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Told off by Sentinal...

Remember, It only to 30 shekels to turn Jesus in.

'Cuz you know, EVERYONE ON EARTH is equally as evil as Judas, and there's no way any of the millions of conspirators could have a conscience. The instant you touch anything that's government property, it magically sucks out every bit of decency out of you.
 
This flight out of JFK performed the same iratic flight pattern as the flights on 9-11 Yet fell apart in the "Power Dive" with Engine shutdown and the plane falling apart with the stress which also went far beyond design specs.

The passenger were in zero gravity and went to twice the Earths gravity when the fist pull out by the captain Who by the way was standing on the dash board trying to get the plane to slow down. They had to put the air brakes in play and the plane still fell into the sea of long Island after falling apart because the plane was unable to handle the stress on the engines or the fusalodge.

Yet, all the planes on 9-11 made it to their destination on point.
<snippage by TjW>

This is not a description of an Airbus crash that I'm aware of.
Still, I don't follow them all that closely. Do you have an approximate date (say, the year it happened in) for this?
Thanks.
 
Airbus crash

Doing a search on the NTSB database, the only Airbus crash in the state of New York between Jan 2001 and today that involved fatalities was this one:

There was also an AirCanada A319 that taxied into an Embraer, and a JetBlue A320 that skidded off an icy runway, but there were no fatalities from either of these.

If you don't want to follow the link, NTSB data is public domain, so here you go, probable cause first:

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
the in-flight separation of the vertical stabilizer as a result of the loads beyond ultimate design that were created by the first officer's unnecessary and excessive rudder pedal inputs. Contributing to these rudder pedal inputs were characteristics of the Airbus A300-600 rudder system design and elements of the American Airlines Advanced Aircraft Maneuvering Program.

Now, why did the copilot use unnecessary and excessive rudder inputs?
The airplane ran into wake turbulence from a fully loaded 747-400.

On November 12, 2001, about 0916:15 eastern standard time, American Airlines flight 587, an Airbus Industrie A300-605R, N14053, crashed into a residential area of Belle Harbor, New York, shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), Jamaica, New York. Flight 587 was a regularly scheduled passenger flight to Las Americas International Airport, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, with 2 flight crewmembers, 7 flight attendants, and 251 passengers aboard the airplane. The airplane's vertical stabilizer and rudder separated in flight and were found in Jamaica Bay, about 1 mile north of the main wreckage site. The airplane's engines subsequently separated in flight and were found several blocks north and east of the main wreckage site. All 260 people aboard the airplane and 5 people on the ground were killed, and the airplane was destroyed by impact forces and a postcrash fire. Flight 587 was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 on an instrument flight rules flight plan. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident.

The accident airplane arrived at JFK about 2231 on the night before the accident. The airplane had been flown from San Jose, Costa Rica, to JFK with an intermediate stop in Miami International Airport, Miami, Florida. During postaccident interviews, the pilots of the flight leg from MIA to JFK indicated that the flight was smooth and uneventful.

Flight 587 was the first leg of a 1-day roundtrip sequence for the flight crew. American Airlines records indicated that the captain checked in for the flight about 0614 and that the first officer checked in about 0630. The gate agent working the flight arrived at the departure gate about 0645. She stated that the flight attendants were already aboard the airplane at that time and that the captain and the first officer arrived at the gate about 0700.

About 0710, the airplane fueling process began. The airplane fueler indicated that, during the fueling process, he saw one of the pilots perform an exterior inspection of the airplane. He finished the fueling process about 0745 and stated that he saw nothing unusual regarding the airplane.

Statements provided to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department by American Airlines maintenance and avionics personnel indicated that, sometime between 0730 and 0800, the captain reported that the number 2 pitch trim and yaw damper system would not engage. Two avionics technicians were sent to the airplane to investigate the problem. They performed an auto flight system (AFS) check, which indicated a fault with the number 2 flight augmentation computer. The circuit breaker was then reset, another AFS check was performed, and no fault was detected. In addition, an autoland system check was performed, and that test also did not detect a fault. The avionics technicians estimated that they were in the cockpit for 5 to 7 minutes.

