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WTC Discussion: Core Column Temperature & Failure.

Lads, does one of you want to remind the tumshie here that even though he has me on ignore, everyone else can see my responses to his technically niaive (I'm being kind) posts?
 
Architect said:
Yawn, yawn.

You're seriously suggesting that the strength of each column was such that itwould not fail under any imposed loading, but would drive like a pile into the underlying substrate.

Presumably you realise just how ridiculous such a proposition really is?
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I doubt it - he is the same genius who produced this pearl of wisdom.

28th Kingdom said:
Oh, right....the video footage of OBL saying he hates America and wants to attack it. Does OBL speak english? How do you know what he's saying? He could be talking about making grits and eggs for all you know. You trust what the media tells you he's saying?
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aggle-rithm said:
Pancaking was possible in the towers
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I applaud you for being a truly independent thinker. No one in the scientific world (minus some governmental agencies) including, NIST...concluded (after final analysis) that a pancake collapse was possible in the towers.

You maverick you.
 
DavidJames said:
I doubt it - he is the same genius who produced this pearl of wisdom.
Oh, right....the video footage of OBL saying he hates America and wants to attack it. Does OBL speak english? How do you know what he's saying? He could be talking about making grits and eggs for all you know. You trust what the media tells you he's saying?
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Wow. I must have missed that one. So all this time OBL was giving us a recipe for a delicious traditional Southern breakfast, and all the Arabic speaking people in the country knew but thought it was a great joke to let all us mainstream media automatons think he actually hated America.

LOL
 
twinstead said:
Wow. I must have missed that one. So all this time OBL was giving us a recipe for a delicious and traditional Southern breakfast, and all the Arabic speaking people in the country knew but thought it was a great joke to let all us mainstream media automatons think he actually hated America.

LOL
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Yup, all of the world's Arabic speakers are in on the plot too. :eek:


Anyone think he's ever going to realise that the Sheffield and Edinburgh research papers completely debunk his "no failure of the steel" argument? :rolleyes:
 
28th Kingdom said:
At the sake of sounding like a genius...you could hammer an asteroid from outer space straight down on one of the (undamaged) twin towers...and it would not cause a chain reaction of floor failures from top to bottom. If anything, it would drill the vertical columns into the ground like a nail.
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Can I nominate this as the single stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum?

And I've read both Ts1234's threads and Christophera's threads!

If you seriously expect us to believe this, then you're so far round the bend, you can't even see the bend from where you are.

I think I've finally found a new sig, in the tradition of mocking Ctists....
 
DavidJames said:
I don't know, his belief that foreign languages cannot be interpreted is pretty stupid.
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Oh, I agree that's stupid too, but not as stupid as the Asteroid Sledgehammer Supposition. And yes, the acronym is deliberate.....
 
twinstead said:
Wow. I must have missed that one. So all this time OBL was giving us a recipe for a delicious traditional Southern breakfast, and all the Arabic speaking people in the country knew but thought it was a great joke to let all us mainstream media automatons think he actually hated America. LOL
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Bin-Ladin Denies Involvement in the 9/11 Attacks

 "The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent," published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September (2001) place and date of interview not given.

http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html


Bin Laden denied involvement with the 9/11 attacks five days later on the Al-Jazeera satellite channel:

"I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation ... " This denial was broadcasted worldwide, but the Bush administration urged media in the U.S. not to show the video since it might contain secret signals to Al Qaeda terrorists.

On September 28, 2001 in the Pakistani newspaper Daily Ummat [5], bin Laden again denied any involvement with the attacks, and suggested he was being framed:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people ... There exists a government within the government of the United States. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out these attacks. The United States should trace the perpetrators of these attacks to those persons who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own nation could survive."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes


I'm asking nicely guys...please don't get off topic in this thread...I just felt compelled to reply to this, but please - someone make an intelligent counterpoint to this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2184769#post2184769

An intelligent rebuttal, does not consist of avoidance of issues and/or attacks on personal credibility/intelligence.

Thank you.
 
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I don't know, his belief that foreign languages cannot be interpreted is pretty stupid.
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Ouia, je ca pense aussi. Peut-etre (ahahah) il est fou? Peut-etre c'est parce-que il as seulement cinq ans?
 
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Horatius said:
Can I nominate this as the single stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum?

And I've read both Ts1234's threads and Christophera's threads!

If you seriously expect us to believe this, then you're so far round the bend, you can't even see the bend from where you are.

I think I've finally found a new sig, in the tradition of mocking Ctists....
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I would actually nominate it as the most stupid thing I have ever seen on any forum, ever.
 
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28th Kingdom said:
An intelligent rebuttal, does not consist of avoidance of issues and attacks on personal credibility and/or intelligence.
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Oh, my goodness. He said this and directed it at someone else?

