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Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

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Belz... said:
I'm sorry, I'd prefer not to act like a kid.
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Fine, but do you really think it is worth arguing with someone who has no concept of of reality? Who shows no likelihood of ever accepting your arguments?

Bear in mind that there is plenty of evidence on his own website to show that Chris is mentally ill. Confronting him about his delusions is very unlikely to help with this and could well be worsening his condition.

Even if this isn't the case you're still arguing with someone who won't change their mind and whose arguments will convince nobody.

The argument is won, let it go.

The Kittens may be childish, but they have serious purpose - diffusing this thread and leaving Christophera be, in the hope that he will one day seek help.

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Edited to Add: Anybody just joining this thread, please don't just jump in, look around and consider if it is wise to argue with Christophera - you could save yourself a great deal of frustration this way.
 
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I thought the show was Ally McBeal, not Amy McBeal.

Another fine example of why we should trust Christophera's amazing photographic memory.
 
maccy said:
Fine, but do you really think it is worth arguing withe someone who has no concept of of reality? Who shows no likelihood of ever accpeting your arguments.
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I'm well aware of this.

Bear in mind that there is plenty of evidence on his own website to show that Chris is mentally ill. Confronting him about his delusions is very unlikely to help with this and could well be worsening his condition.
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I'm no psi. How exactly do you propose we deal with it ? Ignoring him ? I'm not sure that'll change anything.

I'm just tagging along. If you don't like the thread, you can always leave. I've done it before.

The Kittens may be childish, but they have serious purpose.
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No, no they don't.
 
Belz... said:
I'm well aware of this.
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Then why are you still arguing? I'm curious to know what you get out of this.

I'm no psi. How exactly do you propose we deal with it ? Ignoring him ? I'm not sure that'll change anything.
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I'll freely admit that I'm not an expert either but it seems to me that if we keep arguing with him then he won't change his mind (6 months of arguing and him not changing is mind is enough evidence of this for me). If we stop arguing then it shows that we don't care about his arguments, we're not giving him validation by replying. This may give him pause, it may not - but I am sure we're not going to change his mind by arguing, so we have nothing to lose by stopping.

I'm sure there are plenty of other forums where Chris is also pursuing this argument but the less time he spends repeating himself with us the more time he has do other things and the more likely it is that he may have a period of reflection and come to his senses a little.

Here is an academic source that suggests that arguing with Chris may make things worse:

Therapists who want to maintain a working alliance with a paranoid patient must avoid becoming the object of projection. They should provide models of non-paranoid behavior, and not allow themselves to become either an aggressor or a victim. The therapist must build trust gradually, without trying to be too friendly, and avoid showing of anger or defensiveness. Complete honesty is essential because people with paranoid tendencies are highly sensitive to deception and holding back.

Disputing or otherwise directly confronting paranoid beliefs is ineffective, and interpretations will be regarded mainly as accusations. Instead, the therapist must help patients acknowledge the feelings they have been defending themselves against.
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http://hmiworld.org/hmi/issues/Jan_Feb_2005/around_paranoia.html emphasis mine.

This may not apply to Christophera, but are you willing to take the risk that it does? What are you getting from this argument that makes it worth taking this risk?

I'm just tagging along. If you don't like the thread, you can always leave. I've done it before.
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I'll stick around for a bit, if only to encourage anybody new to the thread to think about whether they should get in involved or not.

I'm interested to see if I can convince people that it's better just to ignore Chris. I'm not going to get upset if you don't agree with me, but I think its worth having the argument.

Lastly, I'm interested in the psychology of the people who keep arguing.

You say you left, what made you come back?
 
maccy said:
Fine, but do you really think it is worth arguing with someone who has no concept of of reality? Who shows no likelihood of ever accepting your arguments?
<snip>
The argument is won, let it go.
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i tend to agree with you maccy. although it is difficult not to respond when chris continues to regurgitate his nonsense here. it's the newcomers to the thread that i feel sorry for. they read his guff then find one of the numerous flaws and like me just feel they have to put the poor sap right.

as a rookie debunker i have learned many things from this thread, in particular the mindset of your typical CT.....unwilling to see evidence that compromises their own theory, the inability to accept that they might be wrong, the total inanity of some of their claims.
chris might be an extreme case but what has stood out for me is the LIES he has told (the documentary, the mohawks etc etc) to bolster the otherwise flimsy "evidence" he feels he holds for his theory. i found this reprehensible. fair enough, stick to your guns as to what you might believe to be true but to tell blatant falsehoods is many rungs down the moral ladder and chris should be put in his place for that. in that sense i can see where belz is coming from.
for my part i am discontinuing to try and argue a decent case with christophera here, as you say he is beyond hope. although i will still take a look at the thread now and again. it's always good for a laugh.

