Kerry leading in "biggest douche" race

[Art Vandelay]

First, Kerry said that those that don't pay attention in school are going to end up getting stuck in Iraq. Then Republicans jumped on it, cynically exploiting it in an attempt to hold onto Congress. How did Kerry respond? By issuing a non-apology "apology" in which he blamed the whole thing on Republicans.

"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended."

So... in other words, instead of apologizing for his own actions, Kerry is expressing "regret" (not remorse, "regret") for what other people did. Way to duck responsibility, there. His words weren't "misinterpreted", they were interpreted according to what he said. They were not "misnterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform", they were interpreted correctly to imply that.

"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: My poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and [was] never intended to refer to any troop."

Yes, it was. He may not have intended it to be, but it was. How about owning up to that instead of lying about it?

"It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy."

In other words, "I'm going to try distract you from what I did by attacking my opponents, while at the very same time hypocritically accusing them of the same thing. I see nothing unseemly about using a supposed apology as an opportunity to criticize other people, nor with implying that the fuss is solely due to Republican exploitation of the issue, and that I bear no responsibility."

The media have joined in, editing Kerry's statement to add the word he claims he intended to include, and claiming that Kerry has "apologized", when he has done no such thing.

 

[fuelair]

First, Kerry said that those that don't pay attention in school are going to end up getting stuck in Iraq. Then Republicans jumped on it, cynically exploiting it in an attempt to hold onto Congress. How did Kerry respond? By issuing a non-apology "apology" in which he blamed the whole thing on Republicans.

"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member or American who was offended."

So... in other words, instead of apologizing for his own actions, Kerry is expressing "regret" (not remorse, "regret") for what other people did. Way to duck responsibility, there. His words weren't "misinterpreted", they were interpreted according to what he said. They were not "misnterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform", they were interpreted correctly to imply that.

"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: My poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and [was] never intended to refer to any troop."

Yes, it was. He may not have intended it to be, but it was. How about owning up to that instead of lying about it?

"It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy."

In other words, "I'm going to try distract you from what I did by attacking my opponents, while at the very same time hypocritically accusing them of the same thing. I see nothing unseemly about using a supposed apology as an opportunity to criticize other people, nor with implying that the fuss is solely due to Republican exploitation of the issue, and that I bear no responsibility."

The media have joined in, editing Kerry's statement to add the word he claims he intended to include, and claiming that Kerry has "apologized", when he has done no such thing.

Art, with no offense, I thought when I read the words that Kerry had a lot to apologise for (even though there is strong evidence , thanks to recent (read: Repulican approved) changes in qualifications [no HS diploma,GED needed, etc.] that it would be technically correct for some enlistees). Then I saw/heard the clip and I can now say that , though I wish he had just dropped the joke or specifically used Bushes name, there is no doubt in my mind that he thought he was understood to be subtly throwing out a sneaky
anti-Bush line and had no idea anyone could not catch it as that (watch his face carefully on the last 5 or six words - I guarantee that is the sneaky smirk of a person digging the knife in an opponent - and our military is not his opponent.).

 

[UserGoogol]

I don't see a real difference between saying "I'm sorry my words were interpreted" and "I'm sorry I misspoke." They're saying the same exact thing. He said words that he thought had one meaning, people thought they had a different meaning, and he is sorry. It's just a grammatical difference of active versus passive voice, but it's the same basic statement. Maybe passive voice is a bit pussier, but there is a difference between being a pussy and being a douche.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Look:

He said a dumb thing, he apologized. Incident over.

Life goes on, and -- at *some* point -- so must we all.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Then I saw/heard the clip and I can now say that , though I wish he had just dropped the joke or specifically used Bushes name, there is no doubt in my mind that he thought he was understood to be subtly throwing out a sneaky anti-Bush line and had no idea anyone could not catch it as that (watch his face carefully on the last 5 or six words - I guarantee that is the sneaky smirk of a person digging the knife in an opponent - and our military is not his opponent.).

I'm willingt ogive him the benefit of the doubt that at the time he thought it was clear. But now it should be obvious that it was not clear.

