WTC Discussion: Core Column Temperature & Failure.

[JimBenArm]

I don't know what the heck kind of computer you're using, but my computer keyboard contains an astonishing percentage of cookie crumbs, coffee stains, what looks like a piece of deli meat and whatever that slime is that my baby's hands are always coated with - it's kind of a mixture of drool and applesauce.

EWWW!

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Additionally, if the material were ignited thermite it would be yellowish-white in color.

Correction: I took the aforementioned 4700 degree temp of thermite to be C it is actually F, which would put it at ~2866K. Which is comparable to a tungsten lamp, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

 

[Horatius]

....i wish ockham had a sword, a dramatic resheathing would go nicely here...

Ask and ye shall be answered....

 

[apathoid]

Look at this video of a thermite reaction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEmHJORTlqk

Compare it to the molten material flowing from WTC 2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=545886459853896774

Lots of very different things can look alike, and ironically, lots of things that are the same can look different.

For example, if I were to post three pictures of two different species of bird, could you tell which was the odd bird - just by looking at those three pictures?

Similarly, if I posted 3 different pictures of molten metal, could you tell which one was different?

 

[Popsickle]

OMG...I'm so glad you said that. THAT'S exactly what NIST has done...and that's what all of you continue to do. When we were talking about the core columns collapsing...everyone just tries to use a bunch of big words...to explain something that is impossible. Hey, man...we've got gravity loads transferring and lateral forces interacting with exoskeletons....not too mention that plane which crashed at 500mph. The plane impact alone...warped the physical domain and all scientific laws within it....so yea, the 37 non-severed core columns in WTC 2 could have buckled and broke in the one second of pressure it encountered after the outer columns failed.

At what temperature does glass glow yellow-orange in broad daylight?

Thanks.

28th Kingdom,
I have a rather simple question for you: Do you know why, how and when to use an ellipsis?

 

[MortFurd]

For everyone claiming that molten aluminum doesn't glow, take a look here.

This site is from a guy whose hobby is making model rockets. He makes and casts the engines himself using a little forge in his yard. Take a look at number 11. This is a sequence showing the melting of the aluminum that he's using to cast a rocket motor. The last photo clearly shows the melted aluminum glowing red. Also, he refers to the aluminum melting and glowing "dull red."

I noticed that molten aluminum glows red while watching a documentary on german TV this weekend. The documentary included some footage of the casting of aluminum psitons, and the metal glowed red when pouring out of the oven.

All you CT clowns who think that aluminum doesn't glow when molten need some serious work on your Google skills. I found the rocket guy in about thirty seconds. Just search for "Aluminum melted." Leave out the quotes. The rocket dude was hit number 2.

 

[28th Kingdom]

we saw planes crash into the buildings

Yes, we all agree.

we see the columns bowing inward

No, you didn't - I explained why that video is an optical illusion. The only thing you see bowing in...is smoke. You never see a single shot of the actual outer columns bow in. How can you see the columns bowing, when they are completely covered in smoke? Someone said...no I don't see the smoke going in...well, how do you see the outer columns going in if they are obscured with smoke?

The differences in air pressure between the inside of the building and the outside of the building could have caused the smoke to be sucked in like that. I said...if the columns were moving inwards...than that would create an air draft that moved outward, which means the smoke would have moved away from the building instead of into the building. I gave an example, of standing in front of a door, and pushing it away from you. The door is going away but the air current is coming towards you in the opposite direction of the doors movements.

we see the video of the perimeter columns failing

No, we don't - see last comment

we see the tower collapse

Yes, we do.


Let's finish our analysis on the molten material flowing from WTC 2, before we move on to the video of the outer columns bowing.

Thanks.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

I noticed that molten aluminum glows red while watching a documentary on german TV this weekend. The documentary included some footage of the casting of aluminum psitons, and the metal glowed red when pouring out of the oven.

interesting, i learned aluminum glows red when melted byc hucking beer cans into bonfires

all roads lead to rome i suppose...now if we could only get 28th kingdom out of the ditch and onto a road...

 

[JimBenArm]

interesting, i learned aluminum glows red when melted byc hucking beer cans into bonfires

all roads lead to rome i suppose...now if we could only get 28th kingdom out of the ditch and onto a road...

Yeah, he's definitely stuck in a rut!

 

[aggle-rithm]

Let's finish our analysis on the molten material flowing from WTC 2, before we move on to the video of the outer columns bowing.

Well...

What you're doing is really not an analysis. It is more like making claims and refusing to provide support for them.

