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Why do lesbians look like men?

Sure there is, they are asthetics to be persued. It is like asking anyone what someone looks like and what classifications they dress in. It has limited value to those not involved, but it is of some importance.

I get what you're saying, but if I was asked to describe myself in 50 words or less, my sexuality wouldn't enter into the description, much less how I classify my looks/appearance/choice of attire. I'd say that if one is going through life and their defining characteristic is 'I dress like a (insert stereotypical group here)' that's a pretty unfulfilled life. Perhaps I shouldn't have been QUITE so dismissive, but on a scale of importance & relevance I think one's clothing style / image they choose to project is pretty low.
 
I'm actually a Lesbian trapped in the body of a man.....

We all are, and lipstick lesbians at that. Sadly, here's what you'd probably turn into:

avatar631_1.gif
==> http://www.lookadoo.com/images/mimi.jpg
 
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I don't think she suggested that "all 'sissy boys' grow up to be mincing Quentin Crisp caricatures"; I think she suggested that mincing Quentin Crisp caricatures exist within the gay community. And that's obviously true. Here's the quote in case you've forgotten:

Quote:
Amongst male gays, there are clearly very effeminate men who often manifest early in life. (so-called "sissy boys") These individuals often have a variety of manifestations including high voices, mannerisms, walks, and so forth.

Now, of course, if you go looking for "gays" (for whatever reason), the caricatures are very easy to spot. My gaydar isn't very good, but even I can spot the mincing flaming nancy. And since that's about all I can spot, I've got good reason to believe that all gays are like that. This is the well known fallacy of "argument by being too dumb to recognize the counterexamples."

I interpreted the quoted statement as meaning - if you 'manifest' early in life as a so-called sissy boy, then you are going to grow into an effeminate man with the various characteristics described.

My counter-argument is that many boys are 'sissies' (examples - play with dolls, play dress-up, avoid physical confrontations, prefer less physical and rough/tumble sports) - however may not necessarily grow up to be gay, much less the caricature painted by the OP. I think studies indicate that many gay men (unknown how these men are stereotyped) MAY have had some of these childhood experiences, but I read the original post as painting far too broad a mauve brush.
 
I get what you're saying, but if I was asked to describe myself in 50 words or less, my sexuality wouldn't enter into the description, much less how I classify my looks/appearance/choice of attire. I'd say that if one is going through life and their defining characteristic is 'I dress like a (insert stereotypical group here)' that's a pretty unfulfilled life. Perhaps I shouldn't have been QUITE so dismissive, but on a scale of importance & relevance I think one's clothing style / image they choose to project is pretty low.

Oh I agree with you, but it is sociologically important, as dress is a main way that groups can create a clear identity. Studying what people do in American can be as interesting as say all those bare breasted African women in national geographic(well at least if they are bare breasted it might be).

I am not defending the original poster, but looking into other groups/cultures is not something that I think should be actively discouraged.
 
I interpreted the quoted statement as meaning - if you 'manifest' early in life as a so-called sissy boy, then you are going to grow into an effeminate man with the various characteristics described.

My counter-argument is that many boys are 'sissies' (examples - play with dolls, play dress-up, avoid physical confrontations, prefer less physical and rough/tumble sports) - however may not necessarily grow up to be gay, much less the caricature painted by the OP. I think studies indicate that many gay men (unknown how these men are stereotyped) MAY have had some of these childhood experiences, but I read the original post as painting far too broad a mauve brush.

I do remember hearing that most/more effeminate boys turn into homosexual men instead of transexuals. Not sure if that is really important here though.
 
Urgh. I don't often bear a grudge against other posters, but may I just remind the audience that Polaris seems to be living on another planet when women are concerned. Polaris, you may not be a troll, but your posts in the thread titled "I so totally do not understand girls" were the most misogynistic crap I have ever read in my life. So, it does not surprise me that he was making sweeping generalisations based on a sample of only a few women.

Polaris's quotes from that thread on page five:

WOW! That brings a whole new light to Polaris. About the only thing he didn't say was that the woman he's looking for should be a midget (so she won't have to kneel) with a flat head (so he can set his beer down).

