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Answer to the Bomb-Fairy? Please give me your thoughts

Oliver

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17,396
New Idea to the Bomb-Issue - Please give me your thoughts

Maybe it´s proofable if there where bombs
or not. William Rodriguez talked (and (s)ome
others i dont remind) about the elevator doors,
wich were blown open.

Working 20 Years in the Building, William and
other people should remind which specific
elevator doors were blown.

If not all elevators did reach entireley to the
floors where the planes hit, these doors
should´nt have been blown during the
fireball walking down the shafts, am i right?

It would be helpfull to have blueprints or
someone who knows the towers like Willi.

Regards,
Oliver
 
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Maybe it´s proofable if there where bombs
or not. William Rodriguez talked (and (s)ome
others i dont remind) about the elevator doors,
wich were blown open.

If not all elevators did reach entireley to the
floors where the planes hit, these doors
should´nt have been blown during the
fireball walking down the shafts, am i right?


Not all elevators served all floors but the shafts went from top to bottom. The only floors the shafts could've been topped off at were the maintenance floors and I doubt they did.

Further the shafts were enclosed in 2 layers of drywall, NOT concrete or other material. This means when the plane plowed into the core it probably blew the walls off all the shafts in the area it hit (if they had doors or not). At this point fireballs could go down any shaft and blow out doors on any floor (or the walls if there were no floors).

Here are some typical floor plans. I believe the big shafts are the express elevators you could take to a sky lobby, where you would catch the local elevator to the exact floor you needed. The smaller shafts are the local elevators. Note by flipping the restroom locations on each floor you can expose different sets of elevators to exit on that floor.

57894500af25e5378.png

57894500af258f4b5.png
 
Not all elevators served all floors but the shafts went from top to bottom. The only floors the shafts could've been topped off at were the maintenance floors and I doubt they did......

Hello Kevin,

so any shaft did go from the top to the bottom, am
i right? Is this for sure?

I swear i´ve seen an computer generated animation
in one of the 9/11 movies out there with the elevators
shown and explained, but i don´t know wich it was.

There must be some very logic proof to this bomb
thing. Please keep this in mind if you read some
stuff about the elevators. I try my best to get further
information.
 
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technically not all the shafts had to go all the way up. 2/3 may have only gone part way, but I'm not sure they constructed it that way. Below is a vertical representation. Notice that the building is divided in 3rds and then 4 banks of elevators serve each 3rd. They could've topped off the elevator shafts for the ones serving lower floors in that section, but I don't think they did.

The reason I don't think they did is because I think they located all the elevator equipment on the technical services floors and the elevator cables would've needed to go from that floor to the elevators. If they had topped off the elevators the equipment would've needed to be located on various floors and special power run to those floors and maintenance done on the occupied floors annoying the occupants.

They also could've sealed the shafts at the technical floors, but again I don't think they did just because I don't see a reason they would (they probably did have drywall around the shafts to maintain air pressure).

57894500bfebb7909.jpg
 
Thank you very much, Kevin.

I´ve found that video about the shafts and
also a bigger version of the illustration on
wikipedia

Illustration:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Design_with_Floor_and_Elevator_Arrangment.jpg

The video was: Rise and Fall of an American Icon

Quote:

"The Tube design was an innovated concept, but
in practise, the elevators would have taken to
much space. Seeking a solution, designers devided
each tower into three parts, or zones. Each with
it´s own skylobby. People would be able to get
to work by taking an express, and then a local
elevator"

"---to much space---" This pretty sounds like the
local elevator shafts did not went all the way from
the top to the bottom.
 
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General Question:

Who´s the most familiar person in here
regarding the the two towers and it´s
inner structure?
 
Maybe it´s proofable if there where bombs
or not. William Rodriguez talked (and (s)ome
others i dont remind) about the elevator doors,
wich were blown open.

Working 20 Years in the Building, William and
other people should remind which specific
elevator doors were blown.

If not all elevators did reach entireley to the
floors where the planes hit, these doors
should´nt have been blown during the
fireball walking down the shafts, am i right?

It would be helpfull to have blueprints or
someone who knows the towers like Willi.

Regards,
Oliver

William Rodriguez has changed his story since he brought a lawsuit against the government.

His initial story was much different than his later versions of events. I wouldn't put too much stock in him if I were you.

By the way, there is a grave misconception about the layout of the elevators in the WTC towers. People look at a schematic that has been widely distributed and think that it actually shows all of the elevators but if you bother to count them, it shows no more than 15 of the 99 or 100 that were actually in each tower. The schematic is merely representative, not comprehensive.

The drawing I refer to is this:

111034500e7659ce20.jpg


For instance, there were 12 elevator cars that ran express from the 78th floor to the lobby (powered by a massive bank of elevator machines on the 81st floor) but many people think that there is only 1 because the representational drawing only shows 1. This is a good example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". It is beyond dispute that there were 12, not 1, and it is beyond dispute that the drawing is merely representational, but people who do not delve beyond the surface (read: conspiracy theorists) will misinterpret reality all day long rather than actually do any real research themselves.

People also are mistaken about the shafts, probably because they look at that same graphic and do not realize that on each floor, there were multiple elevator cars, not just one as depicted in the graphic.