BV
 
zaayrdragon said:
I thought the show was Ally McBeal, not Amy McBeal.

Another fine example of why we should trust Christophera's amazing photographic memory.
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I am corrected. I never have been able to get that right. Amy is stuck there, I don't watch TV, haven't for about 8 years and only watched it a few times and maybe saw the intro once. My memory often works better with images and then they trigger recall of verbal.

For example: Someone a couple of years ago sent me to watch that 18 minute celebratory documentary about the WTC. In it there was a shot looking down obto a scene where floors were being assembled 3 stories below and a crane was rapidly rotating and lifting a slowly spinning floor panel. The same shot was in the 2 hour documentary I saw in 1990. it kept bothering me, as if there was something important about it.

After maybe 8 months the image kept coming back and suddenly I remembered the narration talking about the fact that the videographers never found any images of the final work on the floors before the concrete was poured. Then I remembered about the detail drawings of the tempered plates that were used to fill in the truncated corners to the interior box columns and realized that the extraordinary tolerences the videographers remarked upon provided the perfect guide plates for optimized cutting charges built into the floors.
 
Bonovada,

Where you see lies, I see delusions - which is what makes it easy for me avoid responding and encourages me to ask others to do the same.

I have to say that Chris is the only person on this board that I fell this way about. TruthSeeker1234 seems to have a normal (or at least functional) life outside of his CT theories (and extreme anarcho-capitalist ideas) - Chris' website shows plenty of evidence that his life is falling apart.

So if anybody does want to cut their teeth with so0meone with crazy ideas, I'd recommend TruthSeeker1234 rather than Christophera.
 
bonavada said:
unwilling to see evidence that compromises their own theory, the inability to accept that they might be wrong, the total inanity of some of their claims.
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If you had any evidence at all you might be able to pretend what you do have compromises the scenario which is assembled that does explain near free fall and total pulverization.

You and yours have been totally unable to even produce one image of steel box columns inside the core are at some elevation off the gorund. Whereas I have numerous pictures of concrete and they should show steel core columns if they existed, but they did not so they are never seen.

Here is a piece of the top of the concrete core of WTC 2 falling onto WTC 3.
 
maccy said:
Bonovada,

Where you see lies, I see delusions - which is what makes it easy for me avoid responding and encourages me to ask others to do the same.

I have to say that Chris is the only person on this board that I fell this way about. TruthSeeker1234 seems to have a normal (or at least functional) life outside of his CT theories (and extreme anarcho-capitalist ideas) - Chris' website shows plenty of evidence that his life is falling apart.

So if anybody does want to cut their teeth with so0meone with crazy ideas, I'd recommend TruthSeeker1234 rather than Christophera.
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noted..........

Q.E.D. the above also :-]

BV
 
Christophera said:
If you had any evidence at all you might be able to pretend what you do have compromises the scenario which is assembled that does explain near free fall and total pulverization.

You and yours have been totally unable to even produce one image of steel box columns inside the core are at some elevation off the gorund. Whereas I have numerous pictures of concrete and they should show steel core columns if they existed, but they did not so they are never seen.

Here is a piece of the top of the concrete core of WTC 2 falling onto WTC 3.
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chris,
please, out of interest...how many hits have you had on your site(s) since this thread began? and how many before?

BV
 
More definitions to consider:

The identifying mark of paranoid personality is fear (and expectation) of attack and betrayal. Paranoid personalities are suspicious, touchy, humorless, quick to take offense and slow to forgive, self-righteous, argumentative, often litigious. They seldom show tenderness and may avoid intimacy; often they seem tense and brusque. Paranoid personalities find causal connections everywhere; nothing is coincidental. They think that others are taking special notice of them and see references to themselves in innocuous behavior and irrelevant events. They are constantly on guard, searching for hidden motives and meetings.