The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recording began about 0845:35. The CVR indicated that, about 0859:58, the airplane was cleared to push back from the gate. About 0901:33, the ground controller provided the flight crew with taxi instructions to runway 31L, and the first officer acknowledged these instructions. About 0902:05, the captain told the first officer, "your leg, you check the rudders." (The first officer was the flying pilot, and the captain was the nonflying pilot.) Data from the flight data recorder (FDR) showed that, about 0902:07, the rudder pedal check began. The FDR data also showed that a maximum right rudder pedal deflection of about 3.7 inches was recorded about 0902:11 and that a maximum left rudder pedal deflection of 3.6 inches was recorded about 0902:19. About 0902:23, the first officer responded, "rudders check." The FDR data showed that the rudder pedals returned to their neutral position about 0902:25.

About 0906:53, the ground controller provided the pilots of Japan Air Lines flight 47, a Boeing 747-400, with taxi instructions to runway 31L. About 0908:01, the ground controller instructed the Japan Air Lines pilots to contact the local (tower) controller. About 0908:58, the ground controller instructed the flight 587 pilots to follow the Japan Air Lines airplane and to contact the local controller. The first officer acknowledged this instruction.

About 0911:08, the local controller cleared the Japan Air Lines airplane for takeoff. About 0911:36, the local controller cautioned the flight 587 pilots about wake turbulence and instructed the pilots to taxi into position and hold for runway 31L. The first officer acknowledged the instruction. About 0913:05, the local controller instructed the Japan Air Lines pilots to fly the bridge climb and to contact the departure controller at the New York Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON). About 0913:21, the flight 587 captain said to the first officer, "you have the airplane."

About 0913:28, the local controller cleared flight 587 for takeoff, and the captain acknowledged the clearance. About 0913:35, the first officer asked the captain, "you happy with that [separation] distance?" About 3 seconds later, the captain replied, "we'll be all right once we get rollin'. He's supposed to be five miles by the time we're airborne, that's the idea." About 0913:46, the first officer said, "so you're happy."

The National Transportation Safety Board's airplane performance study for this accident0 determined that flight 587 started its takeoff roll about 0913:51 and lifted off about 0914:29, which was about 1 minute 40 seconds after the Japan Air Lines airplane. About 0914:43, the local controller instructed the flight 587 pilots to turn left, fly the bridge climb, and contact the New York TRACON departure controller. About 5 seconds later, the captain acknowledged this instruction. Radar data indicated that the airplane climbed to 500 feet above mean sea level (msl) and then entered a climbing left turn to a heading of 220º. About 0915:00, the captain made initial contact with the departure controller, informing him that the airplane was at 1,300 feet msl and climbing to 5,000 feet msl. About 0915:05, the departure controller instructed flight 587 to climb to and maintain 13,000 feet msl, and the captain acknowledged this instruction about 5 seconds later. About 0915:29, the CVR recorded the captain's statement "clean machine," indicating that the gear, flaps, and slats had all been retracted.

About 0915:35, flight 587 was climbing through 1,700 feet msl with its wings approximately level. About 1 second later, the departure controller instructed flight 587 to turn left and proceed direct to the WAVEY navigation intersection (located about 30 miles southeast of JFK). About 0915:41, the captain acknowledged the instruction. The controller did not receive any further transmissions from flight 587.

FDR data indicated that, about 0915:36, the airplane experienced a 0.04 G drop in longitudinal load factor, a 0.07 G shift to the left in lateral load factor, and about a 0.3 G drop in normal (vertical) load factor. The airplane performance study found that these excursions were consistent with a wake turbulence encounter. Between 0915:36 and 0915:41, the FDR recorded movement of the control column, control wheel, and rudder pedals. Specifically, the control column moved from approximately 0º (neutral) to 2º nose up, 2º nose down, and back to 0º; the control wheel moved a total of seven times, with peaks at 18º right, 30º left, 37º right, 34º left, 5º left, 21º left, and 23º right, before moving to between 5º and 6º left; and the rudder pedals moved from about 0.1 inch left (the starting point for the pedals) to about 0.1 inch right and 0.2 inch left before moving to 0.1 inch left. The airplane performance study indicated that, during this time, the rudder moved from 0º (neutral) to about 2º left, about 0.6º right, and back to 0º.

