Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[LAL]

Fudd did I forget to mention that that was for
Historically you are correct..the PNW is indeed Bigfeet Country..but recently it seems that the trend seems to show the Eastern Bigfeet is being seen just as much as the PNW version.

That's problematic wouldn't you say?

John Green collected a couple of thousand reports years before the BFRO. He's said the eastern reports are just as credible as the western reports. The Elkins Creek, Ga., cast was one Chilcutt found compelling. A friend of mine gleaned about 50 reports from NC from various groups. None are very recent, and one is a news story from 1793. A report the BFRO doesn't have, is from Sept. 27, 2006 from WNC, about 2 hours from where I live. A gal I work with grew up with stories in around Bryson City, NC. (I added up national park, national forest and wildreness areas in WNC and came up with over 2 million acres. There are areas that are very similar to western Oregon and Washington. In fact, one gets more rainfall on average that the west slope of the Cascades outside of the Olympics.)

Green also noted there are areas in the east that had evidently had activity in early settler days, then none for decades, then activity again. NC forests were logged extensively and are now being allowed to grow back, so there is plenty of habitat, mostly undisturbed by man. The eastern variety may be making a comeback as mountain lions seem to be doing (despite official identification of them as "pets" or misidentifications).

Nevertheless, the whole state of NC (where I live now) only has about as many total reports as the BFRO has for Skamania County, Washington (where I used to live- and I know the BFRO doesn't have them all).

 

[LAL]

I think you may be illustrating why many in civilized areas don't have a clue about this phenomenon. You just can't relate.

Like the poster who said to just stand at the base of a mountain and if something moved you'd see it?

I invested in a couple of atlases and Topo 6. I also have a free Google Earth that actually works with dial-up. I was able to "investigate" a report sent to me from my armchair before I take a trip out there. I found the area, while roaded, was in evergreen and mixed forest and connected to wilderness and primitive areas through swamps and forested avenues between farmlands. There have been quite a few reports of tracks crossing fields and many are of the animals crossing roads at night.

Even here in "civilized" NC, you need plenty of gas, provisions, a good map, hiking boots and a work schedule that permits a lot of time off. There are a few investigators, two formerly with the BFRO, in NC, but no one has the time to dash off on a moment's notice to follow up on every report.

Bryne gave up on "hot pursuit" in Oregon because by the time they could get there the animal was long gone and the area trampled by the curious. He and his team tried feeding data into the computers to try to find migration routes, or any pattern to show where the team should set up. They found none.

As he said, it's like looking for a moving needle in a haystack.

 

[LAL]

BTW, a proponent was banned from BFF Thanksgiving Day, another in September. They're an "even handed lot".

 

[Huntster]

...Historically you are correct..the PNW is indeed Bigfeet Country..but recently it seems that the trend seems to show the Eastern Bigfeet is being seen just as much as the PNW version.

That's problematic wouldn't you say?

Again, not if you read and understand Glickman.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
I think you may be illustrating why many in civilized areas don't have a clue about this phenomenon. You just can't relate.

Like the poster who said to just stand at the base of a mountain and if something moved you'd see it?

I invested in a couple of atlases and Topo 6. I also have a free Google Earth that actually works with dial-up. I was able to "investigate" a report sent to me from my armchair before I take a trip out there. I found the area, while roaded, was in evergreen and mixed forest and connected to wilderness and primitive areas through swamps and forested avenues between farmlands. There have been quite a few reports of tracks crossing fields and many are of the animals crossing roads at night.

Even here in "civilized" NC, you need plenty of gas, provisions, a good map, hiking boots and a work schedule that permits a lot of time off. There are a few investigators, two formerly with the BFRO, in NC, but no one has the time to dash off on a moment's notice to follow up on every report.

Yup. Trying to catch a creature that is clearly very rare, may very well be most active at night, in a wilderness area (even in a state that is fairly populous), in the woods, and on the move is a huge job. When very few people are trying to do so, they have to make a living like everybody else, they are of limited resources, it's no wonder "discovery" hasn't yet occurred.

The United States has a population of 300 million. The vast majority live in cities, and though most have heard of sasquatch because of our mass media abilities, virtually none of them actually go looking to find one. And if they did, they would be poorly equiped to "catch" one.

Canada, physically larger than the U.S., has fewer residents than the state of California.

