This is the thread that may very well change the way you look at 9/11 FOREVER!

[einsteen]

I know nothing about thermite and I know nothing about cutter charges. I was asking a question...

 

[28th Kingdom]

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

I know you'll discredit the source...but just read what they have to say about Jones' testing.

 

[apathoid]

I know you all think Prof. Jones is a loon, but he claims that they have samples of this black gook seen on the column below:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2271/thermiteut7.jpg

And, he said after thorough analysis...all of the traces that should be there from a therma/ite reaction are THERE. Say what you want about Prof. Jones, but you can't deny his credentials.

Jones said they got the samples from memorial parks to 9/11 that have some of the scrap metal from the buildings.

EDIT: Why would workers cut (with a torch) that core column at a perfect angle instead of horizontally? I already explained why THEY would use therma/ite to cut the columns at an angle...what do you have?

He found individual materials that are used in Thermite as a mixture, not expended slag. Furthermore the materials he found are common in buildings(barium, aluminum, sulfur). Try again.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

I know nothing about thermite and I know nothing about cutter charges. I was asking a question...

im glad you can admit that

thermite is essentially a liquid while its burning, and it drips down, thats about all it does, it wont produce a straight cut and certainly not one at a nice 45 degree angle

a cutter charge, presuably an RDX shaped charge, is an explosive that shoots a wedge of metal through a steel column, it does not contain thermite and i really dont see how (or why) it could be made to utilize thermite, it would also not leave any slag as it doesnt melt the metal, it just cuts it


now that i think about it, if that beam was cut with a thermal lance by a cleanup worker it could produce a residue similar to thermite (iron and aluminum)

 

[apathoid]

Oh, the angle cut. It takes less time and acetylene fuel by making an angle cut. The molten slag flows downward and preheats the steel before the torch does, making it easier to cut the beam.

 

[maccy]

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

I know you'll discredit the source...but just read what they have to say about Jones' testing.

Why should we believe him?

It all sounds very unlikely to me.

Why hasn't he published in an established peer-reviewed journal?

Why hasn't he persuaded a science correspondent of a TV station or a newspaper to carry his story?

Why would anybody use thermite for the very first time to demolish three buildings all of which are larger than the largest building ever demolished using explosives?

 

[28th Kingdom]

He's a physicist, involved in dodgy cold fusion research and suspended from teaching before being forced to retire early, because of the lack of validity of his 9/11 work.

Lord help us...DON'T YOU SEE! That's WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STAND UP AGAINST THE SYSTEM! THIS JUST LENDS CREDIBILITY TO JONES CASE...OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL ACTUALLY take a stance against the establishment.

JONES is the COWORKER WHO REPORTED THE BOSS TO THE POLICE. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH? What motivation does JONES, who is a DECORATED SCHOLAR, PHYSICIST AND RESEARCHER...have to GAIN FROM MAKING UP HIS SCIENTIFIC CLAIMS? NOTHING. HE ONLY STANDS TO LOSE FROM THIS...and that is why he is so unbelievably noble in his outspokenness.

 

[maccy]

I know nothing about thermite and I know nothing about cutter charges. I was asking a question...

im glad you can admit that

thermite is essentially a liquid while its burning, and it drips down, thats about all it does, it wont produce a straight cut and certainly not one at a nice 45 degree angle

a cutter charge, presuably an RDX shaped charge, is an explosive that shoots a wedge of metal through a steel column, it does not contain thermite and i really dont see how (or why) it could be made to utilize thermite, it would also not leave any slag as it doesnt melt the metal, it just cuts it


now that i think about it, if that beam was cut with a thermal lance by a cleanup worker it could produce a residue similar to thermite (iron and aluminum)

This is thermite in action:



Thermite has never been used in Controlled Demolitions.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Lord help us...DON'T YOU SEE! That's WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STAND UP AGAINST THE SYSTEM! THIS JUST LENDS CREDIBILITY TO JONES CASE...OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL ACTUALLY take a stance against the establishment.