Incredible.

Irony is just wasted on these people, isn't it?
 
28th Kingdom said:
"NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers..." NIST FAQ 2

"Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom..." NIST FAQ 2

Besides the clear Doublethink that I have pointed out before...I would like someone to tell me how the collapses could have progressed from the top to the bottom, without a pancaking of the floors?

"As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass." NIST FAQ 6

What are they describing if not a pancaking of the floors? How is the increasing falling mass in this progressive collapse from top to bottom, not a pancake collapse? What are the progressively falling floors from top to bottom doing if not pancaking? Where are the falling floors disappearing to as the collapse progresses from top to bottom? If they are not stacking, than where are they going?
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You're committing equivocation:
Equivocation
The fallacy of equivocation occurs when an important term in an argument is used in two (or sometimes more) senses. An example might be:
Why is it okay to kill time but not to kill people?​
Here the word "kill" is being used in two different ways: the first time it is employed as a figure of speech, where "killing time" means to use up some spare moments in one way or another; in the second it takes on a more specific meaning, the kind we normally associate with it. The person asking the question has confused these, so that something else we could ask with the word would mean different things depending on which sense we adopted. For instance, we could inquire, "how did you kill time?" and "how did you kill the person?" The first would give us a reply that describes an action and could be all manner of things; the second, though, would have to specifically be about the way in which someone was murdered. Asking the question, then, shows a misunderstanding in the use of the word.
In general, we can tell if someone has equivocated by finding a term used in two or more contexts, such that its meaning in one is different than in the other(s). Take another instance:
My school is supposed to provide free tuition but I've seen restrictions in the lessons I've attended.​
This time the word "free" has been implicitly equivocated, with it meaning "free of charge" in the first instance but "free of restrictions" in the second, resulting in a confused argument. If we set it out again, this time removing the problematic term and replacing it with synonyms, we might get the following:
P1: Tuition at my school does not cost students any money;
P2: There are restrictions on course content, etc;
C: Therefore, the tuition does cost money after all.​
The conclusion does not follow and the error is plain to see. Rewriting an argument in this way is sometimes the best way to note (or to demonstrate) that an equivocation has occurred.
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http://www.galilean-library.org/int16.html#equivocation
 
28th Kingdom said:
An intelligent rebuttal, does not consist of avoidance of issues...
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I'm glad you feel that way. Now, if you'll be so kind.......

Architect said:
Can I remind eveyone that 28th has specifically avoided answering the following technical papers which explain - in real terms, not half-arsed assumptions and video interpretation - the engineering basis for the failure?

The Edinburgh one is quite interesting because it takes a slightly different slat on the failure, not that it helps the CTers one iota.

http://fire-research.group.shef.ac.u..._Baltimore.pdf

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstrea...1/WTCpaper.pdf


For non-Brits, Sheffield University has a very well respected fire engineering unit who have looked at WTC on at least a few occasions and seem to have no great problems with the official theory. Edinburgh has a bit of a lead in general structures (arguably).

Of course 28th has me on ignore because I've had the temerity to highlight his evasion on this point. To be honest I'm amazed he's now started a new thread on it.
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28th Kingdom said:
Bin-Ladin Denies Involvement in the 9/11 Attacks in the 9/11 Attacks

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_tapes
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Of course you forget about the tapes broadcasted by Al Jazeera since then, where Bin Laden leaves no doubts about his involvement. You can find these in the very same Wikipedia article where you found the initial denial.

28th Kingdom said:
I'm asking nicely guys...please don't get off topic in this thread...I just felt compelled to reply to this, but please someone make an intelligent counterpoint to this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2184769#post2184769

An intelligent rebuttal, does not consist of avoidance of issues and attacks on personal credibility and/or intelligence.
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Ok, I will cherry pick like you do all the time.
I FULLY AGREE with what your said here:
28th Kingdom said:
Because the columns and floors are constructed in two entirely different directions. The floors are stacked horizontal to the ground, but the columns are built vertical to the ground.
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And now, please, would you be so kind and finally answer Architect's query?
 
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Apathoid,

I make my own claims...I present my own theories...and I back them up with evidence/facts/analysis - if someone wants to make their own claims or theories...then they can start a thread, and debate others about their claims and theories. It's not my job to prove or disprove other peoples' claims and theories....I need only back up my own claims and theories.

Thank you.
 
28th Kingdom said:
Apathoid,

I make my own claims...I present my own theories...and I back them up with evidence/facts/analysis - if someone wants to make their own claims or theories...then they can start a thread, and debate others about their claims and theories. It's not my job to prove or disprove other peoples' claims and theories....I need only back up my own claims and theories.

Thank you.
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When are you going to start?
 
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