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WTC Discussion: Core Column Temperature & Failure.

solidslade said:
/draws out ACTUAL Military Experience.


Grenades eh?

Do you know which type?

There's fragmentation and explosives and there's incendiary.

Frags are used as conventional weapons.
Those are the ones that go BOOM.

Incendiaries are used to burn metal, destroy enemy weapons and the like.
These DO NOT GO BOOM.

All grenades "ignite", or should you say "trigger".

You however, are confused on a subject you have no experience nor expertise.
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Stand down.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Since I’m not a scientist my knowledge of thermite is miniscule. Could someone answer my questions in lay-woman’s terms?

I know this YouTube video of a British television show demonstrating the use of thermite has been posted before. So here’s my questions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

1. The thermite in the video burns itself out quite quickly. So what’s the validity of the argument that the WTC fires that burned for weeks after 9/11 were somehow thermite related?
2. Since thermite seems to melt steel why was there so many tons of steel recovered from ground zero? Shouldn’t most of it melted away if thermite was being used?
3. The thermite reaction in the video was very, very quick. If it was used in the WTC wouldn’t the buildings have come down quicker than they did?
4. Why would the conspirators call off the bomb-sniffing dogs at the WTC before 9/11 when they know those dogs can’t detect thermite anyway?
5. Thermite seems to burn in a hap-hazard manner. How could the conspirators be sure it would bring down WTC 1 & 2?
6. In the video it seems to take about a pound of thermite to burn through the engine block of the car. Wouldn't that mean it would take thousands of tons of thermite to bring down WTC 1 & 2?
7. How would thermite in WTC 1 & 2 have been ignited? If the answer is the fire from the crashes would ignite it, then wouldn't thermite "bombs" have to be planted in every floor of both towers because the conspiractors couldn't be sure which floors the planes would crash into?
8. And lastly, has thermite ever been used in a controlled demolition of a building? If not, why don’t demolition experts use it?

Thanks in advance!
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NIST says this at http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Furthermore, a very large quantity of thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited) or another incendiary compound would have had to be placed on at least the number of columns damaged by the aircraft impact and weakened by the subsequent fires to bring down a tower. Thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and can require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.
Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.
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Thermite would end as you see in the video, it will burn through things that can melt like steel. It works with gravity. Unlikely it would stay in contact with the vertical columns.

As soon as Dr Jones figures out the rest we will all know how it was used on 9/11.

But since, like NIST said, iron rust, Al, and sulfur are present in the WTC; the stuff thermite is made of is in the WTC; there is no proof of thermite actually being involved.

Dr Jones was just making up things to discredit the Bush administration. He is very biased politically. These are my assumptions which are better than Dr Jone's assumptions.
 
Mr. Skinny said:
The "Joint Strike Fighter" you saw was a hologram, so, yes, you were mistaken.

Aren't we crafty?

If you made the staff meetings on time, you'd know these things.
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Da*n.
Sure was a LOUD Hologram. I wondered why there were no cigars available, as is traditional at a first flight.
I'll do better. My son is home for college (heh!), and I have a new supply of socks.
 
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28th Kingdom said:
I never said that...don't even know where you got it from.
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It's a direct logical progression from your claim that the core columns could hold the entire upper mass with the outer columns buckled.

Now by saying the outer columns don't need to be cut, you are saying they cannot support the entire mass with the core columns cut. Remember, there are over 200 outer columns, vs the 37 remaining core columns.

With the Hat Truss you cannot have it both ways.

Explain this contradiction?
 
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28th Kingdom said:
Left-brained people are so unbelievably naive. If they only knew what the world really looks like.
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What in the world is that supposed to mean? You get tired of being proved wrong on every single subject about 9/11? Please enlighten us on what the world "really looks like"
 
28th Kingdom said:
Left-brained people are so unbelievably naive. If they only knew what the world really looks like.
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Would you care to guess what the experts currently think about left-brain right-brain differences? (see, now you *are* in my area of expertise...)

(hint: you know less about the brain than you do about thermite.)
 
28th Kingdom said:
"The NIST WTC investigation suffered from a paucity of physical testing. Effectively, all of NIST’s conclusions are derived from computer simulation."
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This is quite telling. Arm-chair physicists are not satisfied with an iterative calculation that takes into account all of the known variables including heat, structural capacity, bending, flexing, eccentricites of load and so on. Rather, they believe that the only way to substantiate the claim that the towers could collapse is to build another WTC tower, crash a plane into it, then record the results.

The problem with this type of thinking is that it runs contrary to the nature of scientific investigation. Conspiracy theorists are only in the buisness of challenging what happened, not why or how. Consider for a moment that you've never addressed the claim of how thermite/thermate got into the towers.

Indeed, the NIST report makes the broad assumption that the planes crashed into the WTC towers were the initiating factor in their collapse. It follows, then, that we don't need another model to determine what happened. Rather, we need a simulation which can show, step by step, what happened based on the calculation.

Why should we assume that all conclusions derived from a computer simulation are inferior to empirical physical tests? In what places are the computer models in error?
 
