as a liar. Will this be enough proof?
 
So... if we all agree that the lower structure (below impact floors) could have held the weight of the upper mass in a hypothetical situation where the impact floors were removed, and the upper mass was slowly lowered onto the lower floors/structure... than what we are saying is that the force from this weight (of the upper mass) falling 50-70 feet is what caused all of the lower floors to fail.
No. In a structure, you have various types of forces that are skillfully directed so as to work toward the strengths of the materials used in that particular arrangement. Dead (meaning constant) loads are carefully transferred to the ground in a certain way. When you change that static loading to be dynamic, live loads, such as a weight that is falling, they don't behave in the same way. Specifically, in the case of the towers, shear forces are at work that exceed design capacity, leading to global collapse. A shear force is one that cuts across a material, rather than being transfered length-wise.

I'll give you an example. Imagine a large, heavy truck that is resting on a small bridge. It's not much below the posted weight limit but the bridge supports it while at rest, or while driving across the span. However, if you lift the large truck with a crane and drop it on the bridge from a height, your results will not be as favorable.

Here's another. Imagine an obese woman standing on the end of a diving board. (I have had the unfortunate experience of witnessing this particular example in person, I'm afraid) Several other people of normal size have previously used this springboard to dive into the water below. It even supports her weight as she contemplates her dive. Hovever, as she bounces, and then lands to spring . . . it shatters. Why?

Doesn't NIST say... the collapse increased in speed as it progressed downwards? Meaning the resistance from the lower floors didn't slow the momentum of the upper mass, but actually increased it.
Also, your understanding of how forces, and resistance to them (other forces) work is below elementary. There are a couple of things, at a bare minimum, that you need to understand.

First off, if you look at something as simple as a coefficient of friction for a static body as opposed to a moving body, you will see that they are noticeably different. There's a simple test you can make of this. Take a small, cubed block of wood and place it at one end of a longer plank of the same variety. Now, slowly raise the end of the plank that the block is on to incline it. As you increase the angle, the vertical component of the force acting on the block, acting upon it to fall, increases. At a certain angle, that component will surpass the static coefficient of friction between the block and the plank, and the block will begin to accellerate toward the lower end of the plank. It won't slow down, even if you begin to lower the plank, until such a point that the kinetic friction is more than the vertical component of the force acting on the body. At that point it will begin to slow, until it stops.

Kinetic friction is almost always less than the static friction, and that's why ABS that keep your tires from skidding will stop your car faster than if your tires skid.

You also need to undertand why the forces are acting the way they are, and effecting the objects with predictable, and calculable, effects. I won't go into the calculus of an accelleration or anything like that, but perhaps I can explain some really simple vector analysis when it comes to forces. Vectors are typically described as having a direction and a magnitude.

Picture it as a rope, that is being pulled in a certain direction at a certain rate. If you have a large force pulling on one end of the rope, it will move in the direction of that force. If you put a smaller force on the other end, pulling in the opposite direction, it will still accellerate in the direction of the larger force, but not as fast if there were no resistance. The only way that it will slow, once moving, is if the resistance force becomes larger than the pulling force. If the forces are equal, the rope will continue moving, if it was moving, or remain stopped, if it was stopped.

For instance, the force of gravity on an object is its weight, directed toward the center of the Earth, which, we will call "down" for simplicity. In a static environ, such as a built structure that is at rest, this force of gravity is resisted by the strength of materials in that building, in the exact opposite direction, "up", and actually in the exact same amount that the gravity force is pushing down.

In the case of that structure moving downward, that basically means that the downward force has exceeded the upward component capacity of that structure, just like your wood block on the wood plank. The structure won't decelerate because of the resistant force it encounters, but it will accelerate slower than it would have if the only force acting on it was downward. That's why you observed a collapse time of about 14 - 15 seconds for the structure instead of under 9, which would have been the free fall time without resistance.
 
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So your problem is that the building accelerates downward as it collapsed. This is most likely what happened (I am not doing a frame by frame for you), here's why (simplified):

The falling mass would decelerate each time it encounters a new floor. This deceleration would have to be greater than the acceleration the falling mass experienced in the space between the floors for the falling mass to decelerate over its path to the ground. While this may be the case towards the top of the building, it would not happen as the collapse progressed due to the increasing falling mass. Consider the resistence offered by each floor to be constant. The force was applied to a larger and larger falling mass, decelerating the falling mass less and less as the falling mass descended. Since the falling mass is accelerating under the force of gravity, it would naturally accelerate over its path.