As he said, it's like looking for a moving needle in a haystack.

Yup. Very few needles, moving regularly, and it's a damned big haystack.

 

[Huntster]

BTW, a proponent was banned from BFF Thanksgiving Day, another in September. They're an "even handed lot".

That also shows how personalities have affected the search for these creatures, even among advocates.

 

[luchog]

If you want to buy the high falutin city boy technology and you don't have the dough yourself...you have to convince someone to give you this cash. Somehow Bigfoot Fan can't seem to pull this off....with all their footprint casts and tales of things that go bump in the woods....hmmm...go figger huh??

And that city boy technology has gotten remarkably cheap in the last few years. A good GPS will cost you about a hundred or two; a good infra-red vision system, maybe five or six. A good video camera with IR and mo-sense capability, maybe a couple grand. What more do you need? Even if you're going with high-end gear, plus DNA testing for any samples you bring back, you're not going to spend more than ten grand at the absolute max. Even with my crappy salary, I could save that much in a couple years if i was really interested in proving the existence of Sasquatch.

And these days Internet nutjobbery; it wouldn't be at all difficult to find a whole crapload of dupes... excuse me... supporters to send you a few bucks each to pay for the cost of the equipment and supplies to outfit yourself to spend five or six months exploring the woods with all this modern technology.

Wonder why no one bothers to do so.

 

[Huntster]

And that city boy technology has gotten remarkably cheap in the last few years. A good GPS will cost you about a hundred or two; a good infra-red vision system, maybe five or six. A good video camera with IR and mo-sense capability, maybe a couple grand. What more do you need?....

1) Good camping gear, unless you think the "weekend warrior" stuff will cut it.
2) Transportation, not only to an area with high frequencies, but within that area.
3) Night vision equipment


Now for the things that money can't buy:

1) Time to devote to such activities
2) Education, knowledge, and/or experience in sasquatch reports, frequencies, etc.
3) Education, knowledge, and/or experience in outdoorsmanship

Now, finally, the things that are going to kill your efforts and investment:

1) Scientific credentials (anything you get will be required to be submitted for "peer review", and if you're not a "peer", you're SOL)
2) Anything short of a corpse or significant body part simply won't do (despite what many on this forum claim; photography ain't gonna cut it; nor will hair, scat, toenails, etc. It's gotta be a corpse or significant body part, or you're wasting your time and money.)

Now, let's see................................what have I left out?.........................

 

[William Parcher]

He ain't Bigfoot. He's my brother.

Patterson Bigfoot film subject has been identified as a human.

After working on the famous footage for nearly ten years, researcher M. K. Davis has identified the subject of the famous film to be completely human. Not a man in a suit, but a human in the wild. "Everything on the film can be explained", says Davis. Using the famous piece of footage, Davis says that he can explain all the unusual features of the subject as that of a human being. Davis says that he expects to produce the evidence soon that will completely explain this mysterious film. "This is not something that I was expecting when I started this project" says Davis. But I was prepared to go where the research took me."

WTF?

Marlon K. Davis has posted in this thread as "primateer". Can we get a comment from this guy on global warming?

 

[LAL]

I was able to go on a "poke-about" last summer. The organizer is a researcher with two years experience with the BFRO before MM went mad. (MM charged $400 a carload for his NC expedition near Hot Springs, NC this year.) He paid for the campsite himself (he thought we'd want the convenience of showers and a campfire). He also paid for a newspaper ad requesting sighting information. He has GPS, but it only worked in high open spots. The trail where there was a possible sighting was in pretty bad shape and I managed to dip my cameras in a cold mountain rivulet while stepping on dry-looking logs. Both are battery op and "go to sleep" when they're not being used; I would have had no time to turn them back on, aim and shoot if something unusual had crossed my path. The only time available was a weekend, and while we had fun sightseeing, it wasn't the most productive of all expeditions.

I did just as well living in a tent in the Columbia Gorge where sightings were almost common; I didn't see anything then either, but it cost me zero in gas.

 

[LAL]

He ain't Bigfoot. He's my brother.



WTF?

I second your WTF. From Coleman:

"The following is M. K.’s release, which he pointed me to:

For_Immediate_Release:

Patterson Bigfoot film subject has been identified as a human.

Famous piece of film footage that is considered to be the number one evidence for the existance [sic] of Bigfoot, has had its subject identified to be a human being.