To be fair though, I'm one of those "pussi-fied" men he's talking about. I love poetry. I'm an artist. I have friends in the symphony and the theater. I "understand" ballet and once devoted tons of time to dance lessons . . .

Speaking of dance lessons, I once studied flamenco and took a lot of ribbing (no, not THAT kind) from guy friends and family. They got angry when I turned it around on them and asked, "which is more gay; spending Saturdays and Sundays getting drunk with a bunch of men while you slap each other on the ass everytime your team does something good, or dancing close with a bunch of beautiful women who are sweaty and breathing hard?
 
We all are, and lipstick lesbians at that. Sadly, here's what you'd probably turn into:

[qimg]http://206.225.95.123/forumlive/customavatars/avatar631_1.gif[/qimg] ==> [qimg]http://www.lookadoo.com/images/mimi.jpg[/qimg]



ARRRGGHHHH! MY EYES!

I thought she was a transvestite. :)
 
"which is more gay; spending Saturdays and Sundays getting drunk with a bunch of men while you slap each other on the ass everytime your team does something good, or dancing close with a bunch of beautiful women who are sweaty and breathing hard?

Uhhhhhhh, we high five each other. I'm not sure what your friends are doing, but the image just made me bust out laughing.
 
Why do heterosexual women look like heterosexual women?

(My question is just as silly)
 
Uhhhhhhh, we high five each other. I'm not sure what your friends are doing, but the image just made me bust out laughing.

:) Well, they certainly didn't burst out laughing.

They got all kinds of defensive and cited "male-bonding" (something they normally would have scoffed at) and the "physical" culture of the male.

They got even more upset when I winked at that comment.

I'll take flamenco over football any day!
 
:) Well, they certainly didn't burst out laughing.

They got all kinds of defensive and cited "male-bonding" (something they normally would have scoffed at) and the "physical" culture of the male.

They got even more upset when I winked at that comment.

I'll take flamenco over football any day!

Just to clarify, I wasn't laughing at you dancing, but them slapping each other on the ass. I also like to take my woman to things that men are usually forced to do. I'm no good at dancing though. I'm clumsy as hell.
 
My post was quickly tossed off and only partially influenced by long observation of humans.

I have done a fair bit of reading on human sexuality and forensic sexology, mostly in line with my profession. (law enforcement)
At one time or another, I read most of the late John Money's books on paraphilia, forensic sexology, and others.

Of course we know that homosexuality is not classified as a paraphilia. However, the causative factors are largely unknown. Researchers suspect a genetic component, developmental components, and possibly even post-birth experiences of an unknown nature.
The discussion was about physical types. It's certainly observable that within the broad range of homosexuality, there exist certain physical characteristics which are almost stereotypical.
The fact that some of these characteristics manifest early in life seems to indicate that they are not socially aquired. At least one researcher has written a book on this phenomenon:
http://www.amazon.com/Sissy-Boy-Syn...ef=sr_1_1/102-9928136-6293719?ie=UTF8&s=books

All this is not particularly useful, since only a percentage of homosexual individuals are involved. However, it does tend to lend credence to the idea of a developmental component.
 
MEN HAVE PENISES AND WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS. For starters.

Right. But I think the expression "Love at first sight of genitalia" is underutilized for a reason. If you are attracted to feminine looking women (or macho looking men) I don't think it should spark a crisis in sexual identity to admit having occasionally done a double take at someone you didn't know had the wrong genitalia (but who externally looked like what you are attracted to).

Take this person with a penis:

http://www.vixen-escorts.com/danisha001.jpg
 
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Right. But I think the expression "Love at first sight of genitalia" is underutilized for a reason. If you are attracted to feminine looking women (or macho looking men) I don't think it should spark a crisis in sexual identity to admit having occasionally done a double take at someone you didn't know had the wrong genitalia (but who externally looked like what you are attracted to).

