LCFC - Coming soon to a cinema near you...

[LashL]

Is it true that people were chanting "murderer" outside Larry Silverstien's office ?

Yes, it's true. A bunch of "troofers" actually did that. They even videotaped it. Apparently, they're proud of themselves for that.

Go figure.

Yet, I offered to help them out with their alleged "evidence" and I offered to interview their alleged witnesses, and haven't had a single response.

Go figure.

For the record, Russell, since you've been posting on this thread for the past couple of hours and haven't responded, here it is again:

Gravy,

Imagine that I am the District Attorney and prove to me explosives were not used.

I have:

1) 40 some firefighter witnesses.

2) Video of squibs similar to CD.

3) 3 steel frame buildings that collapsed straight down all on the same day in the same place for the first time in history. At least one not hit by a plane.

4) Civilian eyewitnesses who reported explosions.

5) A non explanation of WTC 7 from FEMA.

P.S. Don't bring your NIST reports because they are not admissible as evidence in a court. They also failed to test for explosives even if they were.

Russell

Answer:

Here's a better idea, Russell.

Take your evidence to a D.A. instead of just posting vague non-evidence ad infinitum on internet forums.

If you cannot or will not do so, here's an alternative proposition. I will take it to a D.A. for you.

Here's all you have to do. Present your evidence to me in good faith (privately, if you wish) and I will, in good faith, assess it, interview all of those you identify as potential witnesses and present all of the evidence and verbatim transcripts of all of the interviews in their entirety to the D.A. on your behalf if you are unable or unwilling to do so yourself.

To facilitate this, and following your numbering scheme above, all you have to do is:

1) Provide me with the statements or willsays or contact information of your 40 witnesses and I will interview each and every one of them and pass all of the details on to the D.A.

2) Provide the video, and a willsay or contact information of the expert witness who will be back up the assertion that the video shows "squibs similar to CD" and I'll interview the expert you suggest, and pass all of the details on to the D.A.

3) Well, aside from the obvious fact that they didn't collapse "straight down", I will pass on the videos or other evidence that you submit and will pass on the information that the unprecedented events of September 11, 2001 were indeed unprecedented. Of course, the D.A. will also consider all of the unprecedented events of that day and not only the ones that you think point to a conspiracy, but I will still gladly pass this all on.

4) Provide me with the statements or contact information of the civilians you refer to and I will interview each and every one of them and pass the information on to the D.A.

5) I will provide the D.A. with the early FEMA report and the later NIST report and the numerous statements of others at the scene, in the interests of full disclosure. Please pass along the names and contact information of anyone else whose evidence you wish to add to this point and I will interview each and every one of them personally, and pass that along too.

6) *this was your P.S., not numbered, but I numbered it for consistency*. You're wrong about this. The NIST reports are most assuredly admissible as evidence in a criminal trial. So don't fret over that. I'll pass those on the D.A. too.

See? Very, very little work on your part. A huge amount of work on my part. But I'm willing to put your evidence to the test. Are you?

Here's an even better answer on a whole new thread dedicated to it, to which you have also failed to respond, Russell:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67599

The offer is to take your evidence, conduct interviews of all of your witnesses, provide tapes and transcripts pf same, package everything up professionally and within all of the relevant rules of procedure, and present it all to a D.A. on your behalf.

You don't have to lift a finger except to provide contact information and links or docs that you wish to add to the package for the D.A.

This thread originates from a post by Russell Pickering and my response to it on another thread. In a nutshell, Russell put forward a scenario about presenting evidence to a D.A. and I offered to take all of the evidence he purports to have, assess it, interview all of the witnesses and present it all to a D.A.

<removed for duplication>

I responded to his post, offering to take his evidence, interview all of the potential witnesses, and take all of the results to a D.A.

The following is a slightly edited version of my original post in response to Russell's, edited only to remove anything that could be viewed as provisional because I want it to be clear that I make this offer without what might have been perceived as reservations by anyone looking for an out, and because I don't know the code that makes the text appear with letters and words struck out to make it obvious on its face.

Here's a better idea, Russell.

I will take it to a D.A. for you.

Here's all you have to do. Present your evidence to me in good faith (privately, if you wish) and I will, in good faith, assess it, interview all of those you identify as potential witnesses and present all of the evidence and verbatim transcripts of all of the interviews in their entirety to the D.A. on your behalf.