After working on the famous footage for nearly ten years, researcher M.K.Davis has identified the subject of the famous film to be completely human. Not a man in a suit, but a human in the wild. "Everything on the film can be explained," says Davis. Using the famous piece of footage, Davis says that he can explain all the unusual features of the subject as that of a human being. Davis says that he expects to produce the evidence soon that will completely explain this mysterious film. "This is not something that I was expecting when I started this project" says Davis. ["]But I was prepared to go where the research took me."



I wrote M. K. Davis, and asked him it he was talking about a feral (wild) human? And what exactly was he talking about?



His reply only added only more mysteries and was not too illuminating:

Hello Loren. When I say living in the wild, I do not mean feral, but "out of contact". I know from the film that it is human, and that it manipulates its environment and has a culture of some sort. It is not normal in size, however. It is much larger than the average human. I will explain in due time. M.K.

At the same time, I began receiving, for publication, the following information from Ohio resident "Pat Holdbrook" of Miracle Movie Makers, identifying himself as the Executive Producer of the movie Bigfoot - An Encounter With Reality:

The word is out! Yes we are saying Bigfoot is human, and we think we have proved it. Without M.K. Davis’s hard work on the film, no one would have ever known the truth. You be the judge of it. M.K. Davis did all the good footage of the Patterson film, no matter who has it.

Stanford recently looked at the film that M.K. made, and for what I have been told, they also think it’s a human. M.K. knew that. Everyone said it was an ape or creature or something else. No, it’s a human being of some sort. A very large human at that. It could be one of the oldest races in existence. Clues are in the movie - where we think it came from - and when and how they got here.

You be the judge. Man in a suit - Miocene ape - no way!

Okay, we will all have to be the judge, but this splash seems a little more than a lot of promotion with little substance. Even the website that Holdbrook is sharing and wishing us to point to (http://www.ONESTEPBEYONDREALITY.COM/) is nothing more than concepts and an outline typed on a page. There is nothing there to back up these claims or enhance what is being said.

Frankly, I’m not sure what to make of any of this. A publicity stunt to promote a new movie? An honest reevaluation of the footage by M. K. Davis? A revision of M. K.’s stance based on a decade of frustration?

Has M. K. Davis gone beyond analyzing the footage and is now theorizing wildly about the source of what is there? How does he honestly contend that he knows this "Bigfoot" has a culture from looking at this footage? And why should we consider this any more valid than anyone else’s theory? I look forward to more complete details from Mr. Holdbrook and Mr. Davis."

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/bigfoot-mkhuman/

 

[Correa Neto]

Expect some story with nephilim, neanderthals, giants, meganthropus, etc.

Mythological (biblical sources included) "interpretation", a spice or two of fossil species and a lot of wild speculation...

Are we sure its unexpected?

Or brand new?

And is this "interpretation" much wilder than the "bigfeet = gigantopithecus"?

 

[Mad Hom]

He ain't Bigfoot. He's my brother.



WTF?

Marlon K. Davis has posted in this thread as "primateer". Can we get a comment from this guy on global warming?

I'd just like to third that WTF. What is this guy smoking?? I mean belief in Bigfoot is in itself....kind of kooky,but this gibroney here? Yeah...He's nuttier than a bag of trail mix if you ask me.

LAL posted some stuff that makes it seem like this dingus is promoting a movie or something. I sure hope so because if he's serious...he's definitely giving Beckjord a run for his strait jacket.

 

[Mad Hom]

1) Good camping gear, unless you think the "weekend warrior" stuff will cut it.
2) Transportation, not only to an area with high frequencies, but within that area.
3) Night vision equipment


Now for the things that money can't buy:

1) Time to devote to such activities
2) Education, knowledge, and/or experience in sasquatch reports, frequencies, etc.
3) Education, knowledge, and/or experience in outdoorsmanship

Now, finally, the things that are going to kill your efforts and investment:

1) Scientific credentials (anything you get will be required to be submitted for "peer review", and if you're not a "peer", you're SOL)
2) Anything short of a corpse or significant body part simply won't do (despite what many on this forum claim; photography ain't gonna cut it; nor will hair, scat, toenails, etc. It's gotta be a corpse or significant body part, or you're wasting your time and money.)

Now, let's see................................what have I left out?.........................