For your edification, were there to be no other sources of kinetic energy loss (there is in the form of friction and the higher speed that rubble would be ejected) the falling mass would approach free fall acceleration for a WTC tower of infinite hight.

I hate using physics for this. Reminds me of college, and I just don't like thinking about 9/11 as a physics problem. People are more than numbers.
 
All of these calculations coming from the same wizards who brought us this superhuman display of mathematical excellence:

If someone paid 200 million for a building and then received 3 billion on an insurance claim due to the buildings' collapse... but then turned around and built a 5 billion building to replace the first building... well, damn - this poor guy just lost 2 billion dollars...

I'm not kidding, folks... how could I possibly make this 4837 up?
 
I have dominated all of you on many different topics and in many different threads... and now it's starting to get really stale and boring.. There's just no challenge to it anymore... the only defense you people have are insults and chaotic theories which defy the laws of probability and the physical world....

I really have pity for you all... and have exercised some mercy at times - but when it comes down to me clearly proving NIST wrong... all of you are reduced to nothing more than babbling children... spouting off insults.

Remember, the major difference between truthers and deniers... is that truthers want to unite (with deniers) ... truthers want to be on the same team... truthers don't want conflict... deniers only want conflict... deniers will do anything to remain divided from truthers... And, therein lies the problem...

You sure blew us away with your 150 IQ and your CT physics. Who gave you the IQ test? Are you sure they did not mean 15?
 
All of these calculations coming from the same wizards who brought us this superhuman display of mathematical excellence:

If someone paid 200 million for a building and then received 3 billion on an insurance claim due to the buildings' collapse... but then turned around and built a 5 billion building to replace the first building... well, damn - this poor guy just lost 2 billion dollars...

I'm not kidding, folks... how could I possibly make this 4837 up?

Today, 01:08 AM
I didn't say that... they're making this crap up.
Last edited by 28th Kingdom : Today at 01:30 AM.



Today, 01:09 AM
I was going off of freefall times that someone else came up with. According to this video, freefall for steel beams a certain size would be 4.7 seconds over the distance of 100 meters.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

So we divide 100 meters into the height of WTC 2 (415m) We get 4.15.

4.15 X 4.7 = 19.505 seconds.


Today, 01:17 AM
I was going off of freefall times that someone else came up with. According to this video, freefall for flat steel beams would be 5.6 seconds over the distance of 100 meters.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

So we divide 100 meters into the height of WTC 2 (415m) We get 4.15.

4.15 X 5.6 = 23.24 seconds.


Now how do you calculate this again?

You do have a way with numbers.

And the answer is? You always make it up! We were wondering why?



 
All of these calculations coming from the same wizards who brought us this superhuman display of mathematical excellence:

If someone paid 200 million for a building and then received 3 billion on an insurance claim due to the buildings' collapse... but then turned around and built a 5 billion building to replace the first building... well, damn - this poor guy just lost 2 billion dollars...

I'm not kidding, folks... how could I possibly make this 4837 up?
Your understanding of financial matters is as deep as your understanding of the most basic laws of physics. :rolleyes:

Nothing in what you write is true, absolutely nothing. As usual, you've got it all wrong. :jaw-dropp

When will you apologize for claiming that we made your stupid post about freefall up? When will you do the honorable thing?
 
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All of these calculations coming from the same wizards who brought us this superhuman display of mathematical excellence:

If someone paid 200 million for a building and then received 3 billion on an insurance claim due to the buildings' collapse... but then turned around and built a 5 billion building to replace the first building... well, damn - this poor guy just lost 2 billion dollars...

I'm not kidding, folks... how could I possibly make this 4837 up?

You may as well have made it up for all the truth there is in it.

Do you really believe that an Insurance company will make payment larger than the amount of the loss?

As I'm on ignore, this is another reminder of reality you won't see; but, for anybody who's curious, here's a discussion of insurance from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70904
 
You may as well have made it up for all the truth there is in it.

Do you really believe that an Insurance company will make payment larger than the amount of the loss?

As I'm on ignore, this is another reminder of reality you won't see; but, for anybody who's curious, here's a discussion of insurance from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70904
Let me quote that for our local Renaissance-genius.

Another good thread is here. In post 8, LashL gives very detailled info about the insurance.

And as usual, 911myths has a lot of useful information about Silverstein's "profit".
 
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You may as well have made it up for all the truth there is in it.

Do you really believe that an Insurance company will make payment larger than the amount of the loss?