To facilitate this, and following your numbering scheme above, all you have to do is:

1) Provide me with the statements or willsays or contact information of your 40 witnesses and I will interview each and every one of them and pass all of the details on to the D.A.

2) Provide the video, and a willsay or contact information of the expert witness who will back up the assertion that the video shows "squibs similar to CD" and I'll interview the expert you suggest, and pass all of the details on to the D.A.

3) Well, aside from the obvious fact that they didn't collapse "straight down", I will pass on the videos or other evidence that you submit and will pass on the information that the unprecedented events of September 11, 2001 were indeed unprecedented. Of course, the D.A. will also consider all of the unprecedented events of that day and not only the ones that you think point to a conspiracy, but I will still gladly pass this all on.

4) Provide me with the statements or contact information of the civilians you refer to and I will interview each and every one of them and pass the information on to the D.A.

5) I will provide the D.A. with the early FEMA report and the later NIST report and the numerous statements of others at the scene, in the interests of full disclosure. Please pass along the names and contact information of anyone else whose evidence you wish to add to this point and I will interview each and every one of them personally, and pass that along too.

6) *this was your P.S., not numbered, but I numbered it for consistency*. You're wrong about this. The NIST reports are most assuredly admissible as evidence in a criminal trial. So don't fret over that. I'll pass those on the D.A. too.

See? Very, very little work on your part. A huge amount of work on my part. But I'm willing to put your evidence to the test. Are you?


There was no response to my offer on the original thread by Russell of any other CTer but, to be fair, Russell may well have been offline and may not have seen the original posts by the time I started this new thread.

But since I have to go out of town on Wednesday and won't be able to get back to the forum until Thursday evening at earliest, I thought it best to start a new thread so that his original post and my offer do not get lost among the hundreds of posts on the thread in which they first appeared.

So, there you have it, Russell and other CTers. I am offering to do all of the work, free of charge, and I will also provide you with tapes and transcripts of each and every interview for your review before presenting the entire package to a D.A., and the package will be in full compliance with all of the relevant rules of procedure.

I can't imagine that you would turn down such an offer, but do let me know. We can work out any other necessary terms, of course.


So, to reiterate: I'm willing to put your evidence to the test. Are you?











P.S. Again, since I haven't figured out the code for striking out letters and just so that it's all clear and above board, the original is here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=373

Now, I really have to get some sleep, but - once again, for perhaps the fourth time now without response - I'll be back on Thursday. I'm hoping that Russell or some other CTer will take me up on this by then.

I won't hold my breath, though.

 

[Moving On]

Is it true that people were chanting "murderer" outside Larry Silverstien's office ?

I am trying to have a serious conversation and answer questions on something I do know a little about.

Please do not distract it with something I had nothing to do with or would never do myself.

fair?

Thanks.

 

[W6102LA]

I am trying to have a serious conversation and answer questions on something I do know a little about.

Please do not distract it with something I had nothing to do with or would never do myself.

fair?

Thanks.

May i remind you of the topic of this thread, a movie that you are doing research for are you not?

LCFC - Coming soon to a cinema near you...

 

[R.Mackey]

Yes. At least one aircraft tire appears in photos of the A-E drive. I don't know if it was attached to the wheel.

I actually knew that, but I'm just taking this one step at a time. Might call on you for some additional evidence, though. Russell's links indicate no such debris was found, in fact calls attention to that point, a discrepancy that I consider potentially significant.

 

[Moving On]

Yes. At least one aircraft tire appears in photos of the A-E drive. I don't know if it was attached to the wheel.

The main gear of a 757 was found back inside the building in the same area of the exit hole (50-75 feet away). I have talked with the person who found it and took the original photos.

The rim was originally inside the building and brought out. It did not sustain damage that indicated penetrating the wall in addition to my knowledge of where it was originally found.

 

[LashL]

May i remind you of the topic of this thread, a movie that you are doing research for ?

LCFC - Coming soon to a cinema near you...

I don't think he likes to be reminded of that as it is too embarrassing.

But he does seem to like pretending to be distracted by "important" things such as the LC movie while ignoring the fact that he claimed to have dozens and dozens of witnesses and while he raised the subject of taking evidence to a DA, and then completely ignored legitimate offers to take his alleged evidence to a DA for him.

Oh, wait. Russell's a "legitimate" "researcher", right? I'm sure he'll respond eventually and proffer those witnesses for me to interview so that I can take their evidence to a D.A. Come on, he's sure that 9/11 was an inside job, after all. What possible reason could he have not to want it proven when I'm offering to do all of the work for him and his fellow travellers?