During the wake turbulence encounter, the airplane's pitch angle increased from 9º to 11.5º, decreased to about 10º, and increased again to 11º. The airplane's bank angle moved from 0º (wings level) to 17º left wing down, which was consistent with the turn to
the WAVEY navigation intersection.

At 0915:44.7, the captain stated, "little wake turbulence, huh?" to which the first officer replied, at 0915:45.6, "yeah." At 0915:48.2, the first officer indicated that he wanted the airspeed set to 250 knots, which was the maximum speed for flight below 10,000 feet msl. At that point, the airplane was at an altitude of about 2,300 feet msl.

FDR data indicated that, about 0915:51, the load factors began excursions that were similar to those that occurred about 0915:36: the longitudinal load factor dropped from 0.20 to 0.14 G, the lateral load factor shifted 0.05 G to the left, and the normal load factor dropped from 1.0 to 0.6 G. The airplane performance study found that these excursions were also consistent with a wake turbulence encounter. According to the FDR, the airplane's bank angle moved from 23º to 25º left wing down at 0915:51.5, the control wheel moved to 64º right at 0915:51.5, and the rudder pedals moved to 1.7 inches right at 0915:51.9.

At 0915:51.8, 0915:52.3, and 0915:52.9, the CVR recorded the sound of a thump, a click, and two thumps, respectively. At 0915:54.2, the first officer stated, in a strained voice, "max power." At that point, the airplane was traveling at 240 knots. About 0915:55, the captain asked, "you all right?" to which the first officer replied, "yeah, I'm fine." One second later, the captain stated, "hang onto it. Hang onto it." The CVR recorded the sound of a snap at 0915:56.6, the first officer's statement "let's go for power please" at 0915:57.5, and the sound of a loud thump at 0915:57.7. According to the airplane performance study, the vertical stabilizer's right rear main attachment fitting fractured at 0915:58.4, and the vertical stabilizer separated from the airplane immediately afterward. At 0915:58.5, the CVR recorded the sound of a loud bang. At that time, the airplane was traveling at an airspeed of about 251 knots.

According to the FDR, the rudder pedals moved from 1.7 inches right to 1.7 inches left, 1.7 inches right, 2.0 inches right, 2.4 inches left, and 1.3 inches right between 0915:52 and 0915:58.5. Also, the FDR showed that the control wheel moved 64º to the right at 0915:51.5, 78º (full) to the left at 0915:53.5, 64º to the right at 0915:55.5, and 78º to the left at 0915:56.5.

The airplane performance study estimated that, at 0915:53.2, the rudder was deflected 11º to the left, and the sideslip angle at the airplane's center of gravity (cg) was about 4º to the left (after peaking temporarily at 5º to the left).21 At 0915:56.8, the rudder was deflected 10.2º to the left, and the sideslip angle was about 7º to the left. At 0915:58.4 (the time that the right rear main attachment fitting fractured), the rudder was deflected between 10º and 11º to the right, the sideslip angle was between 11º and 12º to the right, and the airplane experienced a 0.2 G shift to the right in lateral load factor.

The CVR recorded, at 0916:00.0, a sound similar to a grunt and, 1 second later, the first officer's statement, "holy [expletive]." At 0916:04.4, the CVR recorded a sound similar to a stall warning repetitive chime, which lasted for 1.9 seconds. At 0916:07.5, the first officer stated, "what the hell are we into…we're stuck in it." At 0916:12.8, the captain stated, "get out of it, get out of it." The CVR recording ended 2 seconds later. The airplane was located at 40º 34' 37.59" north latitude and 73º 51' 01.31" west longitude. The accident occurred during the hours of daylight.

The Boeings that impacted the WTC didn't have a fully loaded 747-400 in front of them, so they didn't have a wake turbulence encounter.
(There is a really scary video taken by NASA of a Learjet "investigating" the wake turbulence from a heavy jet. The Lear is rolling, even with full opposite aileron. Yikes.)
The terrorists flying the Boeings didn't hit wake turbulence, so they didn't overcontrol the rudder, so the vertical fin had no reason to separate from the aircraft. So the Boeings remained stable and controllable until impact.
The Airbus was stable and controllable (though getting knocked around some by the turbulence from the 747) until it lost the vertical stabilizer due to the co-pilot overcontrolling.
I can't say exactly what happened after that, but the airplane would not be stable in yaw, they were still in the wake turbulence, and they had only 2500 feet of altitude.