As I'm on ignore, this is another reminder of reality you won't see; but, for anybody who's curious, here's a discussion of insurance from somebody who actually knows what they're talking about:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70904

Which is just about everyone except liar 28K
 
In the dim and distant past this was an interesting thread:
... what other examples of the real world can we present which are counter intuitive to common sense?
... but then 28th Kingdom turned up.

Common sense would seem to indicate that I would have no chance of translating the Welsh weather forecast in Architect's avatar as I paid little or no attention to Welsh language lessons in school - and only vaguely remembered that "ac yn" translates approximately as "and is".

However, google is my friend, and she told me that "wyntog" = "windy" ... so I guessed that "Troi'n wyntog ac yn lawog" would translate as "It's going to be wet and windy". Of course I couldn't possibly post that guess on a Skeptics' forum so I had to do some additional research (ask my 18yr old niece - appeal to authority) who confirmed my guesstimated translation as
My 18yr old niece said:
you got the translation perfectly. It's going to be windy and wet.
Somebody did ask for the translation, though I've since read far too many "common sense" posts by 28K to be able to remember who it was that asked. Which reminds me -

28th Kingdom, please stop posting. Do you not realise that each additional post you make here just adds to the mountain of evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about?

There's no shame in being ignorant of basic physics, but to put people on ignore when they are simply showing you the errors in your "common sense" is willful ignorance, which in my opinion is tantamount to stupidity.
 
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Semi-automatic weapons. Full auto requires permission from the police chief.



Ahhh, just semi-automatic military grade arms. That's okay then.....





...meanwhile, I now know what my Avatar finally means!

:)
 
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Common sense would seem to indicate that I would have no chance of translating the Welsh weather forecast in Architect's avatar as I paid little or no attention to Welsh language lessons in school - and only vaguely remembered that "ac yn" translates approximately as "and is".

However, google is my friend, and she told me that "wyntog" = "windy" ... so I guessed that "Troi'n wyntog ac yn lawog" would translate as "It's going to be wet and windy". Of course I couldn't possibly post that guess on a Skeptics' forum so I had to do some additional research (ask my 18yr old niece - appeal to authority) who confirmed my guesstimated translation as correct.


It's all wasted now that our pal RemoveBush has been banned, anyway......


Dydd Mawrth gwlyb eto

Yn fore a phrynhawn diflas tu hwnt. Yn gymylog iawn, yn wlyb iawn ac yn wyntog iawn. Llifogydd yn bosib. Dwr yn casglu ar y ffyrdd.

Dydd Mercher: Rhai cyfnodau clir o gwmpas wrth i`r ffrynt achludol wthio lawr i`r De Ddwyrain.

Dydd Iau: Mwy o dywydd gwlyb, cymylog a gwyntog yn anffodus.
 
Dydd Mawrth gwlyb eto

Yn fore a phrynhawn diflas tu hwnt. Yn gymylog iawn, yn wlyb iawn ac yn wyntog iawn. Llifogydd yn bosib. Dwr yn casglu ar y ffyrdd.

Dydd Mercher: Rhai cyfnodau clir o gwmpas wrth i`r ffrynt achludol wthio lawr i`r De Ddwyrain.

Dydd Iau: Mwy o dywydd gwlyb, cymylog a gwyntog yn anffodus.

Tuesday, goolies again.
In the morning and afternoon you'll be polishing your dog. Very gummy, very bad teeth, very windy due to beans. Bob the Builder goes to the library. the water in the castle is on the river.

Wednesday: Singing in the rain at all points of the compass with the National Front invading from the east.

Thursday: Two blokes walk into a pub, one turns to the other and says "daffodils".


Or maybe not.
 
Erm.....bora da?





I mean, I'm from the Western Isles for heaven's sake. All the Welsh I know I got from watching some S4C once. Something about Postman Pat and some missing postal orders. And even then, I'd seen the episode already in Gaelic. Ivor the Engline! Fireman Sam! Superted!
 
And a good morning to you too.

Up until a couple of years ago i thought Pingu was Welsh (well, he spoke Welsh on S4C). But what can you expect from someone who thought Rolf Harris and Shirley Bassey were from Cardiff ;)
 
I have dominated all of you on many different topics and in many different threads... and now it's starting to get really stale and boring.. There's just no challenge to it anymore...

Ahhh, ye olde troll fall-back: After having been used to whipe the floor, declare yourself the winner, claim you are now bored and leave. Last ditch action to save what self-esteem you have left.

Reminds me of the good old days. Why don't we get really good trolls like Franko, Muscleman, and even Wraith anymore. At least they could keep it up for months on end. :nope:

Hans
 

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