 

[Moving On]

Yes, it's true. A bunch of "troofers" actually did that. They even videotaped it. Apparently, they're proud of themselves for that.

Go figure.

Yet, I offered to help them out with their alleged "evidence" and I offered to interview their alleged witnesses, and haven't had a single response.

Go figure.

For the record, Russell, since you've been posting on this thread for the past couple of hours and haven't responded, here it is again:




Answer:



Here's an even better answer on a whole new thread dedicated to it, to which you have also failed to respond, Russell:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67599



Now, I really have to get some sleep, but - once again, for perhaps the fourth time now without response - I'll be back on Thursday. I'm hoping that Russell or some other CTer will take me up on this by then.

I won't hold my breath, though.

I will respond to you. I am waiting for inquiries from NIST and the 9/11 Commission board first. I am also submitting one to FEMA.

 

[Moving On]

May i remind you of the topic of this thread, a movie that you are doing research for are you not?

Will you please ask R. Mackey if I am responding to his questions?

 

[Gravy]

If there were 5 other people on board the plane...

Just to fill in a blank here, two of the "five" were identified by DNA as brothers. The only brothers who died at the Pentagon? Hijackers Nawaf and Salem al-Hazmi.

 

[Mince]

I would also think a very dedicated and experienced military pilot that was an anti-terrorism strategist and Naval Intelligence reserve officer that was a liaison to the Pentagon and worked in the offices that were impacted until 1996 as well as his former co-workers, would have either used one of his methods of activating the mic to announce a super quick MAYDAY, activated the hijack transponder code, or taken "evasive" action during the first seconds of the incident. His family has even expressed surprise that he was overtaken.

Perhaps. But we don't know the circumstances. Strapped in to his Captain's seat. Maybe his throat was cut before he knew what was happening. Maybe he believed the terrorists had a bomb and any aggressive action would cost many lives in his charge. Emergency transponder codes are four digits in length. If he was being assailed, changing the code would actually take an eternity. If someone approaches you at unawares and commands you to remain still lest he shoot you, are you going to risk action, or remain idle and hope you live through the experience? We know differently now; but not then. This is all speculation of course, as nobody left alive knows what happened in that cockpit.

Anyway, we're talking about a scenario with no terrorists.

I hate to say it but gas is a possibility, but even for me is a little too "mission impossiblish".

This is the only plausible scenario, absent terrorists.

 

[Moving On]

I don't think he likes to be reminded of that as it is too embarrassing.

But he does like pretending to be distracted by "important" things like the LC movie while ignoring the fact that he claimed to have dozens and dozens of witnesses and while he raised the subject of taking evidence to a DA, and then completely ignores a legitimate offer to take his alleged evidence to a DA for him.

Gee, how surprising.

Obviously you've decide to disregard our "friendly" agree to disagree understanding.

You are free to unleash on me as you wish.

But for professional appearance can you mitigate your emotions a little bit please?

I did not raise the topic of the DA, Gravy did and I responded in kind.

I have never believed there will be substantial legal action taken and that has never been a goal of mine.

 

[R.Mackey]

1) I don't know. Video has been suppressed. It makes no sense to me either. The video that has been released has been reduced and compressed to the point of uselessness.

Well, if you can't come up with a scenario in which the suppressed video, if found, would indicate something different than the Official Theory, I'll have to conclude it's a non-issue.

There are plenty of mundane reasons why it wouldn't be released (we need not use the pejorative "suppressed" unless we know that is more accurate). Quite a lot of evidence was initially locked away thinking confidentiality would be essential for use in future trials. Others may have been collected too hastily, potentially creating Fourth Amendment problems or exposing the Government to lawsuits if they became public domain. This is mildly interesting, but not definitive evidence of any coverup, let alone one blaming the Government for Sept. 11.

2) As I said part of this requires anonymity. The key is that with no safety issues long after the scene was secure they were not allowed back at the exit hole.

Yes, I read that, and read the engineer's quote. I still don't see anything suspicious. Have you ever taken place in an accident investigation? They're often limited by normal constraints -- money, time, availability of personnel, etc. The events you list above seem completely ordinary.

Denial of access is only significant if (a) the ASCE demanded to see certain areas and were refused, (b) the ASCE was unable to gather required data that could only be obtained from those areas, and (c) the ASCE could not reach a conclusion through other means.