I don't see a real difference between saying "I'm sorry my words were interpreted" and "I'm sorry I misspoke." They're saying the same exact thing. He said words that he thought had one meaning, people thought they had a different meaning, and he is sorry. It's just a grammatical difference of active versus passive voice, but it's the same basic statement. Maybe passive voice is a bit pussier, but there is a difference between being a pussy and being a douche.

They are saying completely different things. You seem to not be quite clear on the difference between passive and active voice. "I was misinterpreted" is in passive voice. The active voice version of that would be "Bush misinterpreted me", not "I misspoke". In changing between active and passive voice, the recipient of the action and the performer of the action don't change. But here, the difference goes beyond mere grammar, to fundamentally change the nature of the events. If you say "I misspoke", you are taking responsibility, and saying that you are the one who performed the action. If you say "I was misinterpreted", you are blaming others, and claiming to be the victim of other people's actions. It doesn't make sense to apologize for what other people do, so if he says "I was misinterpreted" rather than "I misspoke", then it's not an apology.

Look:

He said a dumb thing, he apologized. Incident over.

Life goes on, and -- at *some* point -- so must we all.

Except that he didn't apologize. That's the whole point. He didn't say "I regret what I did", he said "I regret that the Republicans made such a fuss over what I did". That's what is so appaling about his actions.

 

[Darth Rotor]

First, Kerry said that those that don't pay attention in school are going to end up getting stuck in Iraq. Then Republicans jumped on it, cynically exploiting it in an attempt to hold onto Congress. How did Kerry respond? By issuing a non-apology "apology" in which he blamed the whole thing on Republicans.

==sinp==

The media have joined in, editing Kerry's statement to add the word he claims he intended to include, and claiming that Kerry has "apologized", when he has done no such thing.

Art, I don't think he's running for President again. He's back to blowhard, and Senator, like before.

Let go of your hate, Padawan Art, hate leads to the Dark Side.

Oh, wait, I am a Sith lord.

Never mind. Carry on with your hate and anger.

DR

 

[Dave1001]

This is a real issue?

 

[Mephisto]

Apparently Bush wasn't the only one too stupid to get the joke

Bush owes troops an apology, not Kerry

Olbermann: Bush ‘appearing to be stupid’ about Kerry’s joke

SPECIAL COMMENT
By Keith Olbermann
Anchor, 'Countdown'
Countdown
Updated: 2:55 p.m. PT Nov 2, 2006

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/
___________

From the link:

Sen. Kerry, as you well know, spoke at a college in Southern California. With bitter humor he told the students that he had been in Texas the day before, that President Bush used to live in that state, but that now he lives in the state of denial.

He said the trip had reminded him about the value of education — that “if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

The senator, in essence, called Mr. Bush stupid.

The context was unmistakable: Texas; the state of denial; stuck in Iraq. No interpretation required.

And Mr. Bush and his minions responded by appearing to be too stupid to realize that they had been called stupid.

They demanded Kerry apologize to the troops in Iraq.

And so he now has.

That phrase — “appearing to be too stupid” — is used deliberately, Mr. Bush.

Because there are only three possibilities here.

One, sir, is that you are far more stupid than the worst of your critics have suggested; that you could not follow the construction of a simple sentence; that you could not recognize your own life story when it was deftly summarized; that you could not perceive it was the sad ledger of your presidency that was being recounted.

The second option is that you and those who work for you deliberately twisted what Sen. Kerry said to fit your political template; that you decided to take advantage of it, to once again pretend that the attacks, solely about your own incompetence, were in fact attacks on the troops or even on the nation itself.

The third possibility is, obviously, the nightmare scenario: that the first two options are in some way conflated.
____________

Here's another quote (from my VD thread) that shows better men than most of us have accepted Kerry's apology:

The American Legion Accepts Kerry's Apology; Renews Call For Better GI Bill

INDIANAPOLIS, November 01, 2006 - Late this afternoon, Senator John Kerry issued a statement which said: "I personally apologize to any servicemember, family member, or American who was offended" by comments he made about being "stuck in Iraq."

"On behalf of The American Legion, we accept the senator's apology for his intemperate remark," said Paul A. Morin, National Commander of The American Legion.

