Treasury Secretary Paulson Arrested

T.A.M. said:
A quote from the worldreports.org site:



TAM
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The part right after that is mind boggling:

US FRIEND: 'You have put a tremendous amount of time into these Wanta articles, so it's not your job to prove you're right; it's the job of your detractors to prove you wrong. I'm sure there's a lot ofprofessional jealousy involved, so stand your ground'. Of course the mad detractors, who are in a state of white panic, cannot prove that the Editor is wrong. This is an impossibility.
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Carl Sagan is rolling over in his grave right now.
 
JamesB said:
Carl Sagan is rolling over in his grave right now.
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I think I can hear my college logic professor screaming...

"You can't prove a negative...."

"The burden of proof is on the claimant..."

Or something like that.
 
The Almond said:
I think I can hear my college logic professor screaming...

"You can't prove a negative...."

"The burden of proof is on the claimant..."

Or something like that.
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Of course worldreports.org thinks they're listening to a Charlie Brown special and they're in the schoolroom, "Wah wah wah. Wah wah wah wah wah."
 
I think Michael C. Cottrell, &, AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc, and Leo Emil Wanta = 419 scam? or investment scam?:confused:

or is it simply just a collection of web sites catering to fantasy fiction book sales?:confused:
 
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WildCat said:
Karpinski was at best an incompetent schmuck hopelessly in over her head in a job she couldn't handle and had no business having. This is her only possible defense, if she was smart she'd let it go and just fade away.
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And you know this because?
 
A W Smith said:
I think Michael C. Cottrell, &, AmeriTrust Groupe, Inc, and Leo Emil Wanta = 419 scam? or investment scam?:confused:

or is it simply just a collection of web sites catering to fantasy fiction book sales?:confused:
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Could be, could be...

Back in the 1920's & 30's one of the biggest things going was the 'Drake Will Scam', basically people were sold on the idea that the Sir Francis Drakes fortune had been stolen from his heirs by 'legal flim-flam' after his death. The promoters told victims that an heir had been found and that his case needed to be put through the Secret Courts of England. To do this of course money was needed for the legal fees, but once the case was proved everyone who contributed would get a cut of the inheritance (it started in the low millions but by the end was in the low trillions).

Conspiratorial thinking was promoted, with prominent figures being cited as both helping and hindering the case. It was claimed that the Great Depression was caused by the imminent payout and currency fluctuations were also sited as evidence of progress in the 'case'.
 
Greg Szymanski disses us:

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/6-Jan-2007.html

A spokesman for the Secretary of the U.S. Treasury, Henry M. Paulson, Jr., on Friday officially denied reports that Paulson was arrested by German authorities for trying to divert $4.5 trillion dollars, known as the Wanta funds, earmarked for the American people.



Earlier in the week Treasury officials neither confirmed or denied the story, but according to print journalist, Rob Walters, Paulson's assistant categorically denied being detained in Germany or having anything to do with stealing or diverting $4.5 trillion dollars.



"I picked up the "Paulson arrested in Germany" story over on Cloak the other day, and followed it to World Reports," said Walters, who contacted the Arctic Beacon with the latest Treasury information.



"Like many others, I was perplexed that nobody had much to say on the matter, not even a peep about it on Rense. A bunch of skeptics on "Amazing Randi's" blog all said it was a bunch of bull, without bothering to do any investigation.
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Yeah, none of us have done any investigation.
 
Somehow, I'd missed this thread previously. Quite the tale, isn't it?
 
The Almond said:
That's all very interesting stuff. Nothing about Paulson; however, if I had read in the Seattle Times that he had been arrested in Germany, I'd be far more inclined to believe it. It kinda throws a kink in to the theory of suppression, though. I mean, we're so concerned with protecting Paulson, but Rumsfeld is anyone's target? Seems rather silly to me.
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Didn't mean to imply I believed the Paulson story at all. Just that there is a real legal action in Germany against Rummy and they have claimed jurisdiction.
 
WildCat said:
Karpinski was at best an incompetent schmuck hopelessly in over her head in a job she couldn't handle and had no business having. This is her only possible defense, if she was smart she'd let it go and just fade away.
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I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you know this.
 
So has he posted an official retraction on his site, this worldreports.org guy?

TAM
 
T.A.M. said:
So has he posted an official retraction on his site, this worldreports.org guy?

