kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2001
- Messages
- 15,936
Yes. I can very much understand it. You do not defend hard targets at the expense of the soft ones around it during peacetime.
Yes. I can very much understand it. You do not defend hard targets at the expense of the soft ones around it during peacetime.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2005
- Messages
- 96,955
Haven't read much here, I'm tired of the subject. But I did want to add, I work directly with fire fighters from 20 different fire departments and I can tell you they span the same continuum of beliefs as any other average cross section of people. There are science types and conspiracy believers just as there are elsewhere.
Such a claim is as meaningless as it is coming from anyone else unless the guy has other evidence which he clearly doesn't.
Such a claim is as meaningless as it is coming from anyone else unless the guy has other evidence which he clearly doesn't.
azazal
Ninja Wave: Techno Ninja
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2005
- Messages
- 696
So there is only one answer, we need Huntsman to cut a beam for us and post pictures
Sorry
I should it made it clear that it was a quote:
"Chief Pichiotto stated the collapsing sound started at the 6th floor"
I bleive it was the National Geografic Channel.
Yes, there is a difference between The Disinformation goons trying to exploit Ground Zero and the real search for truth behind 9-11.
1st. No mention of 9-11 on OBL poster (FBI) Spokesman for the FBI stated theres "no hard evidence" I wonder why ?
2. Multible Military drills on the same day as the attacks (A) Vigilant Gardian (B) Vigilant Warrior (C) Northern Vigilance And so on and so on.
3. The fact that a the public was well notified of the Presidents schedual for 9-11 at Booker Elementary. Why didn't the terrorist know about this?
4. The fact that ABCs John Cochran asked the president that morning as he left the Hotel "If he knew what was happening in NY ? With the President stating "He did and would have something to say about it later"
5. The state of Florida was the only state under State of Emergency since September 7th. Jeb Bush the Presidents Brother.
6. John O'neilwas prevented (Obstruction of Justice) by Ambassador to Yeman Barbara Bodine after the U.S.S. Cole hit.
7. NYC/OEM FEderal state of NY/NJ Tri-pod Bio/Chem 9-11
8. How did Mayor Guliani know the towers were coming down when the firemen didn't?
9. Question for the pilots: What is a power Dive at 10.000 per munite?
10. Why didn't the secret service place the president in protective custody when it was obvious the country was inder attack?
11. When did the VP get to the Emergency Operations Center?
12. Why did they give permision for the Bin Laden family and friends to fly out of the country when ATC-0 was in effect for the CONUS?
13. If we were looking at it as another country we'd say 9-11 was a coup de tat over though of the United States of America.
14. You give credility to known Nazi Cointel agents looking to dirsrupt and disrespect the families of 9-11, why?
I guess no one saw or read Korey Rowes statement about purposely posting disinfo on LC? Or statging that he was a military informant aka snitch? How observant of you.
Message to Andrew
Thank you for the good back. You hit it right on the head. Respect the Dead and stop desicrating Holy Ground.
Have a nice day
Sentinel
I should it made it clear that it was a quote:
"Chief Pichiotto stated the collapsing sound started at the 6th floor"
I bleive it was the National Geografic Channel.
Yes, there is a difference between The Disinformation goons trying to exploit Ground Zero and the real search for truth behind 9-11.
1st. No mention of 9-11 on OBL poster (FBI) Spokesman for the FBI stated theres "no hard evidence" I wonder why ?
2. Multible Military drills on the same day as the attacks (A) Vigilant Gardian (B) Vigilant Warrior (C) Northern Vigilance And so on and so on.
3. The fact that a the public was well notified of the Presidents schedual for 9-11 at Booker Elementary. Why didn't the terrorist know about this?
4. The fact that ABCs John Cochran asked the president that morning as he left the Hotel "If he knew what was happening in NY ? With the President stating "He did and would have something to say about it later"
5. The state of Florida was the only state under State of Emergency since September 7th. Jeb Bush the Presidents Brother.
6. John O'neilwas prevented (Obstruction of Justice) by Ambassador to Yeman Barbara Bodine after the U.S.S. Cole hit.
7. NYC/OEM FEderal state of NY/NJ Tri-pod Bio/Chem 9-11
8. How did Mayor Guliani know the towers were coming down when the firemen didn't?
9. Question for the pilots: What is a power Dive at 10.000 per munite?
10. Why didn't the secret service place the president in protective custody when it was obvious the country was inder attack?