JONES is the COWORKER WHO REPORTED THE BOSS TO THE POLICE. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH? What motivation does JONES, who is a DECORATED SCHOLAR, PHYSICIST AND RESEARCHER...have to GAIN FROM MAKING UP HIS SCIENTIFIC CLAIMS? NOTHING. HE ONLY STANDS TO LOSE FROM THIS...and that is why he is so unbelievably noble in his outspokenness.

ok, lets try a hypothetical scenario for you, lets say jones is wrong, hes promoting crazy theories based on shoddy research and doing it all in the name of the university that employs him, this is causing both him and the university to come under a great deal of criticism

if you were the head of the university, what would you do?

 

[maccy]

Lord help us...DON'T YOU SEE! That's WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STAND UP AGAINST THE SYSTEM! THIS JUST LENDS CREDIBILITY TO JONES CASE...OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL ACTUALLY take a stance against the establishment.

JONES is the COWORKER WHO REPORTED THE BOSS TO THE POLICE. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH? What motivation does JONES, who is a DECORATED SCHOLAR, PHYSICIST AND RESEARCHER...have to GAIN FROM MAKING UP HIS SCIENTIFIC CLAIMS? NOTHING. HE ONLY STANDS TO LOSE FROM THIS...and that is why he is so unbelievably noble in his outspokenness.

Alternatively he is so deluded that he had no idea that his flight from rationality and science would cost him his job. He could quite simply have been removed from his post for practicing embarrassingly bad science. I believe he was. The only way he can vindicated is by submitting his work for peer review, which he doesn't do. I can only conclude that he is a charlatan.

 

[apathoid]

Lord help us...DON'T YOU SEE! That's WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STAND UP AGAINST THE SYSTEM! THIS JUST LENDS CREDIBILITY TO JONES CASE...OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WILL ACTUALLY take a stance against the establishment.

JONES is the COWORKER WHO REPORTED THE BOSS TO THE POLICE. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TELL THE TRUTH? What motivation does JONES, who is a DECORATED SCHOLAR, PHYSICIST AND RESEARCHER...have to GAIN FROM MAKING UP HIS SCIENTIFIC CLAIMS? NOTHING. HE ONLY STANDS TO LOSE FROM THIS...and that is why he is so unbelievably noble in his outspokenness.

Look at it from our perspective. Imagine for a moment that 9/11 went down more or less as the gummint says it did. Wouldn't it be expected of a well-respected university to uphold their fine academic tradition by canning some yahoo that was tarnishing the schools image?

ETA: Darn, beaten by default. Great minds think alike

 

[uk_dave]

He also believes that Jesus walked amongst the mayan based upon his research into archealogical artefacts.

Do you support him in that hypothesis also, 28k?

If not, how can he be so wrong about that, and yet so right about termites?

 

[28th Kingdom]

This is thermite in action:



Thermite has never been used in Controlled Demolitions.

Um, I made a very good point about...why the twin tower demolitions looked different than the WTC 7 demolition...and that's BECAUSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS UNIQUE CORE COLUMNS! I said that I believe therma/ite was used to cut the core columns...AND THAT explosives were used to blow out the floors and walls.

HAS ANOTHER BUILDING EVER BEEN CD'd THAT HAD CORE COLUMNS?!!? UM, NO...BECAUSE NO OTHER BUILDINGS HAVE EVER HAD CORE COLUMNS LIKE THE TWIN TOWERS. Is it coming together now?

 

[maccy]

Um, I made a very good point about...why the twin tower demolitions looked different than the WTC 7 demolition...and that's BECAUSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS UNIQUE CORE COLUMNS! I said that I believe therma/ite was used to cut the core columns...AND THAT explosives were used to blow out the floors and walls.

HAS ANOTHER BUILDING EVER BEEN CD'd THAT HAD CORE COLUMNS?!!? UM, NO...BECAUSE NO OTHER BUILDINGS HAVE EVER HAD CORE COLUMNS LIKE THE TWIN TOWERS. Is it coming together now?

Doesn't this make it a stupid risky untested plan to kill nearly 3,000 people?

Again, how much thermite do you estimate was needed? And how was it packed and detonated?