This is the same incident I recalled in my previous post, and the narrative has remained the same.
Now, since this accident had absolutely no connection whatsoever to 9/11, the likelyhood of the government lying about it to cover up something about 9/11 is pretty remote.

If you want to get all excited about some red hot proof of how 9/11 couldn't have happened the way it is normally portrayed as happening, you need to look somewhere else, because this is a dead end. The maneuvers the Boeings made, while somewhat more abrupt than the ones airline pilots use in order to keep their passengers comfortable, were nowhere near the physical limits of the airplane.
 
Ah. I see I made an error. Sentinel is no longer talking about the Airbus, he's talking about the Egypt Air flight. Sorry. The complete report on that is here.

And reading that, it appears the suicidal co-pilot put them into a power-off dive which exceeded the airplane's Mach limit by a goodly amount. Then the captain came into the cockpit, pulled speed brakes and tried to pull out. The FDR stopped recording at around 18000 feet, but primary radar data showed that it climbed from 16000 back up to 26000 feet before its final dive.

It looks to me as though the Egypt Air flight was going faster than the WTC Boeings. 450 kts indicated at 20000 feet would be a TAS of around 610 kts, about 700 mph.
It didn't go supersonic, but the FDR did record a peak of .99 Mach, well over the .86 Mach limit.

So: yet another suicidal pilot, and even more of an overspeed.

However, even after all that, it stayed together well enough to climb back up ten thousand feet. Since the FDR stopped, we don't have data on what happened during its final descent. Did it go faster than the previous descent? Dunno. No data.

All the WTC Boeings had to do was not come apart before impact. Since the Egypt Air Boeing is documented as going faster without coming apart, why would you expect the WTC Boeings to come apart at their lower speed?
 
'Kinell I have seen some major league 9/11 nutters on here but this is genuinely disturbing.

And there is no book by Hitler called the New World Order. Still, I guess you can let another factual error slip right on by eh Sentinel?

Sheesh!!
 
No, Paul. Not enough said. In this thread you wrote:
There is plenty of backup material to comfirm what is is being pointed relating to "persons of Interest" and certain corporations posibly connected to 9-11.

We all know what occured with Enron and their connection to Keyspan Energy. There is the the odd little "Rush" demolition in which two Aprox 400ft Gas tanks wrecked two months before 9-11 and when you do the measurement South Tower hit aprox 968 ft from ground floor up to 78th floor and do the math measurement from top down to 78 you get aprox 400ft. Regarding the Nort tower it is theorized that reason for the higher hit was take into consideration the 350ft x 300 ton radio antenna that had to land within austin tobin plaza like the other tower also tilting into austin tobin plaza. That is why 3 WFC which was right across West st was only slightly damaged. The winter Garden Theater suffered the greatest damage. There is the "secret" Energy metting held by Cheney so we have a connection between government and Energy Companies.
This has been discussed here before, but I took the time to reply as follows:

Sentinel, if you don't want to be called a kook, stop spewing garbage like this. It takes two minutes to get information about the demolition of those tanks, as you've been told before.
Representatives of KeySpan Energy, various city agencies, and a demolition company presented plans for the demolition of the two large gas tanks located near the intersection of Vandervoort and Maspeth avenues. The tanks have stood empty since the mid 1990s, and, according to a representative of KeySpan, which owns the property, the company has been planning the demolition for approximately two years. During a heated question and answer period, local residents questioned safety procedures and the delay in community notification.

According to Cathy Sevos, a community affairs officer at KeySpan, the tanks, which were built in 1927 and 1948, are being demolished because their age presents health and safety risks, they are costly to maintain, and they are obsolete due to the use of pipelines and other new technology.

Demolition is tentatively planned for July 15 by implosion. Compared to other methods, which involve months of disassembling with torches and cranes or jacks and which pose a risk of accidental collapse and release of lead vapor (due to heat from the torches), implosion takes only one minute and reduces the chance of lead contamination, Ms. Sevos said.