Fudd we're talking serious Footers here...not John Q Bigfoot fan. I'm sure there has to be a few guys who meet most of the requirements you mentioned.

Agreed on your corpse take.....somewhat. If a good,non fuzzy,fully zoomed film of a Bigfeet...say snapping an elk's neck....or nursing a baby Bigfeet...ever arose though...I for one would at the very least........become very intrigued in the possibility of Bigfeet rather than.....be embarassed for those who Bleev....like I do now.

 

[Huntster]

Fudd we're talking serious Footers here...not John Q Bigfoot fan. I'm sure there has to be a few guys who meet most of the requirements you mentioned....

Like who?

I can think of Meldrum, Farenbach, and Mionczynski who are qualified to submit evidence for peer-review. Anybody else you can think of who are presently even interested in the phenomenon?

Of the three, how much grant assets have the three recieved? What kind of time do they have to invest? What kind of assets do they have at their disposal for long-term time spent in good possible habitat? What kind of photography equipment do they have at their disposal? What kind of photography experience do they have? What kind of hunting experience do they have? Etc.?

 

[Correa Neto]

Someone involved with wildlife studies without good photographic equipment and experience?

Most of the people who study wildlife have professional gear and know how to use it pretty well. Photographic documentation is an integral part of their work. A biologist working in the wilderness without a cam is almost like a hunter without a rifle. A biologist working in the wilderness that can't handle a cam is almost like a hunter who can't handle a rifle.

And, even in the unlikely these people for some reason have no access to the gear or can't handle it, they could try to attract someone with the gear and the skills. Wildlife photographers, professionals or amateurs.

Of course, if the evidence presented to back the creatures' existence is considered by wildlife photographers as being unreliable...

 

[Huntster]

....Of course, if the evidence presented to back the creatures' existence is considered by wildlife photographers as being unreliable...

.....then they won't go.

The more people, gear, and other assets that are needed, the less chances they will all be brought to bear.

Which is exactly what is happening.

 

[LAL]

Like who?

I can think of Meldrum, Farenbach, and Mionczynski who are qualified to submit evidence for peer-review. Anybody else you can think of who are presently even interested in the phenomenon?

Dr. Daris Swindler, the "giant" in primatology. He and Dr. Meldrum co-authored a paper on the Skookum Cast and submitted it, but it was rejected. Of course he's busy mentoring in his retirement and is in poor physical health, but he certainly has the credentials.

Dr. Esteban Sarmiento was going to devote time after he finished the Bili Ape project. What ever happened to that?

I wonder if most people know those great wildlife photos we're so used to seeing are usually staged.

 

[Mad Hom]

Like who?

I can think of Meldrum, Farenbach, and Mionczynski who are qualified to submit evidence for peer-review. Anybody else you can think of who are presently even interested in the phenomenon?

Of the three, how much grant assets have the three recieved? What kind of time do they have to invest? What kind of assets do they have at their disposal for long-term time spent in good possible habitat? What kind of photography equipment do they have at their disposal? What kind of photography experience do they have? What kind of hunting experience do they have? Etc.?

Fudd I'm not talking strictly about peer review....I'm talking about people qualified to be getting out there and looking for Bigfeet....of those there are many right? Not just guys with letters after their names either but people with enough knowledge to know what they were looking for at least.Also,the gear would not be cost prohibitive...especially if they bought one or two items at a time.

As for time....well as adverse as I am to admit it...you may have a point there. Surely not to many people can afford to take a 6 month hiatus from their day job to go looking for Bigfeetsus. I guess it's up to Moneytaker and his safaris to get the job done than huh?

This...no one is out there looking for it...still smacks of a covenient excuse to me. Tell me this Fuddnik...if people WERE out in the woods looking for H.B of U.S and had been for some time and still there was no proof....would your 95% assuredness that Bigfeets were real be any lower?

 

[Correa Neto]

.....then they won't go.

The more people, gear, and other assets that are needed, the less chances they will all be brought to bear.

Which is exactly what is happening.

No wildlife photographer would let the opportunity to capture such animal on film, video or bits n' bytes. If they considered the "pro" evidence relevant, I guess they would flock at Meldrum's door begging for a opportunity to work together and obtain the first razor sharp bigfoot imagery.

The chances these people would scare animals away are very slim. They are hardened experienced folks, quite often working in very small groups if not alone. Their lack of interest on the subject should raise some red flags.