Lebanon timeline

[HeavyAaron]

It was.

The UN even drew blue painted lines right through the kitchens and living-rooms of homes that straddled the border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Line_(Lebanon)

In any case, the islamic jihadists care nothing about Israel's "borders" -- it is all Islamic Sacred Trust (WAQF) to Hezbollah, and HAMAS --- as we are well aware, no lines on the ground will stop them from pursuing their violent aims.

Your Wikipedia link no workie.

Aaron

 

[CapelDodger]

It was.

The UN even drew blue painted lines right through the kitchens and living-rooms of homes that straddled the border.

Wow. An actual blue line, drawn by the UN, no less, or at least UN personnel. Presumably according to a much bigger map and finer-tipped pen. Right through people's houses. Much the same happened when Ireland was partitioned, and it didn't turn out well.

So anyway, Israel defines itself according to the blue line? A bit artifical, isn't it? As in, Israel is an artificial nation-state?

The border between Kuwait and Iraq was (so it's said) deliniated by Gertrude Bell, riding a mule through the desert and dropping pebbles from a bag. Behind her were guys with mules carrying wooden stakes which were pushed into the sand where the pebbles fell. And not far behind them were guys with mules pulling up the stakes to sell as firewood in Basra. That border didn't turn out terribly well either, after they found oil underneath it.

When borders are drawn through farmyards they're not even hidden, like the oil was. It's a recipe for tears.

 

[CapelDodger]

In any case, the islamic jihadists care nothing about Israel's "borders" -- it is all Islamic Sacred Trust (WAQF) to Hezbollah, and HAMAS --- as we are well aware, no lines on the ground will stop them from pursuing their violent aims.

From a zionist, that last is rich.

Waqf means something like a trust in the Western system. It's usually religious, similar to the abbeys of pre-Reformation Britain. It refers to specific property. It's one of a variety of traditional property-rights in the Middle East, including outright ownership. It doesn't refer to some regional "Islamic Sacred Trust", but it can refer to specific property that has been confiscated by the Jewish State. Waqf has been treated by Israel with as much contempt as any other local form of land-ownership.

Hizbullah has prevented Israel from imposing its own definition of property-rights on Southern Lebanon (south of the Litani, the "natural border"). Twice - first when they drove them out, second when they stopped them returning. A third bout is not recommended - but I can't help thinking Israel will feel driven to it.

 

[webfusion]

Anyway, this thread is about the timeline, not the borderline.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Hey demon, care to answer this...
??

Nope, he won't. And he also doesn't care to answer how come he posted his rationalization/apology for the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit with an event that took place after the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit.

A lesson in Demon for JREFers.

There are conflicting reports, even within sources, as to the timeline and the location of the abduction.

No there is not. There are no conflicting reports as to the timeline and the location of the abduction, that is pure B.S. and I shall document that it is pure B.S.:

• BBC - Wednesday, 12 July 2006, 11:53 GMT 12:53 UK - "Lebanese guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid"
• CNN - Wednesday, July 12, 2006; Posted: 10:27 p.m. EDT (02:27 GMT) - "The Israeli Cabinet authorized "severe and harsh" retaliation on Lebanon after Hezbollah guerillas kidnapped two soldiers"
• Haaretz - 10:28 13/07/2006 - "Eight Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed and two others were abducted Wednesday in attacks by guerillas from the militant Hezbollah organization."
• FOX News - Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - "Syria and Iran are to blame for the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah terrorists"
• Aljazeera - Wednesday 12 July 2006, 17:27 Makka Time, 14:27 GMT - "Hezbollah has captured two Israeli soldiers during cross-border clashes"
• Times Online - July 12, 2006 - "Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers and killed seven others on the border with southern Lebanon today"
• etc...etc...etc...

The only person who claims "there are conflicting reports, even within sources, as to the timeline" is you Capel. You are alone with this "claim".

Additionally Israel knows exactly where the soldiers were kidnapped - between Shtula and Zerit beside the border fence - as the wreckage of the armored IDF Hummer jeeps was not kidnapped by Hezbollah.... and the bodies of the soldiers killed - Sergeant-Major Class Eyal Benin, 22, Sergeant-Major Shani Turgeman , 24, and Staff-Sergeant Wassim Nazal, 27 - were not taken by Hezbollah.

So the IDF found not only the Hummer jeeps that were attacked by Hezbollah RPGs, they also recovered the dead bodies of the soldiers killed during the kidnapping. So the location of the attack is NOT in question whatsoever in any way.

Hizbullah has prevented Israel from imposing its own definition of property-rights on Southern Lebanon (south of the Litani, the "natural border").

