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Balancing skepticism and courtesy

I have the most difficulty with situations where you're assumed to be a believer. I'm not tremendously assertive, but I do enjoy a good debate. As mentioned here, lots of believers take "debate" to mean "you're being negative" or "why are you attacking me?". So basically, keep quiet and let them assume you share their beliefs, or say something, and be branded as an aggressor.

So in the situation where you're assumed to be a believer, do you let it go, or risk the hostility?

What if, rather than being on the subject of belief and rationality it were about racism? (You know what I mean--because I'm white, I've had people talk with me assuming I share their same hateful mindset with regards to African-Americans. Similarly, I've had other guys assume that because I'm male I'd enjoy talking about women as if they were objects.)
 
Originally Posted by qayak
That is brilliant! I hope you don't mind but I am going to steal it and not even give you any credit.

articulett said:
I stole it myself. :)
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Just goes to show you, two wrongs do make a right! :D
 
qayak said:
She had a younger brother that I know of. He was not taken from the home.
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That is even more sad. I hope that as he grows up he will be able to channel this pain into rethinking everything he has been force-fed growing up.
As for the parents, I keep thinking of a song by John Lennon, "How Do You Sleep?"
 
Minarvia said:
articulett said:
Oh, and totally off topic...I have to say that I am learning a lot from this forum and people are being so much friendlier than I expected.
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Welcome Minarvia! Things can get contentious here sometimes but basically everyone here are very thoughtful, caring individuals. And mostly good folk (although we do get trolls wondering in from time to time). If you're at all into questioning accepted beliefs, this is the place for you!
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I've only once had somebody tell me, "I'll pray for you", but she seemed like such a nice, friendly person that I just sort of smiled and pretended she hadn't said anything.

Later on, though, I thought about it a little bit more. At first it was a response that I didn't like, but then I thought, why not? Please do pray for me - if it _does_ do anything, I really want it to work. I don't believe that it _will_ do anything, but you're welcome to try.

Now, I feel the need to formulate it into some sort of snappy comeback.
"Go for it. Hasn't worked yet, but maybe you're better at praying."
 
gopi said:
Now, I feel the need to formulate it into some sort of snappy comeback.
"Go for it. Hasn't worked yet, but maybe you're better at praying."
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How about: "The sign of true insanity is to repeat an action over and over expecting a different result."
 
qayak said:
How about: "The sign of true insanity is to repeat an action over and over expecting a different result."
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That's great! Hee hee!
But I see how sometimes saying nothing and just thanking someone when they are just trying to be really nice can be called for. But for the rest of them, you know, the Sylvia Browne types who say it trying to be all high and mighty...:D
 
brooklyn44 said:
Now. when people close to me (mostly family) try to tell me about their "lucky numbers" or why homeopathy is misunderstood and really quite helpful for ...name the disease...or why the beauty of the grand canyon proves the existence of god, or very "sensitive" mediums can communicate with the dead, THEN i do try to engage them in a logical conversation. i must admit, however, i am usually not successful in pointing out logical fallacies. and i don't push too hard to rupture the family ties.
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I've lost one friend because of her veritable religious belief in medical woo (seriously, when I criticized homeopathy and the majority of naturopathy as scams in a journal post, she described in graphic terms how she wanted to see me die).

I'm usually good at pointing out the logical fallacies; but that doesn't always worke, either. I had another friend, who has gone through cancer treatment and who is currently seeing a naturopath for post-chemo treatment (fortunately, she hasn't abandoned her real doctor) tell me flat out "my health is too important to risk because of some abstract point of logic". How do you answer something like that?
 
luchog said:
I'm usually good at pointing out the logical fallacies; but that doesn't always worke, either. I had another friend, who has gone through cancer treatment and who is currently seeing a naturopath for post-chemo treatment (fortunately, she hasn't abandoned her real doctor) tell me flat out "my health is too important to risk because of some abstract point of logic". How do you answer something like that?
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Wow, that WOULD be hard to answer. All I can think of is to say that actual records of successful treatment aren't abstract points. The numbers don't lie. Homeopathic and naturopathic treatments simply have not been proven to work. Again, that is not an abstract point of logic.
I hope your friend recovers. She may have a good chance because she kept her real doctor. I guess if the other guy helps her attitude then you both can just be grateful for any comfort she receives from such "treatment."
 
She may have a good chance because she kept her real doctor. I guess if the other guy helps her attitude then you both can just be grateful for any comfort she receives from such "treatment."
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Yeah, and if she recovers fully, guess who she'll give the credit to and recommend to everyone :( It won't be the MD and his/her "poisons", it will be the quack who supposedly healed her body of the MD's recommended "poisons".
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I have the most difficulty with situations where you're assumed to be a believer. I'm not tremendously assertive, but I do enjoy a good debate. As mentioned here, lots of believers take "debate" to mean "you're being negative" or "why are you attacking me?". So basically, keep quiet and let them assume you share their beliefs, or say something, and be branded as an aggressor.
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I live in the Bible Belt, and we are all assumed to be believers! And shame on you if you are not!

JoeTheJuggler said:
So in the situation where you're assumed to be a believer, do you let it go, or risk the hostility?
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IRL, I let it go about 90% of the time. I am a closet skeptic! However, I do take Christians to task when they say hypocritical things, things that make no sense within the framework of their own religion.

JoeTheJuggler said:
What if, rather than being on the subject of belief and rationality it were about racism? (You know what I mean--because I'm white, I've had people talk with me assuming I share their same hateful mindset with regards to African-Americans. Similarly, I've had other guys assume that because I'm male I'd enjoy talking about women as if they were objects.)
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The Christians in my family have the typical anti-Christian views on homosexuality, and I take them all to task for that every single time they open their mouths about it.

And yes, I speak up when racist comments are made. I work with the poor and indigent, so often I stick up for them, as well. Heck, I even argued with a coworker yesterday because he was mad that another worker took off yesterday. I said, "Do you think YOU would be so eager to be back at work if YOUR father just died?"

I guess I just try to get the other person to see a different point of view, walk a mile in someone else's shoes, that sort of thing. I must be a real pain to be around!

But for the most part, regarding the existence of god, I keep quiet. I feel guilty that I don't believe; it is that ingrained in us around here. I did tell a coworker, who had just thanked god, that there was no god, just to test the waters. She looked at me horrified, so I just laughed. She laughed, too. What a kidder I am! Ha ha ha!
 
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