As I understand it, the shafts themselves were uninterrupted from top to bottom, even though most of the elevators did not stop on every floor. The local elevator cars, then, could be "stacked" within the core space, with each of the local elevator cars programmed to stop only on certain floors. For instance, imagine that some of the local elevators stopped only on floors 20 through 30. The shafts would still have to run from the lobby, obviously, and could not just magically begin on floor 20.

It is the "stacking" arrangement that allowed them to fit 100 elevators into the core.

Moreover, the bulk of those shafts were open rather than sealed (but I'll get into the details of that later rather than put too much into this post), such that there were numerous elevators among the various lift mechanisms that were all in open "shafts" side by side ... i.e. not "hermetically sealed" or even non-hermetically sealed for that matter.

Also, remember that the entire diagram above is of the CORE, not the building, and remember that the rest of the space within the core where the elevators are located is just empty space, with nothing to stop the flow of liquids, such as jet fuel. The drawing may be misleading to those who don't know that because they will probably erroneously assume that lines drawn to delineate elevation are actual "floors" as in concrete and such, when, of course, there was no such division in the core. The lines are there only to denote elevation, not structure in the core, which was, of course, empty other than elevator shafts and staircases.

Repeat: remember, this is just the core - the out of sight, out of mind, space with nothing but stairs and elevators in it, and not the rentable space of the building.

I am told that all of the shafts actually ran from top to bottom, which makes perfect sense and no other arrangement would make any sense, frankly.

I will add more later about the mythical "hermetically sealed" shafts that the CTers like to cite. I am just awaiting confirmation of a couple of additional facts before posting it here.
 
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Hello Lash,

i really hope that you´re able to reach
someone regarding this shaft-question
and also someone who was there and
saw wich doors were blown out.

What about the official documents,
or "Yamasaki and Associates". Does
this firm still exist?

I´m sorry that my english skills are
not good enough to explain the issue
in a plausible, easy way to call these
people for my own.

Regards,
Oliver
 
Hello Lash,

i really hope that you´re able to reach
someone regarding this shaft-question
and also someone who was there and
saw wich doors were blown out.

What about the official documents,
or "Yamasaki and Associates". Does
this firm still exist?

I´m sorry that my english skills are
not good enough to explain the issue
in a plausible, easy way to call these
people for my own.

Regards,
Oliver

Oliver,
Your English skills are fine. Read my post again.
It is ludicrous to suggest that there was only "one elevator shaft" that ran the length of the building.

As I said above, CTers base their nonsensical claim on a drawing that, according to their interpretation, would mean that there were only 15 elevator cars, not the 100 elevator cars that actually existed, and their inability to research facts. But that's not terribly surpising since reality is not their strong point.
 
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Not all elevators served all floors but the shafts went from top to bottom. The only floors the shafts could've been topped off at were the maintenance floors and I doubt they did.

Further the shafts were enclosed in 2 layers of drywall, NOT concrete or other material. This means when the plane plowed into the core it probably blew the walls off all the shafts in the area it hit (if they had doors or not). At this point fireballs could go down any shaft and blow out doors on any floor (or the walls if there were no floors).

Here are some typical floor plans. I believe the big shafts are the express elevators you could take to a sky lobby, where you would catch the local elevator to the exact floor you needed. The smaller shafts are the local elevators. Note by flipping the restroom locations on each floor you can expose different sets of elevators to exit on that floor.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/57894500af25e5378.png[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/57894500af258f4b5.png[/qimg]

Yes, that is in keeping with the 12 express elevators from 78 down, and the general 6 per side per bank in the WTC towers.
 
I still have problems to realize how these shafts have
looked like but you´re right, i thought the illustration
shows the whole building and the specific arrangements
between the shafts.

I have to read your post again to get a usable "picture"
of the shafts configuration.

Who said that there was just one shaft? The LC-Video?
I remember that they talked about airsealed elevator,
but i don´t remind of only one shaft.

Thank you for your help to get thru of this,
Oliver
 
By the way - i´m to new to the 9/11 issue to
know about William Rodriguez initial story.

What were the differences between them
concerning the elevators?

I try to find the whole initial story of him
later.
 
I have some serious problems with the technical nature of
your description - besides the translation, LashL.

You said that there were 12 elevator cars that ran express from
the 78th floor to the lobby (powered by a massive bank of elevator
machines on the 81st floor. I got this.

Where were the mashinery to the local elevators located if
the shafts were uninterrupted? Also on top of the building,
right?

How is it possible to stack the elevators? I still have these
old style elevators in my mind: Mashinery on top (or level) and
the wires connected to the cabins/cars - nothing between,
no stacking at all.

You said: "It is ludicrous to suggest that there was only "
one elevator shaft" that ran the length of the building."

and:

"remember that the entire diagram above is of the CORE, not
the building, and remember that the rest of the space within
the core where the elevators are located is just empty space"

Sorry, i missed something between these two arguments.
The first description says, that there was no "one elevator
shaft" but your second description seems to say the opposite -
that the whole core was empty space with the elevators within
this empty space?

I´m really sorry to have difficulties to draw this picture
in my mind but for some, i think linguistic reasons, i can´t
puzzle it together.
 

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