TAM
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Hell no, the first rule of conspiracy theorists, never admit you are wrong. Now he is saying Paulson fled to Israel (got to involved those Jews somehow). Hilariously, he is now accusing Greg Szymanski of lying about this.
 
skeptigirl said:
I'm still waiting for you to tell us how you know this.
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Her claim is that persons bullied into her prison to interrogate prisoners, w/o proper authorization or identification. No competent military officer would allow this to happen.

If the above is not true, then she is a liar.

Either way, she don't look good.
 
WildCat said:
Her claim is that persons bullied into her prison to interrogate prisoners, w/o proper authorization or identification. No competent military officer would allow this to happen.

If the above is not true, then she is a liar.

Either way, she don't look good.
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This is a bogus argument anyway, the famous Abu Ghraib incidences (with all the pictures) had nothing to do with interrogations, it was MPs punishing prisoners for misbehavior. She was in charge of the MPs, they misbehaved, the command gets in trouble.
 
JamesB said:
This is a bogus argument anyway, the famous Abu Ghraib incidences (with all the pictures) had nothing to do with interrogations, it was MPs punishing prisoners for misbehavior. She was in charge of the MPs, they misbehaved, the command gets in trouble.
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Yeah, she was incompetent for the reasons you described. But she also claimed that unidentified people roamed her prison at will interrogating terror suspects. And that she, the CO of Abu Ghraib, could do nothing to stop them. Not quite "officer of the year" material.

Karpinski was never charged w/ anything AFAIK, but was relieved of her command. That she is fighting this the way she is is bewildering to me, as even if everything she says is true it reveals her to be an incompetent CO. She'd be better off just fading away and hoping people forget about her role in the whole thing.
 
Let me guess, James B and Wildcat have heard one version of events at AbuGhraib. They have not read Karpinski's account at all. And they take it for granted the account they have heard is correct and Karpinski doesn't have a credible story. Would that be correct?

I found Karpinski's account, not only credible, there is corroborating evidence, and it is nothing like your version, WC.

Here's an excerpt, a bit long so you can at least read this much. But the entire interview is worth the time. I don't want to derail the thread so you don't need to debate this. If you want to post some links with your version, I'll read them. I suspect you've both decided the versions you've heard are fact and this one is BS.

It amazes me that people who can be so skeptical and scientific in one sense, readily accept the distorted version of news and other media information we get via mainstream channels without much skepticism at all. "Democracy Now!" you believe is too liberal and therefore biased. By all means correct me if I'm wrong about your beliefs.

While Democracy Now does interview anti-war activists and any number of other people with liberal positions, it's because those people are almost never asked for their account of the facts on mainstream news. The reason isn't the people interviewed aren't credible. Because if you go back to DN's news archives from a few years back, you can find many things which were correctly reported on then and only much later did it finally make the mainstream news. When it doesn't make the news, it still can be corroborated by other means.

See how correct DN was on all the Iraq war issues from early interviews with the weapons inspectors to investigative reporting which revealed the fake claims about M Ata meeting Iraqi secret service. Ambassador Wilson disclosed the fake yellow cake in Niger incident in an indepth interview on DN. And BTW, all of Wilson's side of the story has been confirmed as correct from the leaking of his wife's name to the fact he had considerable experience and qualifications to do the investigation. The White House put the rumor out Wilson was only hired because his wife worked at the CIA in order to discredit his report. And here people are still giving Bush the benefit of the doubt, "Gee he just misjudged the intelligence, he couldn't possibly have claimed Saddam was after yellow cake in Niger knowing it was a lie".

Read DN's archives about Enron and faked energy shortages to jack up prices, about all the Jack Abramoff-Tom DeLay-Karl Rove corruption, about Brenner's incompetence writing traffic laws for Iraq while Iraqi's had no water, sewers, electricity and security all the while never leaving the Green Zone. DN has one of the few real investigative news programs still on the air. They've been broadcasting over 10 years and their track record for accuracy and in depth coverage is impeccable.

I give you that background and will add that Karpinski's claims have been substantiated. Rumsfeld was charged in Germany because the prisoner's rights have been systematically thwarted here in this country. You can, if you really want to weigh the evidence before deciding, read a lot more about it. I'll be happy to find more links to the prisoner abuse in Iraq and Guantanamo.

