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Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

The problem here is the use of the word "object."

Object all you like. No one can stop your objections, nor should they. Voice them as loudly and as often as you want.

However.

You knew there was going to be a "however." ;)

Actual change is not brought about by objections alone. Change is a verb. It requires action. To change that to which you object requires entering a formal process, and the outcome will not be based solely on your objections.

But you can object all you want. It's a free country.
 
Oddly enough, I'm re-reading a book I had to buy for a college class that contains the 16th century version of this sort of debate. Luther wrote and published, Erasmus responded (IMHO with common sense, wit, and erudition on his side) and Luther responded right back (haven't gotten there yet, but zeal and grace are part of his picture).

Just in case anyone else was interested. The thing I find interesting is that these guys were more or less civilized and were having a debate, yet very soon the political situation led to wars that killed many thousands. Erasmus is very gracious, he does make some sarcastic comments, but doesn't go to "war" personally. He's always rather humble when he points out some particular interpretation of Luther's that he disagrees with.

Erasmus does lean on the "appeal to authority" and that could be a problem. He's reading the original Greek testaments, etc., and translating them. He doesn't appear to like the hair-splitting of the Scholastics although he doesn't dismiss the wisdom of the Apostles, Synods, Doctors of the Church... his view is right pragmatic, if that doesn't seem like too large a leap.
 
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slingblade said:
The problem here is the use of the word "object."

Object all you like. No one can stop your objections, nor should they. Voice them as loudly and as often as you want.

However.

You knew there was going to be a "however." ;)

Actual change is not brought about by objections alone. Change is a verb. It requires action. To change that to which you object requires entering a formal process, and the outcome will not be based solely on your objections.

But you can object all you want. It's a free country.
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And I can enverbiate my 'objection'. Like I said total and complete authority. I am in no way compelled to send my children to public school.

Bpscooter, in that time people would sign a letter

"Your most humble and obediant servant",
Canadian Malcontent

It was the style.
 
drkitten said:
Okay. Please clarify.

Why do I need your permission? Why should you "permit" me to teach anything whatsoever? Or more accurately, why should I care if I lack your permission?

You don't have the authority to deny me. Not only am I not responsible to you for the content of my teaching -- but, at least in the United States (which is where this controversy is really happening) you are also barred by law from influencing the content of my teaching for religious reasons, no matter how much of a majority you have.

If you are a single lone wing-nut, I have no responsibility to you.

If you are a representative of a large group of wingnuts, I still have no responsibility to you.

I will tell your kids, literally, whatever the scientific consensus tells me. And you have no authority even to object.

If you need clarification, please ask.
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Sooooooo I DO have authority to object and I DO have authority to provide my children with education of my choosing.
Now if admit you were entirely wrong then you will appear to be a reasonable person.
The condesencion and far overeaching of 'authority' that you presume to here is exactly what rubs the broader community the wrong way.
NOBODY likes that crap or wants to tolerate it, people will support the 'Wahhabi school for future martyrs' if they are opposing the type of attitude that is so well represented in your post.
 
The Atheist said:
He sounds like a good stick. He loves humans sooooooooo much that he nailed his only child - in all the billennia of god, space, time and creation, his ONLY child - to a telephone pole? Ok, I'll buy that. Pity he's a child-murderer; bit of a paradox, Clingy? Luckily, I take it this bloke's only in the 'B' team?
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I would just qualify Darth Rotor's reply by saying Jesus and the Father are not the same but can both be called God, so indeed, God was freely giving up his own life! But this very basic point does seem to evade many, theists and atheists!
 
Among the christians here we have a diverse community of original thinkers,whose only commonality seems to be faith in God.
Among the posting atheists however there is nought but the continued repetition of the same lame contentions (6 days means 144 of our hours etc.) and when at loss (which is more often than not) the resorting to shouting and name-calling.
Why is it that the 'enlightened' atheist posters are single-minded (as agroup!) and juvenile? Is that not what you are desperate to demonstrate yourselves as not being? Is it not your favorite accusation against Christians?
 
Canadian Malcontent said:
Among the christians here we have a diverse community of original thinkers,whose only commonality seems to be faith in God.
Among the posting atheists however there is nought but the continued repetition of the same lame contentions (6 days means 144 of our hours etc.) and when at loss (which is more often than not) the resorting to shouting and name-calling.
Why is it that the 'enlightened' atheist posters are single-minded (as agroup!) and juvenile? Is that not what you are desperate to demonstrate yourselves as not being? Is it not your favorite accusation against Christians?
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Remind me again who went off on the drunken rants?
 
Canadian Malcontent said:
Among the christians here we have a diverse community of original thinkers,whose only commonality seems to be faith in God.
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Do they all agree on the nature of God? If not, then it would seem that that their commonality is that they all believe in something supernatural that they call "God".

Canadian Malcontent said:
Among the posting atheists however there is nought but the continued repetition of the same lame contentions (6 days means 144 of our hours etc.)...
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You think that keeping consistant definitions is a lame contention? Sure, God is real if I am allowed to define "real" as "something I believe in".