11. When did the VP get to the Emergency Operations Center?
12. Why did they give permision for the Bin Laden family and friends to fly out of the country when ATC-0 was in effect for the CONUS?
13. If we were looking at it as another country we'd say 9-11 was a coup de tat over though of the United States of America.
14. You give credility to known Nazi Cointel agents looking to dirsrupt and disrespect the families of 9-11, why?
I guess no one saw or read Korey Rowes statement about purposely posting disinfo on LC? Or statging that he was a military informant aka snitch? How observant of you.
Message to Andrew
Thank you for the good back. You hit it right on the head. Respect the Dead and stop desicrating Holy Ground.
Have a nice day
Sentinel
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
So there is only one answer, we need Huntsman to cut a beam for us and post pictures
LOL
I'd love to, really. BUt I don't know how to make shaped charges (not of this type, anyway), nor do I have a location suitably out of the way that I could run this test without having to explain to some nice men in unifroms just what I'm doing with several pounds of home-made explosive.
I had, earlier, found some pics of line charges cutting through sheet steel.
The pics are at this site lower down the page. This is a framed linear charge for cutting holes.
There's also some good pics on this thread at the science madness site.
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
You know, there's a chance I could try and find out when the next unit in our command is running a demolition range, and see if I can go with them. I coudl try to get them to let me rig something up. Even then, though, it wouldn't be an actual cutting charge, so probably not worth a lot.
I'll see if there's any certified demolition companies around here that I could email, see if they have a pic available.
I'll see if there's any certified demolition companies around here that I could email, see if they have a pic available.
another question
Why didn't the Pentagon get evact when everyone there seemed to know they were next? Pentagon Protection Service Know about the august 6th PDB?
This question is in refference to a military news write up shortly after.
Have nice day
Sentinel
Why didn't the Pentagon get evact when everyone there seemed to know they were next? Pentagon Protection Service Know about the august 6th PDB?
This question is in refference to a military news write up shortly after.
Have nice day
Sentinel
Gravy
I'll make a deal with you. I sent you my number. You call me and I'll let you hear it for yourself,Sir.
I don't stand by anything unless I have it on video and Chief Piciotto clearly states that the sound began at around the 6th floor.
Then you can apologize to me in the open forum about "Getting a Grip"
And for the bonus I'll let you hear "duff and Nasty" state they were still looking for flight 11 over Kennedy after 175 already impacted Locating the "Bogey Dope"
Have a nice day
Sentinel
I'll make a deal with you. I sent you my number. You call me and I'll let you hear it for yourself,Sir.
I don't stand by anything unless I have it on video and Chief Piciotto clearly states that the sound began at around the 6th floor.
Then you can apologize to me in the open forum about "Getting a Grip"
And for the bonus I'll let you hear "duff and Nasty" state they were still looking for flight 11 over Kennedy after 175 already impacted Locating the "Bogey Dope"
Have a nice day
Sentinel
nathanmcginty
New Blood
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2006
- Messages
- 23
Someone knew he was at the Florida resort, right? Wasn't there a newsreport about a van full of "reporters" being turned away who were trying to see the POTUS that morning?
Yeah - the paper was the "Longboat Observer" in Florida (I take it). Apparently they still stand by that story.
I can't post links yet. Sad.
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2006
- Messages
- 25,327
You can't make broad sweeping claims like that. The response to load forces depends on the grade of the steel used. Mild steel certainly bends before it breaks. Not true of hard-temper high-carbon steel. Steel can be soft and flexible, or hard and brittle, depending on its temper and carbon content.
-Andrew
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2006
- Messages
- 25,327
I believe you won't get anyone to say there is no hard evidence against OBL. He hasn't got a mention of 9/11 on his wanted poster because he hasn't been indicted for the crime. He hasn't been indicted because the US Government do not have a chain of custody for the evidence against him (video tapes etc.) thus they cannot be admitted as evidence.
Vigilant Guardian was a CPX. The transition from VG to real-world took about 4 seconds. Vigilant Warrior (I and II) were operations in the Gulf in, IIRC, 1994 and 1995. Saddam Hussein deployed forces to the Kuwait border, so Operation Vigilant Warrior was executed to make him stand down.
The only reference to Vigilant Warrior as an exercise is in Richard Clarke's book "Against All Enemies". He claims to have overheard Richard Myers (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) mention it during a phonecall.
