Yeah, I realized that after I posted. Bah.
Double Tree Video Released?
- Thread starter JAStewart
- Start date
Yeah, I realized that after I posted. Bah.
Are you serious? Do you hAve any idea what you're talking about, or do you just make it up as you go along??? Flavor flav has probably never uttered a political statement in his public life (unless Chuck D cleared it first). You're thinking of Professor Griff, who did make some anti-semitic comments and then bowed out of the group. Or are you just holding Flavor flav "guilt by association?"
The evidence is already in on 77. On 9/11 all the evidence was in. Witnesses and physical evidence was there. DNA confirmed the dead.
So what do you have to prove there is something more? What?
Just a feeling?
Name some stuff, quantify your stuff.
Gumboot, you make some very good points and present them very well. While I do disagree and I guess I fall into a "LIHOP" stance (I HATE these acronyms as much as I hate liberal and conservative), the problem I have is that the more you dig, the more you find that the government was well aware of most of these guys for some time before 9/11. This was mostly done by the FBI, and they don't usually track people unless they have a good reason (or they post on the Loose Change board...just kidding).
Even so, if our government is so...disorderly... Ive always wondered how it was that they were unable to stop the attacks once they were underway, but had almost all commercial aircraft was grounded or heading for ground by mid-morning. That's thousands of flights the FAA would have to redirect, and it was done in a very quick fashion, so they clearly can coordinate. It's also something that had NEVER been done in the history of air travel in America. So they seemed quite capable of working on the fly in this case.
However, I will not dispute claims of American arrogance, as they are plentiful. But I think you're also forgetting that certain protocols exist for dealing with one hijacked jet, much less four over an almost 2 hour period.
This isnt necessarily directed at you, but no one has answered my post form earlier. So, IS ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH THE BOJINKA PLOT?
What are you talking about? I thought I said pretty plainly that I DO NOT believe that anything other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
Wasn't the bojinka plot the forerunner of the recent threat against transatlantic flights?
If so, how does this relate to 9/11?
A massive plot to destroy aircraft in flight is a different scenario to one in which planes are hijacked.
In a hijack situation pre 911, the assumed course of events would include a landing somewhere either to re-fuel and an onward flight, or a negotiation. If you were a passenger on a flight in such a circumstance all you would care about would be getting back on to the ground.
Likewise, the authorities are not going to shoot down a plane which they assume is going to be forced to land somewhere.
Flying planes into buildings was sufficiently new for it to take everyone by surprise.
If so, how does this relate to 9/11?
A massive plot to destroy aircraft in flight is a different scenario to one in which planes are hijacked.
In a hijack situation pre 911, the assumed course of events would include a landing somewhere either to re-fuel and an onward flight, or a negotiation. If you were a passenger on a flight in such a circumstance all you would care about would be getting back on to the ground.
Likewise, the authorities are not going to shoot down a plane which they assume is going to be forced to land somewhere.
Flying planes into buildings was sufficiently new for it to take everyone by surprise.
Where is the plane on the video S4S. You have junk now, just more lies that you will try to push? Too bad your lies are gone now!
By the way it has been 5 years and if you had something you will be in jail for obstruction. So you ignore all the real evidence and manufacture your own. This means you are a CT guy for 9/11 lies. You are the real thing.
I appreciate your points, but let me use your question to clarify things a little bit.
My assumption (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that the majority of people here accept the narrative of the 9/11 Commission report. That narrative essentially said that 9/11 took place due to a failure of planning and imagination. That would be failing at your job... or incompetence. I, however, do not believe 9/11 was the result of mere incometence all around. But if it was, as the Commission report indirectly said, then should someone have been held accountable?
Did your plane have propellers or jets? Did you plane flyover on the 10th or was it the 9th?
Do you think it could be the C-130 checking the damage for ATC?
Do you always mess up and fall for this junk?
Hierosis,
In a bygone age of political responsibility very likely someone would have been held responsible or been honourable enough to fall on their own sword.
But this is the 21st century and politicians must never be seen to be wrong.
I would be interested to know of the resignations or sackings which followed events such as pearl harbour, the fall of saigon and the withdrawal from somalia.
On the other hand perhaps we live in a time where it is considered more constructive to put right the flaws in the system without necessarily engaging in a witch hunt in the process.
In a bygone age of political responsibility very likely someone would have been held responsible or been honourable enough to fall on their own sword.
But this is the 21st century and politicians must never be seen to be wrong.
I would be interested to know of the resignations or sackings which followed events such as pearl harbour, the fall of saigon and the withdrawal from somalia.
On the other hand perhaps we live in a time where it is considered more constructive to put right the flaws in the system without necessarily engaging in a witch hunt in the process.
You're only half right. Bokinka called for planes to explode OVER major cities, but also for planes to be flown into major landmarks. It does not relate directly to the events of 9/11, but it does shoot down the idea that no one could have imagined people flying planes into builings. The military has wargammed the scenario since the they broke up the Bojinka plot. If they were able to create a war game based on the premise, they certainly had no problem imagining it actually happening.