Whether you think terrorist deserve bad treatment, whether you disbelieve innocent people have been placed in these prisons and tortured, there is still the result of this ignorant Bush policy of ignoring human rights. That result is for every suspected terrorist we kill or lock up, 3 more join the fight because they hate what the see being done to their people.
Excerpt from interview of Janice Karpinski by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI:.....General Miller came to visit from Guantanamo Bay. He was the commander of detention operations at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and he was sent to assist the military intelligence interrogators with enhancing their techniques. And he brought with him the techniques that were tested and in use at Guantanamo Bay. And he brought a team of about 20 people, 22 people with him to discuss all aspects of interrogation operations, and actually, he did an in-brief. I was invited to participate or to attend to listen to his in-brief, because he was working almost exclusively with the military intelligence people and the military intelligence interrogators while he was there.

But we owned the locations that he was going to visit, and he ultimately selected Abu Ghraib to be the focus of his efforts, and he told me that he was going to make it the interrogation center for Iraq. He used the term, he was going to “Gitmo-ize” the operation and use the M.P.s to assist the interrogators to enhance interrogations and to obtain more actionable intelligence. I explained to him that the M.P.s were not trained in any kind of interrogation operations, and he told me that he wanted me to give him Abu Ghraib, because that's the location he selected.

AMY GOODMAN: You're both generals?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: Yes. He was a two-star....

.....General Miller said -- his first observation was that they were not -- they were being too nice to them. They were not being aggressive enough. And he used the example at Guantanamo Bay that the prisoners there, when they're brought in, that they're handled by two military policemen. They're escorted everywhere they go -- belly chains, leg irons, hand irons -- and he said, “You have to treat them like dogs.”

AMY GOODMAN: You were there when he said this?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: Yes, I was there when he said that.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, Colonel Pappas ran the prison within the prison, is that right? He ran something called the “hard site”?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: He ran the interrogation operations within the prison, that's correct. And it was -- Cell Block 1A and 1B were the two maximum security wings of the hard site, and during General Miller's visit, either at his order or at his request, General Miller told -- instructed Colonel Pappas to get control of Cell Block 1A.

AMY GOODMAN: Treat the prisoners like dogs. That explains the leashes and making prisoners bark?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: It seems to be consistent with those photographs, yes, with the dog collar, the dog leash and un-muzzled dogs. And, in fact, those techniques have appeared in several memorandums that have been signed by senior people.

.....COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: Well, there were only – interrogation operations were only taking place – at prisons under my control, interrogations were only being conducted at Abu Ghraib, and they were only being conducted in interrogation facilities built specifically for interrogations at Abu Ghraib. There was what they called “Interrogation Facility Wood” and “Interrogation Facility Steel.” The pictures, although they were – when they were released, it was widely reported that this was during interrogation operations. In fact, it was not during interrogation operations. These pictures were being staged and set up at the direction of contract interrogators, civilian contract interrogators, for the use in future interrogations.

AMY GOODMAN: Contract interrogators. What companies?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: There are several. Several of the contractors that were in some of the pictures were with Titan Corporation. There has been sworn statements saying they came from “OGA,” other government agencies, and CACI. I can only say that some of the –

AMY GOODMAN: CACI?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: That's right, and I can only say that the ones that I saw in the photographs were identified as being from Titan Corporation. Now, they were – my experience with Titan Corporation was that they were providing translators, and again, in some of the information that's been released in the ACLU documents, we know that some of the translators were given the opportunity to become interrogators without any training whatsoever in interrogation operations.

AMY GOODMAN: But General Miller had said he wants to blur the bright line between military police and military intelligence, that the military police were to take the prisoners to military intelligence.

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: Correct.

AMY GOODMAN: Your people were to be brought – Were you in charge of military intelligence?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: No, not at all, and the Military Intelligence Brigade Commander did not work for me. He ran the Interrogation Brigade -- the Intelligence Brigade, and he ran interrogations, which was a function at Abu Ghraib.
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Your version of Karpinski not being an aggressive commander differs from one where senior officer set up an interrogation unit Karpinski wasn't in charge of, yet Karpinski was demoted? You really hear a completely different version reading the whole transcript.

The Iraq was has been run by incompetent people at every turn. I don't get the impression Karpinski was anything except a scapegoat as Lindy England was. England was stupid and maybe a bunch of them got carried away. But the people actually responsible are still there "doing a heck of a job". :rolleyes:
 
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