28th Kingdom said:
Left-brained people are so unbelievably naive. If they only knew what the world really looks like.
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You are right brained! I think you mean lame brained, but that explains why:

You make up random stories of how thermite would work and you pick random ways to make it work when you can't.
You intuitive part of your right brain is malfunctioning.
Your holistic part is off for the duration.
Your inability to synthesize a working model of your theory means you right brain has cut that section out.
Your subjective section is up and messing up everything.
You failure to see the big picture is indicative of that section missing.
Therefore you right side of the brain is only functioning on 2 of 6 cylinders.

You are correct your are not using or are missing the following Left Brain fuctions:

You use no logic to prepare your arguments.
You have no logical sequence to your arguments.
You are not rational.
You seem to lack the most rudimentary analytical skills.
You seem to have zero objective arguments.
You mess up the parts that make up the whole.
You Left Brain is not working.

Summary, you are functioning on only 2 of 12 cylinders most brains posses. You need to work on the other 10 areas; this could take years.

Good luck we look forward to you graduating from Grammar School and High School! See ya in 7 years.


super summary - what you see as the world is because you got all the parts wrong!
 
beachnut said:
You are right brained! I think you mean lame brained, but that explains why:

You make up random stories of how thermite would work and you pick random ways to make it work when you can't.
You intuitive part of your right brain is malfunctioning.
Your holistic part is off for the duration.
Your inability to synthesize a working model of your theory means you right brain has cut that section out.
Your subjective section is up and messing up everything.
You failure to see the big picture is indicative of that section missing.
Therefore you right side of the brain is only functioning on 2 of 6 cylinders.

You are correct your are not using or are missing the following Left Brain fuctions:

You use no logic to prepare your arguments.
You have no logical sequence to your arguments.
You are not rational.
You seem to lack the most rudimentary analytical skills.
You seem to have zero objective arguments.
You mess up the parts that make up the whole.
You Left Brain is not working.

Summary, you are functioning on only 2 of 12 cylinders most brains posses. You need to work on the other 10 areas; this could take years.

Good luck we look forward to you graduating from Grammar School and High School! See ya in 7 years.


super summary - what you see as the world is because you got all the parts wrong!
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i think his synthesis cylinder is going, but maybe its misfiring

he has after all managed to synthesize a whole conspiracy from nothing
 
28th Kingdom said:
Just so everyone knows, these are the people on my ignore list:

beachnut, dog town, horatius, jamrat, tbone, stateofgrace, kookbreaker, architect

I can see everyone else. But, these people (on my ignore list) really shouldn't direct anything at me, because you're only making it more difficult for those who actually want to discuss this topic, to follow the conversation.
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You forgot to revise it!

Just so everyone knows, 28th list should read:

beachnut, dog town, horatius, jamrat, tbone, stateofgrace, kookbreaker, architect, facts, logic, science, physics, math, rational thought, analytical skill and more!
 
The problem is that left-brain people...although genius-like in certain aspects of sciences and studies...have absolutely NO common sense. And, I mean NONE!

That's why there is such a problem with our communication...we see the world in two entirely different ways. Right Brain people...SEE THE WHOLE FORREST i.e. the big picture. AND left-brained people only see parts of the forest i.e. THE TREES

Right-brain people...can look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

Ask a few questions like...what type of building...how tall, what type of damage. 47 story, steel structured high rise, with a few scattered fires, and some exterior damage (on one side) from falling debris. We take in this basic information, watch the video a few times...and, conclude...that the building couldn't have physically collapsed the way it does from the damages reported. It doesn't take any degree in structural engineering...it just takes common sense.
 
28th Kingdom said:
The problem is that left-brain people...although genius-like in certain aspects of sciences and studies...have absolutely NO common sense. And, I mean NONE!

That's why there is such a problem with our communication...we see the world in two entirely different ways. Right Brain people...SEE THE WHOLE FORREST i.e. the big picture. AND left-brained people only see parts of the forest i.e. THE TREES

Right-brain people...can look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

Ask a few questions like...what type of building...how tall, what type of damage. 47 story, steel structured high rise, with a few scattered fires, and some exterior damage (on one side) from falling debris. We take in this basic information, watch the video a few times...and, conclude...that the building couldn't have physically collapsed the way it does from the damages reported. It doesn't take any degree in structural engineering...it just takes common sense.
Click to expand...

In other words, right brain folks just take a superficial look.

Left brain people will look for pictures of the south side.
 
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28th Kingdom said:
The problem is that left-brain people...although genius-like in certain aspects of sciences and studies...have absolutely NO common sense. And, I mean NONE!

That's why there is such a problem with our communication...we see the world in two entirely different ways. Right Brain people...SEE THE WHOLE FORREST i.e. the big picture. AND left-brained people only see parts of the forest i.e. THE TREES

Right-brain people...can look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

Ask a few questions like...what type of building...how tall, what type of damage. 47 story, steel structured high rise, with a few scattered fires, and some exterior damage (on one side) from falling debris. We take in this basic information, watch the video a few times...and, conclude...that the building couldn't have physically collapsed the way it does from the damages reported. It doesn't take any degree in structural engineering...it just takes common sense.
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unfortunately common sense is not the solution to all problems (just the common ones)

if it were no one would ever need a degree in anything, just common sense

how did we build a rocket to go to the moon? common sense
how did we construct the worlds tallest structure? common sense
how are we trying to cure cancer? common sense
 
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