It was postulated that this was a "live fly" aspect of Vigilant Guardian, but this is false. Warrior denotes NORAD live fly exercises, however the exercise term "Vigilant" is reserved for CJCS-approved CinC-NORAD Sponsored CPXs. The appropriate term for CJCS-approved CinC NORAD field exercises (live fly) is "Amalgam". Amalgam Warrior is held every second year, and was held in 2000 and 2002, not 2001.
Northern Vigilance was not an exercise but a real world operation. It was in response to a major Russian exercise, so any claim that Northern Vigilance was established on purpose would indicate Russia was also involved in the 9/11 plot.
Of course none of this affected the 14 aircraft on alert bases in the CONUS region. NEADS - who would have to deal with the hijackings - only had 4 aircraft.
And yet, all of this is irrelevant anyway. The military didn't have TIME to do anything. They had 9 minutes to intercept AA11, 2 minutes to intercept AA77, 0 minutes to intercept UA175, and minus 4 minutes to intercept UA93.
For additional information I reocmmend you read my NORAD report (kindly hosted by MarkyX) which addresses the possibility of a NORAD "stand down".
Someone has already pointed out that an incident occured which was markedly similar to the Al assassination of the leader of the Afghan resistance movement only shortly before 9/11. It seems at least possible that this was an attempted assassination of the President.
That was at 09:16 EDT as Bush was leaving the classroom at Booker Elementary School.
Nope.
Executive Order 2001-261 on 7 September 2001 declared that the Florida National Guard would assist other authorities in civil emergencies.
It was Executive Order 2001-262 on 11 September 2001 that declared a state of emergency - in RESPONSE to the 9/11 attacks.
9-12, actually. And?
Not true. Read Fatal Confusion for an account of how early people knew a collapse was imminent.
Sentinel you yourself have often been critical of the poor communication abilities of the FDNY and the NYPD. That's why the firemen didn't get out. That's why they died. Because they didn't hear the calls from their chiefs to evacuate, and because no one in FDNY was getting information from the NYPD aviation units.
I hope you succeed in your quest to rectify this problem, to avoid a similar tragedy.
I assume you're referring to UA175's 10,000 feet per minute descent towards New York? 10,000fpm is certainly a very uncomfortable descent for passengers, but not especially so for the aircraft. Bear in mind the limitations of turning and climb/descent for airliners are not for the safety of the aircraft - they are for the comfort of the passengers. Obviously the hijackers on 9/11 weren't overly concerned with passenger comfort.
This is one question I too would like to know. IMHO after the second aircraft hit Bush should have been directed to Air Force One. I think there's lots of likely and plausible explanations for why he wasn't, but I would like to heard, officially, what the reasons were.
I understand it was about the time The Pentagon was hit. The 9/11 Commission Report has a timeline for the VP's movements.
Bin Laden has a large family. They are not all terrorists. However those that left the US were all under diplomatic passports, which means they have immunity. The US government CANNOT detain them. As it is I believe the FBI interviewed them all before they left.
Who were the President and VP replaced with on 9/11? I believe, by definition, the top leaders of a government cannot carry out a coup d'etat.
I apologise aswell if I made any assessments of your position that are inaccurate. We do not agree on all aspects, it appears, but on the above issue we are in 100% agreement. Regardless of who is responsible for 9/11, the victims are still victims. Either way, they deserve respect.
-Andrew
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This one is easy.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...8.865575,-77.046304&spn=0.023958,0.036736&t=k
It would of been a little too easy to accidentally shoot down a plane headed for Reagan National Airport if the Pentagon had AA capabilities.
Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2006
- Messages
- 17,078
First, notice the huge difference in the two statements.
Second, how much do you want to bet that he was saying he heard the collapsing sound when he was at the 6th floor? Because that's where he was. When he heard the collapsing sound. And everyone there knew where it was coming from. Because they were knocked off their feet by the air rushing down the stairwell.
It's important to get these things right, Sentinel.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 38,527
Christopher7 said:
I guess he's never seen a shear load on a piece of steel cut it like butter. Guess he's never had to work with his hands, and over torque a bolt's head with a torque wrench, and shear the head right off.
I guess he has never used bolt cutters.
DR
azazal
Ninja Wave: Techno Ninja
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2005
- Messages
- 696
Oh sure, here I go and give you a perfectly good reason to blow stuff up and you counter it with logic and the law.
Actually if any one you served with had pic available, or the next time you're out on the practice range, take a camera.