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Roberts to Debate Bermas on 'Hardfire'

Wizard said:
And rightly so. They are trying to distribute a film and get a message to people.

If you want to deny them a media platform, why offer to debate for an hours tv show?
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i dont want to deny them a media platform, its their right to say whatever they want

however, its also our right to question whatever they say and show them for the scheisters they really are
 
I'm sure you did a great job, Mark. You know the facts and evidence cold and you are a far, far better debator than the best the troofers could ever come up with.

I'm smiling because your post (#235) reminds me of instances of walking out of the exam room after writing the LSAT or walking out of an exam room after writing a 100% final, and thinking that I'd tanked them, but it turned out that I'd aced them. Simultaneously, those who walked out of the exam rooms thinking they'd aced the LSAT or the finals ended up doing poorly.
Thus, I am very much looking forward to the video.

That said, I sympathize about the format issues. It is weird enough to be filmed when you're not used to it, as most of us are not, and in a debate such as this, it's easy to get sidetracked by troofers blathering nonsense that you could easily spend much more time on if the circumstances allowed, but instead having to move on to other topics without fully addressing the ones raised earlier.

I'm sure you did a great job, and I look forward to seeing the video. Kudos to you for stepping up to the plate. You do great work, Mark, and your efforts are greatly appreciated by many.
 
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LashL said:
I'm sure you did a great job, Mark. Your post reminds me of instances of walking out of the exam room after writing the LSAT or walking out of an exam room after writing a 100% final in law school, and thinking that I'd tanked the tests, but it turned out that I'd aced them. Simulataneously, those who walked out of the exam rooms thinking they'd aced the LSAT or the finals ended up doing poorly.

Thus, I am very much looking forward to the video.

That said, I sympathize about the format issues. It is weird enough to be filmed when you're not used to it, as most of us are not, and in a debate such as this, it's easy to get sidetracked by troofers blathering nonsense that you could easily spend much more time on if the circumstances allowed, but instead having to move on to other topics without fully addressing the ones raised earlier.

I'm sure you did a great job, and I look forward to seeing the video. Kudos to you for stepping up to the plate.
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Thanks, LashL. To be clear, I don't feel unsure or bad about my performance at all. I think it will be clear that Ron and I have the goods and that the LC guys do not. But there is an equal-time philosophy that by default works in the conspiracists' favor.
 
Gravy said:
Thanks, LashL. To be clear, I don't feel unsure or bad about my performance at all. I think it will be clear that Ron and I have the goods and that the LC guys do not. But there is an equal-time philosophy that by default works in the conspiracists' favor.
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I can hardly wait to see it "live" ish.

I've no doubt at all that you and Ron presented the goods and that the tinhatters did not and could not make any meaningful response to it.

Yeah, it sucks to have to give the conspiracists equal time in which they will simply spout nonsense, but in the interests of fairness and all that, it couldn't be any other way, of course. It would be better if they utilized their time more effectively, of course, but they appear to be incapable of doing so.

In the end, it's all about perception, and it wouldn't do for it to appear that they weren't given equal time, despite their lunacy, so it's good that they were given the opportunity to respond and that time was documented.

As an added bonus, every additional moment they are given to spout their lunacy trades off against every moment that their irrational beliefs are debunked, so in the end, they lose "believers" and the ranks of critical thinkers increase. ;)
 
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Thanks for the well-written synopsis, Mark, am definitely looking forward to seeing it at the earliest. I'm resisting the temptation to peek into that surprise you mentioned. Not a creature is stirring, not even a mouse click...
 
Gravy said:
Hey all. Thanks for the good wishes. I'm back from the taping. I enjoyed it, but it went SO fast. There just isn't time in that format to get into any detail.
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Good point. I am constantly surprised when the host gives the cue that the segment is over; almost inevitably I discover when I look at the clock that I got all or more than the time allotted, and about three times longer than I thought.

I think it will be confusing to viewers who aren't very familiar with the subject matter.
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In other words it should be killer for those of us that do.

But, Ron brought up the idea of doing more shows with the LTW crew. I'm all for it if it's more organized. With almost every sentence that Bermas and Avery uttered, I said to myself, "I can do a half-hour on that, easily." And then the subject would melt away like a snowflake. So frustrating. SO frustrating. It's like playing a sport and giving 100% effort, but only participating in 1% of the game. Not even 1%. It's like homeopathic debating. No doubt that the frustration is felt on both sides, though.
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Remember that it only takes a few solid punches to defeat them. They have a harder task trying to convince people to believe in the CT. If they get in 30 nutty things and you convincingly debunk 5 of them, you've killed them.
 
In some ways I think this format can benefit debunkers, but you have to approach it in an odd way.

The tiny details are what the CTers focus on. It's their strong point (as far as that goes). Sure, it's also easy to debunk, because all their facts are wrong, but you end up chasing an almost endless stream of tiny incorrect details.

The CTer weakness is in the bigger picture. By not going into details, by stepping back and looking at the broader picture, every single CT argument collapses into its own footprint at freefall speed. And it fails in a way a layman can understand.

The thing to point out, is that the details the CTers are obsessed over are actually meaningless.

So AA77 performed a crazy maneouver. So it flew north of the Citgo. so Mineta's testimony is right.

So what? None of that actually MEANS anything. None of it actually supports their CT. When you draw them out, when you force them to connect their little precious details into the "bigger picture", THAT is when their complete insanity becomes so apparant.

You don't want the general public watching us arguing over the minute details. You want them hearing about starwars death rays and faked phone calls and mini nukes and planted witnesses and buildings constructed with C4 in them.

THAT is the best way to defeat a CTer in this format.

IMHO as always...

-Gumboot
 
I dunno about you guys, but this was the first thing I checked on the internet today :)
 
By the way, I was teasing about there being a huge surprise. Those of you who didn't click on the spoiler have more patience than me!

One bit of news: according to the LTW guys, David Ray Griffin will have a "debunking the debunkers" book out soon.
 
Gravy said:
One bit of news: according to the LTW guys, David Ray Griffin will have a "debunking the debunkers" book out soon.
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Will it show that he proves the debunkers wrong just like he proves the existence of god?
 
Debunking the Debunkers should be interesting. Then someone just needs to counter the book with something like..."Debunking the debunking debunkers" if that makes sense.
 
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