(side note - please do not confuse my reference to war games as anything related to war games taking place ON 9/11, because most of the people with questions get that one wrong.)
If you have a car hit you, in a scam, today it is a failure of imagination and planning!
When you burn yourself cooking; failure of imagination and planning!
Good old catch all, failure of planning and imagination!
Oh, be careful you boss will pull this on you! Better yet a peer wanting to dump your chances at beating him to the Ring! Look old H failed to plan and have imagination when he messed up that one! Good old caught you!
Do you think the commission was poking at everyone else. Where was congress, where were we, where was everyone.
You will have to share this with everyone; failed to plan and have an imagination. I have to join them, never saw them cutting my throat to take my plane from me, I was too busy flying the jet!
So why did we fail to make sure we were covered. I like JFK "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country!"
Got any ideas to help the next surprise not be one!?
That's the biggest bunch of bunk I've ever heard. We should just accept that in the 21st Century our leaders are not held accountable, and instead work with them to fix their mistakes? Please.
The Fall of Saigon? Do you mean the Vietnam war as a whole or this particular battle? Because we weren't there at that point.
In Somalia, Clinton was SAVAGED by the press and even his own party in congress. Granted, that's not enough in my opinion, but this was a military operation that was poorly planned. Clinton took a lot of heat for that and it was one of the reasons he rarely sent troops anywhere after that (Bosnia being the exception, but even then people raked him over the coals for Somalia and how this would be a repeat."
Finally, regarding Pearl Harbor, I'm guessing you've never read much about it have you? Following Pearl Harbor (like immediately, not two years later) the Roberts Commission was formed to investigate what happened. Their investigation cited Pearl Harbor commanders Admiral Husband Kimmel and General Walter C. Short for deriliction of duty. Both gentlemen appealed and were later able to establish that they were not given the proper information from higher up in the military command, which would lead directly to the Secretary of War. But they were paraded out (like Lyndie England at Abu Graib) as the guys who"dropped the ball" and took the walk of shame...
Yes! Keep people with your mentality FAR away from government.
Oops too late. We need guys like you who know everything!
sign up, we need people who know what is going to happen before it happens, some one like you?!
You have a point; one I've considered in light of the De Menezes shooting here in Britain, i.e. how can no-one be to blame for the death of an innocent man? Failings were identified in various aspects of the overall operation and the execution of the tactical side of things, yet AFAIK, no-one has "copped it"; not the officers involved (rightly so IMO), and no-one in the chain of command (wrongly IMO). The buck should stop somewhere. However, the difference is that the UK authorities were directly responsible for De Menezes' death. If the US gov is not directly responsible for 9/11, the need to root out and eliminate the culpable is not as great.
I think it's a valid question - who should be held responsible, and how? But it does not lend any weight to any CT having taken place.
I think it's a valid question - who should be held responsible, and how? But it does not lend any weight to any CT having taken place.
Hierosis,
I was not defending a lack of accountability, merely pointing out that it seems to be the way of the world these days.
I remember reading a long time ago about a UK government minister who resigned over something his predecessor had done. This was in the 50's or 60's, but these days it is all political expediency.
It is interesting that your pearl harbour comment includes that the men were able to establish that the fault lay higher up in the chain of command, and yet was any action then taken against those who were responsible? The president certainly didn't take a fall over it.
I was not defending a lack of accountability, merely pointing out that it seems to be the way of the world these days.
I remember reading a long time ago about a UK government minister who resigned over something his predecessor had done. This was in the 50's or 60's, but these days it is all political expediency.
It is interesting that your pearl harbour comment includes that the men were able to establish that the fault lay higher up in the chain of command, and yet was any action then taken against those who were responsible? The president certainly didn't take a fall over it.
Kryptos
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 409
Yes, today I am familiar with Bojinka.
Back on 9/11/2001, I had never heard of it.
I'm sure the government has HUGE volumes of intelligence spread across the many disjointed agencies; they are also shorthanded when it comes to translators, so I'm sure there was a HUGE volume of intelligence and communications intercepts in Arabic that went untranslated until after 9/11. It's an immense challenge to sort through the massive volume of information, work within the HUGE bureaucracy, across agencies, and with legal restrictions in place on 9/11 barring criminal investigators [e.g. the FBI] and intelligence officials from sharing information.
And, yes I've read Without Precedent.
Kean and Hamilton talk about frustrations in dealing with FAA and NORAD officials, who were less than forthcoming, ultimately leading the commission to subpoena those agencies for documents. Also, the testimony of FAA and NORAD officials as to timing of their response was misleading, possibly constituting obstruction if they were intentionally misleading the commission and Congress.
With a July 2004 deadline, the 9/11 Commission had a time limit, and didn't look further into possible obstruction by officials. The matter was referred to the Inspector Generals of the DOT and DOD, respectively.
Here are the findings of the DOT inspector general, regarding the FAA.
In sum, they found no intent by officials to mislead the commission:
No Intent to Mislead Panel Found In Aviation Officials' 9/11 Errors
And from the DOD inspector general: Report No. 06-INTEL-12
-Kate