In essence, you are accusing the ASCE of falsifying their report. In the spirit of completeness, they describe practical limits on their access and report it faithfully, but nowhere do they indicate this was critical to their investigation. That would be a grave omission. I need to see more evidence before I'm willing to accuse ASCE of participating willfully in a whitewash.

Grumbling is not evidence either. Members of the ASCE might have disliked the policies of Pentagon staffers, but that would not inherently make their conclusions any less valid.

I work for NASA, and you should hear the crap I have to go through to visit a different NASA center. It's lame, it's life, and it has nothing to do with a coverup.

3) I talked with many people who were in and out of that hole. I talked with some that were the first allowed in on the 12th for official duties. There was no significantly sized aircraft debris in the A/E Drive.

This is in agreement with the private conversations I have had.

3) You would have to read the exit hole page in detail. Don't skip over it and then ask questions please. I am aware of a couple of errors, one regarding the "rebar" I mentioned that is not actually rebar. My belief about the exit hole does not immediately make sense in light of a plane also hitting the building.

See above. I believe there was significant debris found in the area of the exit hole. But before I hunt for proof, I wanted to make it absolutely clear that you believe there was no large debris found there, nothing that was an obvious impactor at the site of the exit hole.

I did only skim the exit hole page and will read it in more detail. Nonetheless, I stand behind my observation that the roundness of the hole is entirely expected for a wide variety of impacts. I'll go back and look for more details.

 

[Moving On]

Do you guys have a notification system for arriving to distract conversion as a group?

 

[W6102LA]

Will you please ask R. Mackey if I am responding to his questions?

My questions are related to the topic of the thread, if you want to discuss the Pentagon crash indepth i suggest you start a new thread

 

[Moving On]

Perhaps. But we don't know the circumstances. Strapped in to his Captain's seat. Maybe his throat was cut before he knew what was happening. Maybe he believed the terrorists had a bomb and any aggressive action would cost many lives in his charge. Emergency transponder codes are four digits in length. If he was being assailed, changing the code would actually take an eternity. If someone approaches you at unawares and commands you to remain still lest he shoot you, are you going to risk action, or remain idle and hope you live through the experience? We know differently now; but not then. This is all speculation of course, as nobody left alive knows what happened in that cockpit.

Anyway, we're talking about a scenario with no terrorists.



This is the only plausible scenario, absent terrorists.

What are the methods for activating the cockpit microphone?

 

[Moving On]

Just to fill in a blank here, two of the "five" were identified by DNA as brothers. The only brothers who died at the Pentagon? Hijackers Nawaf and Salem al-Hazmi.

Can you link me to that please?

 

[LashL]

I will respond to you. I am waiting for inquiries from NIST and the 9/11 Commission board first. I am also submitting one to FEMA.

Oh, please. Drop the drama queen routine, already.

Your response to my straightforward post should and would have been pretty straightforward. Pretending that it requires a response to whatever you might be submitting to NIST and the 9/11 Commission and FEMA before you respond is just ridiculous.

 

[Mince]

What are the methods for activating the cockpit microphone?

I do not know. If you're talking about the CVR, nothing. It's always on. If you're talking about a radio, I assume he would key a microphone perhaps attached to headgear. But if I'm being assailed with a sharp blade, I deal with that situation first and worry about communication later. No radio call would have saved him from the assault.

 

[uk_dave]

Or someone yanks off his headset?

 

[Moving On]

See above. I believe there was significant debris found in the area of the exit hole. But before I hunt for proof, I wanted to make it absolutely clear that you believe there was no large debris found there, nothing that was an obvious impactor at the site of the exit hole.

I did only skim the exit hole page and will read it in more detail. Nonetheless, I stand behind my observation that the roundness of the hole is entirely expected for a wide variety of impacts. I'll go back and look for more details.

I do NOT in any way believe the ASCE engineers were involved. They tried and were refused.

"The teams attempted to inspect and photograph all columns with significant visible damage......" PLEASE read the link below to see why they were not allowed to visit or photograph the exit hole to understand why the said "attempted". I am trying to be direct and subtle at the same time here.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/105.html

They were fed false information. I have spoke with an engineer involved. Not their fault.

Every known unique photo of the exit hole is on my page. There are some that are redundant I haven't posted. I have been refused larger versions of some by the ACFD and the USG.