Implosion is carried out when explosives are inserted into holes in the structure, allowing it to collapse, according to Jim Santoro, a representative of Controlled Demolition Incorporated (CDI), the firm contracted by KeySpan to do the work. He said CDI has taken down over 6,000 structures worldwide, and he laid out all of the steps leading up to the demolition, including various safety precautions, and the process for removal of the debris afterwards. Once the structures have been demolished, the metal will be cut up with mechanical shears, a procedure which helps prevent the release of lead, he said.
http://www.billburg.com/community/article.cfm?Id=102

When you didn't respond, I asked
Agreed that the tank demolitions were planned for a long time and quite public, Paul? Are you finally going to drop that silly claim?
Please answer that question Paul.
 
Take me to your leader!

Smoking%20Robot.jpg
 
"What's the scale of those photos?" Bronze Dog asked, knowing that he would get only a dodgy answer, if any.
 
KeySpan (ticker: KSE, exchange: New York Stock Exchange (.N)) News Release - 13-Feb-1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enron To Manage Gas Supply For Brooklyn Union

February 13, 1998

Houston & Brooklyn -- KeySpan Energy Corporation and Enron Capital & Trade Resources Corp. (ECT), a subsidiary of Enron Corp., today announced an agreement whereby ECT will provide gas supply management services for Brooklyn Union Gas, the primary subsidiary of KeySpan Energy. Under the terms of this agreement, which is subject to approval by the New York State Public Service Commission, ECT will assume responsibility for managing Brooklyn Union's interstate pipeline transportation, gas supply, and storage.


ECT will ensure that Brooklyn Union's gas supply requirements are met, while guaranteeing Brooklyn Union a premium over savings and profits that Brooklyn Union has been able to achieve independently for its customers and shareholders respectively. By achieving more than $10 million annually in combined savings and profits from its New York Hub's off-system sales in 17 states, Brooklyn Union continues to be among the leading independent gas supply managers in the United States. Brooklyn Union typically purchases natural gas in excess of 140 billion cubic feet per year at an annual cost of approximately $500 million.


This arrangement between ECT and Brooklyn Union represents the largest natural gas distribution asset management transaction to date, and is one of the few transactions where complete control of the natural gas portfolio has been transferred to a third party.


"KeySpan will improve its profitability by integrating the use of Brooklyn Union's regional assets into ECT's national gas trading and price-risk management operations," said Robert B. Catell, chairman, president, and CEO of KeySpan Energy Corporation. "This transaction illustrates the innovative strategies KeySpan is pursuing to bring value to our customers and shareholders."


"As the leading marketer of natural gas in North America, ECT has the expertise and capability to capture additional value inherent in Brooklyn Union's natural-gas supply portfolio in the national gas market and bring those benefits home to the utility and its customers," said Kenneth L. Lay, chairman and CEO, Enron Corp. "ECT's guaranteed profits and savings for Brooklyn Union will serve as a model for other utilities throughout the country. We believe that this transaction will add significant momentum to the trend of gas distribution companies outsourcing their gas supply function in preparation for full retail competition."


On September 29, 1997, KeySpan Energy Corporation (NYSE: KSE) became the parent holding company of The Brooklyn Union Gas Company, the nation's fifth largest gas distribution company. KeySpan Energy Corporation has subsidiaries and interests in domestic oil and natural gas exploration and production, gas transmission, gas storage, and energy marketing and services. KeySpan has international investments in gas distribution, gas transmission and cogeneration. KeySpan owns, through Brooklyn Union, 66 percent of The Houston Exploration Company (NYSE: THX) and includes among its subsidiaries KeySpan Energy Services Inc. and KeySpan Energy Management Inc. KeySpan Energy Corporation plans to combine with the Long Island Lighting Company. This transaction is awaiting final approval of regulatory authorities. Other news about KeySpan Energy Corporation or Brooklyn Union can be accessed through websites at www.keyspanenergy.com or www.bug.com.


Enron is the world's leading integrated natural gas and electricity company. The company, which owns approximately $23 billion in energy related assets, delivers physical commodities and risk management and financial services to provide energy solutions to customers around the world. Enron's internet address is www.enron.com, and the stock is traded under the ticker symbol, "ENE."



For more information, contact
KeySpan Energy Media Relations
 

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