 

[Timble]

Um, I made a very good point about...why the twin tower demolitions looked different than the WTC 7 demolition...and that's BECAUSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS UNIQUE CORE COLUMNS! I said that I believe therma/ite was used to cut the core columns...AND THAT explosives were used to blow out the floors and walls.

HAS ANOTHER BUILDING EVER BEEN CD'd THAT HAD CORE COLUMNS?!!? UM, NO...BECAUSE NO OTHER BUILDINGS HAVE EVER HAD CORE COLUMNS LIKE THE TWIN TOWERS. Is it coming together now?

Since you've failed to demonstrate that you know anything about thermite, beyond the chemistry department party tricks shown on YouTube, and Dr Jones' dodgy conclusion based on materials that are plentiful in buildings; since you've not demonstated how thermite can be used to cut vertical members; and since your proof depends on what you think something which you've never actually seen looks like; NO.

 

[28th Kingdom]

What evidence do any of you have that Jones' research is SHODDY? Pure assumptions. You are basing that notion solely on the fact that...if whatever he (Jones) says differs from the NIST...than it is considered shoddy. That is a completely mindless logic. You are basically debunking yourselves with this type of thinking...because, on one hand you say, well if it's true (Scientific evidence of therma/ite - Inside Job) than why hasn't anyone come out to the media and tried to show the evidence...WELL THEY HAVE...but they get dismissed. SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING doesn't echo the NIST Report. Don't you see the paradoxical situation you are creating with your beliefs?

The university was probably forced to let him go...pressured from powers that grant the college LOTS OF MONEY!

 

[Mashuna]

EDIT: Why would workers cut (with a torch) that core column at a perfect angle instead of horizontally? I already explained why THEY would use therma/ite to cut the columns at an angle...what do you have?

I know it's probably a waste of time to try and keep you to a single point, but I'll give it a go.

Would you, 28th Kingdom, agree that apathoid has answered this question,

Oh, the angle cut. It takes less time and acetylene fuel by making an angle cut. The molten slag flows downward and preheats the steel before the torch does, making it easier to cut the beam.

Would you also agree that your explanation, the use of thermite/mate/mites would not give the observed results, as explained by defaultdotxbe,

thermite is essentially a liquid while its burning, and it drips down, thats about all it does, it wont produce a straight cut and certainly not one at a nice 45 degree angle

If not, what parts of the above explanations do you disagree with, and why?

 

[Timble]

Sorry, double post

 

[maccy]

What evidence do any of you have that Jones' research is SHODDY? Pure assumptions. You are basely that notion solely on the fact that...if whatever he (Jones) says differs from the NIST...than it is considered shoddy. That is a completely mindless logic. You are basically debunking yourselves with this type of thinking...because, on one hand you say, well if it's true (Theory of therma/ite - Inside Job) than why hasn't anyone come out to the media and tried to show the evidence...WELL THEY HAVE...but they get dismissed. SOLELY ON THE FACT THAT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING doesn't echo the NIST Report. Don't you see the paradoxical situation you are creating with your believes?

The university was probably forced to let him go...pressured from powers that grant the college LOTS OF MONEY!

1, he doesn't demonstrate the provenance of his steel sample

2. he doesn't take into account the possibility of molten aluminium (ever Judy Wood managed to debunk him on this one).

3. the sulpher he says indicates thermite could easily have come from gypsum wallboard and/or diesel.

4. he hasn't found any other compounds that would definitely indicate thermite

5. he doesn't have a explanation for how the thermite could cut a vertical steel column

6. he doesn't explain how the thermite could be out into the buildings, could survive fires for an hour or an hour and a half (and for several hours in WTC7) and be detonated to cause a collapse that progressed from the impact point downwards.

7. he hasn't subjected his work to meaningful peer review or published it in an established journal

 

[uk_dave]

And don't forget that (apparently) in order for a building to collapse the termites would have to be working all the way down while the collapse is in progress..... because initiating the collapse via structural damage from termites is not enough to keep the collapse progressing.

Or is it? hmmmmmmm