"We hope that the senator will use this opportunity to join with his colleagues in both houses to pass a GI Bill that gives members of the National Guard and Reserves educational benefits equal to those received by their regular Army counterparts," said Morin. "

http://www.legion.org/?section=pub_..._listreleases&content=pr_press_release&id=406

 

[Dr Adequate]

So, let's see.

Kerry makes a crack about Bush.

Bush et al twist his meaning with the deliberate intention of offending as many soldiers and veterans as possible.

Kerry apologizes.

Spot the biggest douche:

(a) Kerry.

(b) Bush.

(c) Art Vandelay.

 

[Art Vandelay]

One, sir, is that you are far more stupid than the worst of your critics have suggested; that you could not follow the construction of a simple sentence; that you could not recognize your own life story when it was deftly summarized; that you could not perceive it was the sad ledger of your presidency that was being recounted.

His own life story? is he stuck in Iraq? No, he is not. The troops are. So saying that stupid people are stuck in Iraq is a dig at:
a) Bush, who is not stuck in Iraq
b) The troops, who are stuck in Iraq.

The second option is that you and those who work for you deliberately twisted what Sen. Kerry said to fit your political template;

There was no twisting needed. Kerry said what they said he said.

INDIANAPOLIS, November 01, 2006 - Late this afternoon, Senator John Kerry issued a statement which said: "I personally apologize to any servicemember, family member, or American who was offended" by comments he made about being "stuck in Iraq."

IT would be nice to see the actual quote.

So, let's see.

Kerry makes a crack about Bush.

Bush et al twist his meaning with the deliberate intention of offending as many soldiers and veterans as possible.

Kerry apologizes.

So lets see: Dr A claims that Republicans twisted Kerry's meaning, yet gives no support for his claim. He claims that Kerry apologized, yet gives no support for that claim. And this after multiple other instances of dishonesty on the part of Dr A. Apparently Dr A is pursuing the title as well.

 

[a_unique_person]

Bush owes troops an apology, not Kerry

Olbermann: Bush ‘appearing to be stupid’ about Kerry’s joke

SPECIAL COMMENT
By Keith Olbermann
Anchor, 'Countdown'
Countdown
Updated: 2:55 p.m. PT Nov 2, 2006

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/
___________

From the link:

Sen. Kerry, as you well know, spoke at a college in Southern California. With bitter humor he told the students that he had been in Texas the day before, that President Bush used to live in that state, but that now he lives in the state of denial.

He said the trip had reminded him about the value of education — that “if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

The senator, in essence, called Mr. Bush stupid.

The context was unmistakable: Texas; the state of denial; stuck in Iraq. No interpretation required.

And Mr. Bush and his minions responded by appearing to be too stupid to realize that they had been called stupid.

They demanded Kerry apologize to the troops in Iraq.

And so he now has.

That phrase — “appearing to be too stupid” — is used deliberately, Mr. Bush.

Because there are only three possibilities here.

One, sir, is that you are far more stupid than the worst of your critics have suggested; that you could not follow the construction of a simple sentence; that you could not recognize your own life story when it was deftly summarized; that you could not perceive it was the sad ledger of your presidency that was being recounted.

The second option is that you and those who work for you deliberately twisted what Sen. Kerry said to fit your political template; that you decided to take advantage of it, to once again pretend that the attacks, solely about your own incompetence, were in fact attacks on the troops or even on the nation itself.

The third possibility is, obviously, the nightmare scenario: that the first two options are in some way conflated.
____________

Here's another quote (from my VD thread) that shows better men than most of us have accepted Kerry's apology:

The American Legion Accepts Kerry's Apology; Renews Call For Better GI Bill

INDIANAPOLIS, November 01, 2006 - Late this afternoon, Senator John Kerry issued a statement which said: "I personally apologize to any servicemember, family member, or American who was offended" by comments he made about being "stuck in Iraq."

"On behalf of The American Legion, we accept the senator's apology for his intemperate remark," said Paul A. Morin, National Commander of The American Legion.

