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POPCORN! Gravy is on...! :D

Wizard said:
Are you serious? Gravy compared the crashing of a plane to a bullet.

Bermas was totally convincing
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Actually I though Bermas was totally full of lies. He reminded me of Magilla Gorilla, but Magilla looks better than Bermas.

The comparison of a plane going as fast as a bullet is a very good analogy; excellent. Compared to Bermas fantasy and out right lies of no people and no plane in the hole in the ground. Poor research raises it head on Bermas as there are many examples of impact where most ot the plane is buried in the ground.
 
beachnut said:
Actually I though Bermas was totally full of lies. He reminded me of Magilla Gorilla, but Magilla looks better than Bermas.

The comparison of a plane going as fast as a bullet is a very good analogy; excellent. Compared to Bermas fantasy and out right lies of no people and no plane in the hole in the ground. Poor research raises it head on Bermas as there are many examples of impact where most ot the plane is buried in the ground.
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Dylan Avery looked almost as if Bermas lies were making him queasy. Could he actually be getting a conscience and do you think we might actually hear him cry out "I created a monster"?
 
That was excellent, Gravy. Debating conspiracy nuts is much more difficult than some people think. The nuts can essentially just make up stuff as they go, and if you don't have total knowledge it will be hard to debunk them on the fly.

There is a famous story from 19th century England about the original Flat Earth Society (I don't know whether it is true) saying that the flat earthers typically were perceived to have "won" public debates about the shape of the earth, even by people who knew the truth very well.

I think this debate will be perceived by almost anyone not a die-hard troofer as a quite total win by Gravy. Well done!
 
Just waking up in Hong Kong. You guys always break all the fun stuff in the wee hours of the morning, and I invariably wake up to a six page thread of some sort, usually causing early morning migraines, but this one's lovely! And this is THEIR slant!

Great work, guys!

I think we can see where DA's heading. IMHO, he's moving towards a heavy-handed LIHOP approach. Hard for him to give up on his original nonsense 'cuz it got him his following, but he's clearly uncomfortable most of the time Bermas is talking.
 
During the shows I was making a list of their major errors, including those I didn't get to address (like KSM). I had meant to recite those at the end of each show, but I didn't catch the floor manager's cues.

It ticks me off that the LC guys released this. It's going to discourage people from seeing the version with good sound, good camera angles, descriptive titles, close-ups of the photos I used, etc.

I need to apologize to all my former girlfriends. I never quite realized that I have no lips whatsoever.
 
Don't worry about that too much, Gravy. Some of us prefer the "raw data" look of this edit. I'll be watching both, anyway.
 
Looks like it's not just the Debunkers here who think the Loosers lost:

Wow, that went horribly.
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As much as I like Dylan and Jason and Korey, I think they are not the best representatives of our movement. Not that they are "bad" representatives, but they sound like what they are: relatively insecure young guys (RIYG). I think that David Ray Griffin, Webster Tarpley, etc. would be much better at steering the conversation in more effective directions instead of taking the bait. This is exactly the reason that ghastly woman at Democracynow! chose the LooseChange guys on her 5th anniversary show instead of someone older and more confident.
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Why didn't Jason and Dylan bring up WTC7? Don't know.

After admitting that LC contains some flaws, why didn't Dylan clarify whether or not LC: Final Cut would set the record straight?

Are these guys laying a trap for these two old geezers? Do they want to appear like lame ducks as a set up to the smack down to come when Final Cut is dropped? Could be.
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It's hard to knock you guys as you usually do a good job with these guys but you need to be more prepared.
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I have to admit that I am a little disappointed though:

pomeroo said:
Did Gravy lose the debate? Well, I suppose I can let the cat out of the bag now that the truth has been revealed. To see the event in all its glory, you'll still have to wait a few days, but here's how it went.

Bermas started talking about something--I think it was Bermas. I adhered to my plan of seizing the psychological upper hand by emitting a series of Tarzan yells. The Boys appeared flustered. As I ripped off my microphone, I noticed that Mark was already naked and standing on the table. I became a human whirlwind, all elbows and feet. Unfortunately, my kinetic energy caused me to overshoot, and the full fury of my assault fell on the cameramen. Acting independently, Mark had gone through a plate glass window and was racing down the hall, screaming like a banshee. Hereabouts I distinctly heard Gary Popkin, the producer, speak the word "hoses."

What happened next is somewhat unclear. I recall lying on the sidewalk, soaked to the skin, thinking that something was terribly wrong, that it was Thursday night and the weekend hadn't even begun yet. One of the cops said something about a "fast-paced show." This morning, I find that my car is now the property of the firm, Neidelman-Goetz-Neidelman. I have to look into this.
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:D
 
Gravy said:
It ticks me off that the LC guys released this. It's going to discourage people from seeing the version with good sound, good camera angles, descriptive titles, close-ups of the photos I used, etc.

I need to apologize to all my former girlfriends. I never quite realized that I have no lips whatsoever.
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I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the "real" version, to be released, is going to show the LC guys in better light. By having an amateur shoot this one is, in my view, a big backfire. Avery is centered in the shot of you 3, and unluckily for the LC folks - his wooden and apprehensive performance is center stage. You can't help but notice it. Big tactical error on their part.

You really did well, Gravy, as did Ron.
 
From 911 Blogger

Dylan and Jason should NOT be at the forefront of this movement. In fact, NOBODY should be at the forefront because any effective movement for change HAS NO LEADERS.
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Sometimes they astound, sometimes they amuse, sometimes both.
 
ConspiRaider said:
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the "real" version, to be released, is going to show the LC guys in better light. By having an amateur shoot this one is, in my view, a big backfire. Avery is centered in the shot of you 3, and unluckily for the LC folks - his wooden and apprehensive performance is center stage. You can't help but notice it. Big tactical error on their part.

You really did well, Gravy, as did Ron.
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Thats very true you get to see them as a group and I got the impression Dylan was uncomfortable, Kind of like Nixon in the Kennedy Nixon debate. I think the official version will be mainly talking head shots with no clue as to the body language of the ones not speaking.
 
Mark:

Well done. I have to take my hat off to Ron for not allowing things to get side tracked. I also commend LTW for remaining more civil than they usually do.

You can see that to do this entire subject justice, you could make a year long TV series out of it.

Dylan does look somewhat "uncomfortable". Hard to say why. Maybe knowing who he was up against. They both know Mark by his reputation, and both probably feared he would unleash his full wrath upon them...lol.

I agree with those who think Dylan is changing. I think he is DEFINITELY leaning toward LIHOP. Be interesting to see if LC:FC leans like this. The film he describes as the best one to represent the movement, "Press for Truth" is not even LIHOP, but rather, Let It Happen Out of INCOMPETENCE and ARROGANCE.

TAM
 
ConspiRaider said:
I'm going to hazard a guess and say that the "real" version, to be released, is going to show the LC guys in better light. By having an amateur shoot this one is, in my view, a big backfire. Avery is centered in the shot of you 3, and unluckily for the LC folks - his wooden and apprehensive performance is center stage. You can't help but notice it. Big tactical error on their part.
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That's a great point. I hadn't thought of it. But let's not tell them before they release the second part. HEY GUYS, YOU LOOK SUPREMELY CONFIDENT. TWO THUMBS UP!

The first show was even more subdued than I remember it. The second one gets more animated, IIRC.
 
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T.A.M. said:
Dylan does look somewhat "uncomfortable". Hard to say why.
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That´s an easy one, TAM - you remeber the Jedi Mind control?
Well, sitting so near to Gravy makes you inevitably think about
these forces and also what could happen to you if you say
something wrong. :boxedin:
 
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