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Atheist vs. Theist comfort

T'ai Chi

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
11,219
We often hear, as an attack on both, the issue of 'comfort' being discussed in regards to atheism and theism.

There are many variations, but most of the strawmans I hear go something like this:

Atheist strawman: a theist likes the comfort of knowing that he'll live forever

Theist strawman: an atheist likes the comfort of knowing that he has no responsibilities

However, when I talk to atheists and theists, it seems the real situation is a little different. I hear that:

A theist understands that for the universe to have a definite beginning it may imply it has a definite end. At the very least knowing that you are a creation implies that you can be uncreated. This is not too comforting, as people do love living life even if there happens to be an afterlife.

An atheist believes that it is impossible for something to come from nothing, and that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed. From both of these things, they are forced to believe the universe is enternal. This type of eternal existance can be said to give the atheist comfort.

Of course, I don't think the comfort-arguments are good at all. But people use them all the time to hint that if it comforts you, you like it because of the comfort and not because of what is providing the comfort. Like if your bed is comfortable, you just like the comfort it provides and you don't really care about the bed itself.
 
...snip...

A theist understands that for the universe to have a definite beginning it may imply it has a definite end. At the very least knowing that you are a creation implies that you can be uncreated. This is not too comforting, as people do love living life even if there happens to be an afterlife.


...snip...

What type of theist makes this argument? Most theists in the world ie. a third of the world's population beleive there is no end and that they themselves will become eternal.

An atheist believes

...snip...

You are using the wrong word. An atheist is someone who has no belief in a god or gods.
 
An atheist believes that it is impossible for something to come from nothing, and that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed. From both of these things, they are forced to believe the universe is enternal. This type of eternal existance can be said to give the atheist comfort.

You keep using this word, atheist...I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
You keep using this word, atheist...I do not think it means what you think it means.


I've looked in every dictionary I have and also online dictionaries and I can't find one that mentions atheists beleive "it is impossible for something to come from nothing" or "matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed."

E.g. atheistdict
 
An atheist can surely believe. They are people afterall.

They don't belive in god(s) creating the universe, so in their worldview the universe has always existed.
 
An atheist believes that it is impossible for something to come from nothing, and that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed. From both of these things, they are forced to believe the universe is enternal. This type of eternal existance can be said to give the atheist comfort.

An atheist need not believe the universe is eternal. In fact, astrophysicists aren't sure which of the many theorized possible endings to the universe are the most likely. You're conflating atheists with a particular subset of people who've embraced certain theories.
 
You're conflating atheists with a particular subset of people who've embraced certain theories.
Well said, which is sort of like any number of posters here who conflate Christian with "fundy moron Christian loudmouth," which is a particular subset . . . ;)

DR
 
1) Atheists don't believe in god(s) creating the universe.

2) Science, which some atheists tend to believe, tells us that no matter or energy can be created (or destroyed).

So putting 1) and 2) together, atheists believe that the universe was definitely not created.

The universe being here is a fact. So since they believe it is not created, that is the same as saying they believe it has always existed.

Anyone claiming the reasoning is illogical should be able to point out directly where.
 
1) Atheists don't believe in god(s) creating the universe.

2) Science, which some atheists tend to believe,

Which atheists do not "believe" in science??

tells us that no matter or energy can be created (or destroyed).

Hmmm....that's the natural laws. The natural laws that are indisputable. You show me any other natural law, and I'll be inclined to accept that it is up for negotiation.

But not the laws of thermodynamics. If they fail, all else fails.

So putting 1) and 2) together, atheists believe that the universe was definitely not created.

Not by a supernatural entity, no. Why should atheists believe that?

The universe being here is a fact. So since they believe it is not created, that is the same as saying they believe it has always existed.

Rubbish. That is the Young-Earth Creationist in you speaking. Such ignorance... :rolleyes:

Anyone claiming the reasoning is illogical should be able to point out directly where.

It is not up to other people to prove you wrong. It is up to you to prove yourself right.
 
An atheist believes that it is impossible for something to come from nothing, and that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed. From both of these things, they are forced to believe the universe is enternal. This type of eternal existance can be said to give the atheist comfort.
If you crossed out "the atheist" and stuck in "Neitzsche" that would be about right.

And indeed, if I believed what Neitzsche believed about cosmology, that would be a comfort to me.

But speaking as "the atheist", I think his cosmology was wrong, so it brings me no comfort as such. Matter will continue to exist, but one day life will not. This is a bit of a downer, and I'd prefer you not to bring the subject up. But thus, it seems, it is.
 
Speaking of comfort... a botle of eighteen year old Highland Park would do for me about now...
 
1) Atheists don't believe in god(s) creating the universe.

2) Science, which some atheists tend to believe, tells us that no matter or energy can be created (or destroyed).

So putting 1) and 2) together, atheists believe that the universe was definitely not created.

You're such an idiot.

Only a subset of atheists believe the things you've attributed to them. You can't even compose a logically valid argument.
 
Speaking of comfort... a botle of eighteen year old Highland Park would do for me about now...

Either that, or a bottle of one of the staples of college life:

image1lexikonspirituoseyl3.jpg
 
T'ai Chi still doesn't get it. Then again, it takes a thinking brain to actually learn.

All it takes to be atheist is a lack of belief in a god.

So, an atheist can believe in creation... just not by a god.
An atheist can believe that the world is "matrix" like.
An atheist can believe that pixies created the universe.
An atheist can believe that the universe is just a figment of his imagination.
An atheist can believe that the universe was just berthed from his anus.
An atheist can or can not accept that the big bang actually did happen.
An atheist can or can not accept the fact the evolution is a factual occurrence.

Do you get it now, T'ai Chi?
 
Don't be too hard on T'ai Chi.

We can't expect a Young-Earth Creationist to understand even the simplest concept.
 

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