"We hope that the senator will use this opportunity to join with his colleagues in both houses to pass a GI Bill that gives members of the National Guard and Reserves educational benefits equal to those received by their regular Army counterparts," said Morin. "

http://www.legion.org/?section=pub_..._listreleases&content=pr_press_release&id=406

It's a favourite debating tactic of some of the JREF forum members.

 

[varwoche]

His own life story? is he stuck in Iraq? No, he is not. The troops are. So saying that stupid people are stuck in Iraq is a dig at:
a) Bush, who is not stuck in Iraq
b) The troops, who are stuck in Iraq.

On a day in day out basis, members on this forum (and elsewhere, needless to say, but one can never be too careful when semantic hyper-pedantry is afoot) interpret words in a narrow way to suit a particular argument. And while words are important, it's too bad how this practice so often detracts from the issue, often in the goofy extreme.

What's even goofier is to apply the same type semantic pedantry to the spoken word, where word choice is more casual, as you have done throughout this thread.

And I thought you should know Art, as you apparently value precision, that you attributed Olberman's words to Mephisto ... accidentally I assume.

 

[UserGoogol]

Words do not have objective meaning, they merely have the meaning that people interpret them to mean. Therefore, the difference between "I said the wrong thing, sorry about that" and "People misinterpreted me, and I regret that happened" is fairly philosophical.

 

[shemp]

So, let's see.

Kerry makes a crack about Bush.

Bush et al twist his meaning with the deliberate intention of offending as many soldiers and veterans as possible.

Kerry apologizes.

Spot the biggest douche:

(a) Kerry.

(b) Bush.

(c) Art Vandelay.

I would vote (c), but we have much more evidences for (b) so I will vote (b).

 

[steverino]

So, let's see.

Kerry makes a crack about Bush.

Bush et al twist his meaning with the deliberate intention of offending as many soldiers and veterans as possible.

So let's see. Bush-haters think Bush is stupid, simple minded, and has no mental capacity-until they need for him to be cunningly manipulative. Then he is that.

DR. AD- You hate America, so why not leave it. Oh, wait.

 

[Art Vandelay]

What's even goofier is to apply the same type semantic pedantry to the spoken word, where word choice is more casual, as you have done throughout this thread.

How so?

And I thought you should know Art, as you apparently value precision, that you attributed Olberman's words to Mephisto ... accidentally I assume.

I attributed Mephisto words to Mephisto. The fact that they were originally written by Olberman doesn't change the fact that Mephisto posted them, and did so in a manner that gave every indication that he intended them express his position.

Words do not have objective meaning, they merely have the meaning that people interpret them to mean. Therefore, the difference between "I said the wrong thing, sorry about that" and "People misinterpreted me, and I regret that happened" is fairly philosophical.

What a bunch of sophist BS. I suppose you'd be okay with me calling you a child rapist, since there's no objective meaning to the phrase?

 

[varwoche]

I attributed Mephisto words to Mephisto.

Binary falsehood as anyone can see plain as day.

It's a clumsy mistake, not a federal offense -- no big deal. You're lucky though that members aren't trying to cast your clumsiness in the worst possible light while ignoring obvious, benign interpretations [cough].

 

[UserGoogol]

What a bunch of sophist BS. I suppose you'd be okay with me calling you a child rapist, since there's no objective meaning to the phrase?

I wouldn't be okay with it, but if you accidentally called me a rapist than I wouldn't see what would be worth being sorry for. When you apologize for something, you are saying that it is your fault and that it's wrong. Accidents seem to be not your fault by definition.

I suppose that's not the same as the argument I made, which does seem stupid. I think the argument I had in my head was smarter, though. :3

 

[Dr Adequate]

So lets see: Dr A claims that Republicans twisted Kerry's meaning, yet gives no support for his claim. He claims that Kerry apologized, yet gives no support for that claim.

These claims are well-supported by information already posted in this thread.

And this after multiple other instances of dishonesty on the part of Dr A.

Do you actually believe that if you recite this stupid lie often enough, you'll convince someone? Don't you think people notice that you are unable to substantiate it?

 

[Dr Adequate]

So let's see. Bush-haters think Bush is stupid, simple minded, and has no mental capacity-until they need for him to be cunningly manipulative. Then he is that.

Which part of et al did you not understand?

He has a staff, I believe.