Canadian Malcontent said:
...and when at loss (which is more often than not) the resorting to shouting and name-calling.
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LOL. Now that is hilariously ironic, coming from one who has once been suspended for his rudeness and only two days ago engaged in another drunken bout of insults. (But you did apologize, and that is good.)

Still, when one engages in a certain behavior, is it "name-calling" to apply the proper label to that behavior?

Canadian Malcontent said:
Why is it that the 'enlightened' atheist posters are single-minded (as agroup!) and juvenile?
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Single-minded and juvenile? Sounds suspiciously like "name-calling" to me. Since the topic is religion, I would say that you would expect these threads to dwell disproportionately on that theme. That's why the topics have names, you know. But it is true, people sometimes engage in behavior that is juvenile, like shouting matches. I don't believe that sort of behavior on these boards is limited to atheists. I think I can show examples.

Canadian Malcontent said:
Is that not what you are desperate to demonstrate yourselves as not being? Is it not your favorite accusation against Christians?
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If you attack someone, they will respond. Why does this surprise you? Do you think atheists should be emotionless?
 
Canadian Malcontent said:
Among the christians here we have a diverse community of original thinkers,whose only commonality seems to be faith in God.
Among the posting atheists however there is nought but the continued repetition of the same lame contentions (6 days means 144 of our hours etc.) and when at loss (which is more often than not) the resorting to shouting and name-calling.
Why is it that the 'enlightened' atheist posters are single-minded (as agroup!) and juvenile? Is that not what you are desperate to demonstrate yourselves as not being? Is it not your favorite accusation against Christians?
Click to expand...

So, that's it, eh? That's all there is to you? Intoxicant-fueled rants and rambles, mendacity, and button-pushing?

That's really all you've got?
 
Canadian Malcontent

Excuse me, name calling.

(6 days means 144 of our hours etc.) So, now religious people can call 6 days any length of hours they want, so it can fit any need to make an idea of a so-called god work into what is now known.

So, you don’t see a problem in fixing truths that have be learned to so the bible can still work the way religious people want the universe and their god to be, and not be as it really is.

The big problem with believing in a god is that you have to use blind faith to make it work as the world changes and with that you also have to become blind to many other things. You have to use magical thinking and with magical thinking all kinds of other problems start. Because when something doesn’t fix your minds-eye of the world and your so-called god you have to lie about facts and where does the lying end. There are people of faith that are even now trying to change PI so that it is 3 and not 3.1415926…… so it fits their idea of the bible.

Lying is a very dangerous and slippery slop my friend and that is what we have a big problem with.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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Paulhoff said:
There are people of faith that are even now trying to change PI so that it is 3 and not 3.1415926…… so it fits their idea of the bible.
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Actually that bit is an urban legend.

Paulhoff said:
Lying is a very dangerous and slippery slop my friend and that is what we have a big problem with.
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Yes, slippery slop is very dangerous. I much prefer my slop to be firm and chunky.:p
 
Canadian Malcontent
With repect to my childrens education I have absolute and total authority and options to exercise the same.
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No you do not. Even home schooled children have to pass standardized tests. If they do not pass, the state (at least TN, AL and KY) will forcibly send your children to public school or take other drastic measures.

Mr Clingford
I would just qualify Darth Rotor's reply by saying Jesus and the Father are not the same but can both be called God, so indeed, God was freely giving up his own life! But this very basic point does seem to evade many, theists and atheists!
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God wasn’t really giving up anything. God already knew the outcome and even came back from the dead, not much sacrifice. The saying should be: god so loved the world that he loaded his (son’s) life for a couple of days…

Ossai
 
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Ossai said:
God wasn’t really giving up anything.
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That makes sense if you back away from Triune model and break the Trinity into three entities. I've seen it discussed as "God making a point in a graphic way." (Back to the "2 x 4" bit I mentioned to Atheist earlier.)

Now, back to bumper stickers.

"Who does your nails?" (With a picture of Jesus/cross to the right of the words.)

Mind you, I haven't seen it, but it would be a bumper sticker that fits with the current emphasis on "edgy" message content.

DR
 
You all have seen this “Warning: in case of rapture this car will be vacant” the way they drive in Florida I think they already have.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Mr Clingford said:
I would just qualify Darth Rotor's reply by saying Jesus and the Father are not the same but can both be called God, so indeed, God was freely giving up his own life! But this very basic point does seem to evade many, theists and atheists!
Click to expand...
Ossai beat me to it!

Like betting on a rigged race - little challenge involved.
 
Mr Clingford said:
I would just qualify Darth Rotor's reply by saying Jesus and the Father are not the same but can both be called God, so indeed, God was freely giving up his own life! But this very basic point does seem to evade many, theists and atheists!
Click to expand...
Plese tell me how a god dies. This does not evade atheist at all.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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