We KNOW you believe this stuff. Now tell us why WE should believe it.

 

[28th Kingdom]

Correction: I took the aforementioned 4700 degree temp of thermite to be C it is actually F, which would put it at ~2866K. Which is comparable to a tungsten lamp, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

Okay...now tell me what material on the impact floors could have burned at 2866°C?

For temperature intervals rather than specific temperatures, 1 kelvin = 1 °C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin

 

[babazaroni]

Yes, we all agree.



No, you didn't - I explained why that video is an optical illusion. The only thing you see bowing in...is smoke. You never see a single shot of the actual outer columns bow in. How can you see the columns bowing, when they are completely covered in smoke? Someone said...no I don't see the smoke going in...well, how do you see the outer columns going in if they are obscured with smoke?

Sagging columns

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Okay...now tell me what material on the impact floors could have burned at 2866°C?

Red herring. You have not demonstrated that the flow's visible color in the video is an accurate representation of what it was at the time; that its color was due soley to blackbody radiation; and that the color is consistent with blackbody radiation color at ~2900C.

For temperature intervals rather than specific temperatures, 1 kelvin = 1 °C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? What does this have to do with anything we are discussing?

 

[28th Kingdom]

interesting, i learned aluminum glows red when melted byc hucking beer cans into bonfires

all roads lead to rome i suppose...now if we could only get 28th kingdom out of the ditch and onto a road...

How many times...do I have to address the same facts. NIST even states in their FAQ:

"Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery." NIST FAQ 11

Here is a video of molten aluminum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gge5NyqoNIQ

Any material can glow red/orange, if heated to a high enough temperature. Glass, aluminum, steel - whatever. The problem is that nothing on those impact floors could possibly burn hot enough to turn glass yellow-orange, steel yellow-orange or aluminum yellow-orange. It would take over 2000C, and the max air temp on the impact floors was only 1000C (That's what NIST even says)

Therma/ite let's off a chemical reaction, that generates its own heat and its own molten metal. It is a powder-like substance that can be ignited with the temp from a standard fire. Once, ignited a chemical reaction is set off, that produces extreme heat...which in turn creates molten metal.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

No, you didn't - I explained why that video is an optical illusion. The only thing you see bowing in...is smoke. You never see a single shot of the actual outer columns bow in. How can you see the columns bowing, when they are completely covered in smoke? Someone said...no I don't see the smoke going in...well, how do you see the outer columns going in if they are obscured with smoke?

you dismissed the video as an optical illusion, but i also posted 2 pictures that you didnt address, also, this page contains several more pictures
http://www.debunking911.com/sag.htm

Let's finish our analysis on the molten material flowing from WTC 2, before we move on to the video of the outer columns bowing.

since you jump topics so much im really not sure which one predates the other

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

,,. It is a powder-like substance that can be ignited with the temp from a standard fire....

Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons. The torch can preheat the entire pile of thermite which will make it explode instead of burning slowly when it finally reaches ignition temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite#Ignition

 

[28th Kingdom]

Red herring. You have not demonstrated that the flow's visible color in the video is an accurate representation of what it was at the time; that its color was due soley to blackbody radiation; and that the color is consistent with blackbody radiation color at ~2900C.

Red herring....because I'm addresses exactly what you're claiming...okay. I like how you change the facts i.e. the color of the molten material, when it inconveniences you.

 

[Horatius]

Okay...now tell me what material on the impact floors could have burned at 2866°C?

For temperature intervals rather than specific temperatures, 1 kelvin = 1 °C

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin

Psst: Some let him know that 2866C =/= 2866K.....and that the 1C = 1K rule only applies to the size of the steps in the scale, not to the absolute values.

More proof (as if we needed it) that he doesn't know jack about science. And that he can't read. From the link he cited: °C = K − 273.15

Good job there, Cromedome.

 

[Horatius]

Sagging columns

[qimg]http://www.debunking911.com/sag.ht2.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.debunking911.com/pullin2.jpg[/qimg]

I think we need Perry Logan to make a new video. It should be of him sitting there, saying, "Optical Illusion!" over and over.....

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Red herring....because I'm addresses exactly what you're claiming...okay.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I was making a claim. What claim am I making?

I like how you change the facts i.e. the color of the molten material, when it inconveniences you.

You do realize the correction I posted doesn't hurt your argument, right? The correction shows that the blackbody color of ignited thermite is not as far in to the white part of the spectrum, right? Or have you not bothered to read the linked reference materials?