Once they fix on an idea or explanation, they look for evidence to validate their prejudices, and it is almost impossible to change their minds. When something goes wrong in their lives, they believe that another person is to blame.
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Paranoid schizophrenia is identified by prominent delusions or hallucinations in a person whose reasoning and emotional responses are relatively well preserved. Some believe it is a distinct type of schizophrenia; others regard it as one form or stage of an underlying schizophrenic condition that produces different symptoms at different times. Like paranoid personalities, schizophrenic patients in a paranoid state are angry, rigid, and argumentative, but unlike paranoid personalities, they have delusions — false beliefs about external reality that persist in contradiction to the beliefs of others and despite obvious and irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
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from http://hmiworld.org/hmi/issues/Jan_Feb_2005/around_paranoia.html

some pages from Christophera's websites:

http://www.truthasaur.com/my_22/my22.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/nojustice/timeline.html
 
Chris must have me on "ignore"

uruk said:
Just in case Chris is too lazy:


:
Originally Posted by Christophera
You have changed the text of the page. Misrepresenting what I'm doing which is trying to save lives.
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Well, your not going to save lives by posting a website.



I've lost 5 friends to suicide in 7 years and 2 to drugs and alcohol. The mother of an 18 year old next door who has herself a 6 month old baby was found decomposing in the bushes behind a shopping center 3 weeks ago from alcohol poisoning, her dad will be the next to go. Her grandmother, her Godmother and another woman and I filed suit in federal court in April 2006 to try and prevent the death of any family members by asking the Fed to compel specific performance according to California Health and Saftey Code 1370.4 (the mental health dept, had started in 1999 but was stopped by superiors). It has been dismissed with prejudice and appealled in the 9th circuit.
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Wow. No wonder your having problems. I grew up in housing projects (government housing). I had to experiance drug bust at 4 in the AM, shootouts, spousal beatings next door, gangs, loud and violent block parties. I've lost more friends than I can count to drugs addiction, overdose. I even had a friend who was executed for killing his grandmother to get money for drugs. http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statisti...t/lokinbil.jpg
I lost three uncles to alchoholism. They died from cirrotic (sp?) livers.

The one thing I've learned is that you can't save anybody unless thier looking to be saved.
You also have to be able to save yourself first before you can be in a position to save anybody else. And from the looks of it Chris, you need alot of help yourself.




We no longer have a Constitution, (did we ever?)

Case No. CV. 06-2085

3000 are killed at the WTC, familys being destroyed by drugs and alcohol, I work to do something about all of it and you lie, distort and manipulate my efforts.
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But doing the wrong thing or wasting your time and effort on something that is incorrect is just as bad. Besides pestering the the wrong authorities with incoherency and conjecture is not going to help your case. For them to respond requires massive amount of evidence and corroberating sources. Unfortunatly your website sadly lacks both. And you efforts are being directed at the wrong authorities and improperly so.
For instance, let's take alook at those documents you posted



:
You also left out important documents, See them at the bottom.

You are sick

I seek public records and the County of Santa Barbara fails to appear on subpoena
http://algoxy.com/law/nojustice2/images/subden.gif
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In this letter you seem to be asking them for records that date back to 1876 to 1879. First, The Santa Barbara county sherriff's department wasn't formed untill 1850.you were asking for records that dated back to 26 years after the county was first formed. Second, most organizations do not have active records that date back that far. Documents that old are usually archived off site and usually with a university or historical society. You should have found out where the county historical records are stored, then asked whoever has them for access.
(also, you need to edit the document. It has your address listed on it.)



:
:
I use the Freedom of Information Act to get the response from the State Mental Health Department as promised in the letter from the County Mental Health Department below, no response.
http://algoxy.com/psych/images/foiarequestmh.gif

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.p...d=116331318
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County facilities are not equiped or allowed to perform any experimental proceedures on patients. That is usually done through a research university. And that is only done after a collossal amount of research and study by competent doctors have propsed the procedure through the proper channels.

Also, The Freedom of Information Act has absolutly nothing to do with the conducting of experimental medical proceedures. This is further proof that you really don't know what you are doing.

Like I said before, doing the wrong thing is just as bad (if not worse) as doing nothing at all.


Chris, you really need to get help for yourself first. Maybe then you'll be able to think clearer and be able to help those you wish to help.
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