Take this person with a penis:

http://www.vixen-escorts.com/danisha001.jpg

And? I'm sure a fair amount of normal straight men would find her very attractive until reaching the penis, at which point I would expect a good number of them to run away screaming. Are you suggesting that lesbians who date other butch lesbians are under the impression that their dates are actually men with penises?
 
I agree with everyone else, you should try to widen your pool of lesbian acquaintances. You should never rely on stereotypes to "think" you've got a group down pat. I've known lesbians who are jaw-dropping gorgeous (and feminine). Lesbians don't all look like Rosie O'Donnell.

And even so, does Rosie ODonnell look like a guy? I just thought she was an ugly woman?

My anecdotes: two lesbian friends in college, one more boyish looking, but nothing butch, and the other was as woman as could be.

Second, a few years ago I went to a performance by a "lesbian dance group" from Seattle. A group of about 2 dozen, and you wouldn't know any were lesbians by looking (although if you have a dance good eye, you could have guessed that they were selected from a restricted size group - their dancing abilities were not up to normal nationwide professional standards. However, it would take a pretty experienced eye to see that. Also, you wouldn't know WHAT the restriction on the group would be - it could be that they all had to be from Seattle, for example, and it wasn't nationwide.)
 
And? I'm sure a fair amount of normal straight men would find her very attractive until reaching the penis, at which point I would expect a good number of them to run away screaming. Are you suggesting that lesbians who date other butch lesbians are under the impression that their dates are actually men with penises?

As a wierd question, what do people think would happen if a lesbian found out that the butch she was with was really a man?(admittedly this is highly unlikely)
 
Boys and girls, but not together...me and Mamie O'Rorke

From living most of my life in New York City, and eight years in the Navy, I know that the stereotypes about gays and lesbians are not true.

Yes, I've met up with my share of stereotypical gay men and lesbian women, guys who were delighted to do the dishes and clean up after dinner, and women who were physically tougher (with deeper voices) than most of the male Marines I knew.

I also knew gays and lesbians who fit no stereotypes. In high school, I once asked out a girl who said she'd be delighted to go out with me...to a lesbian rights rally. I thought she was giving me the ultimate heave-ho, but sure enough, she soon turned up at school leading the gay and lesbian club, wearing a button that read, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." She sought to raise my consciousness. I wanted her to raise other things. We stayed friends, united by baseball.

At the same time, a group of 13-year-olds was running around the West Village, stomping gays and persons they presumed to be gay. I was one of the latter, and one of their victims. They were busy proving to the world that they were not gay, but could not do so by simply dating girls, as that was "sissy" or "unmanly." They proved they were straight by beating up suspected gays.

Their reign of terror ran around the Village, as they chose gays who could not fight back. Their mistake was to jump a pair of gay men who were into leather, weights, body-building, and big muscles. The two gays promptly beat the living tar out of the entire gang. When the gang leader saw his boys being turned to hamburger, he ran as fast as his legs could take him back to mommy, leaving his buddies there to die gloriously for their alleged tradition. That was the end of that gang.

Another group that bashed suspect gays regularly was led by a rought, tough macho chap with the same theory: don't date girls, just beat up suspects. However, this group's other hobby was a form of competitive self-pleasuring in the boys' room at school, which I discovered by mistake one day when I went to use the john. The guys pulled up their pants and told me in no uncertain terms to forget what I saw. I didn't even understand what I saw, but I developed constipation for the next two years.

A year after that, I was walking past the church across the street from our apartment, which was used by the gay community for events, carrying the groceries, when I heard my name called out. Slowly I turned. There was the leading gay-basher of this second group, now looking more "metrosexual," with his boyfriend. They were about to attend an event at the church. They had discovered their "true selves."

"Would you like to come in," the former gay-basher cooed. "We really liked you."

I backed off, shaking my head. Suddenly I understood why I had seen this guy beating up gays, never with a girl, and with his pants down. The biggest gay-basher of the school was covering up the biggest secret in school.

Life is complex, and that's why conspiracy theories are popular...they make a complex, random, bizarre, and difficult-to-explain world rational, comprehensible, and simple -- while divesting the theorist of responsibility and accountability for his own works.
 

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