It's really time to stop peddling that old myth Capel. It's tired, old, stale and frankly exposes that you are a conspiracy theorist.

Israel is nearly 60 years old and the northern border of Israel has never been the Litani river. Nor will it ever be the Litani river. And just because a few zionists from the late 19th century desired the northern border of Israel to be the Litani river does not mean the northern border of Israel "will be" the Litani River.

The fact remains that after 60 years the northern border of Israel has never been the Litani river...so I think after 60 years you can lay that old 19th century "Litani river border" propoganda to rest.

{edited to add}

It's very troubling that folks who post at JREF would bet their credibility on a few easily-disproven lies.

 

[webfusion]

capeldodger fabricates:

Waqf has been treated by Israel with as much contempt as any other local form of land-ownership.

Lie.

Three examples of the honor and sanctity afforded Islamic Waqf property ---
See: Hassan Beq Mosque,Tel Aviv/Jaffa
See: Haram Al-Sharif, Jerusalem.
See: Tomb of Patriarchs, Hebron

It doesn't refer to some regional "Islamic Sacred Trust"

According to HAMAS and Hezbollah, it does.
They clearly state that the 'land of palestine' (whose borders they cannot themselves define) is all theirs.

See: Hamas Covenant. Section 11
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

 

[zenith-nadir]

Lie.

Three examples of the honor and sanctity afforded Islamic Waqf property ---
See: Hassan Beq Mosque,Tel Aviv/Jaffa
See: Haram Al-Sharif, Jerusalem.
See: Tomb of Patriarchs, Hebron

Web, you are debating with a guy who still believes 80-year-old anti-zionist propoganda, (the Litani border), and claimed that there are conflicting reports as to the timeline and the location of Hezbollah's abduction....both of which are not true.

So in all honesty what the hell does he really know, (or care), about Al-Haram al-Sharif or the Hasan Beq Mosque?

 

[CapelDodger]

capeldodger fabricates:

Lie.

Three examples of the honor and sanctity afforded Islamic Waqf property ---
See: Hassan Beq Mosque,Tel Aviv/Jaffa
See: Haram Al-Sharif, Jerusalem.
See: Tomb of Patriarchs, Hebron

Three high-profile examples, to set against all the other examples that were confiscated and transferred to the JNF, along with so much other Arab land.

According to HAMAS and Hezbollah, it does.
They clearly state that the 'land of palestine' (whose borders they cannot themselves define) is all theirs.

See: Hamas Covenant. Section 11
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Not a usage I was aware of, so I stand corrected.

 

[CapelDodger]

Web, you are debating with a guy who still believes 80-year-old anti-zionist propoganda, (the Litani border), and claimed that there are conflicting reports as to the timeline and the location of Hezbollah's abduction....both of which are not true.

So in all honesty what the hell does he really know, (or care), about Al-Haram al-Sharif or the Hasan Beq Mosque?

The Zionist Organisaton map presented at the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919 included Southern Lebanon up to the Litani River. Weizmann et al were loudly upset when that area was assigned to the French Mandate. Ben Gurion demanded the Litani as the northern border in 1947 - he wanted "natural" borders, the Litani, the Jordan and the Suez Canal. There's no sign he ever changed his mind; in 1955 he proposed a Maronite coup armed and paid for by Israel which would see Southern Lebanon annexed to Israel. Revisionists have never given up the maximalist claim and Likud is a direct descendent of Revisionism, not to mention Revisionist sentiment in the IDF (which absorbed most of the Irgun back in the day). Then there's the 18 years of occupation, 1982-2000, to explain.

The Shias of Southern Lebanon are well aware of this, and would be foolhardy to ignore the threat of greedy eyes just over the border.

 

[demon]

ZN:
"There are no conflicting reports as to the timeline and the location of the abduction, that is pure B.S. and I shall document that it is pure B.S."

Oh really? If discussing the Middle East has taught you anything, it should have taught you that there are ALWAYS conflicting reports.

The oft repeated claim that the Israeli soldiers where captured in Israel is not beyond question. Let`s not forget that Israel has constantly been violating Lebanese territory so we know the IDF could have been over the boarder (well documented by the UN).
There are shades of "Saddam kicked the weapons inspectors out" here...ie. say something enough times and it becomes the accepted narrative. Even though the media at the time reported accurately that the weapons inspectors had not been thrown out at all but had been withdrawn prior to Clinton bombing Baghdad in Operation Desert Fox.

Here are quotes from articles I collected reporting that the Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah were INSIDE Lebanon at the time.

If anyone has seen any other reports like these, please post them.

quote:
Hezbollah captures two Israeli soldiers
New Kerala News
12 July, 2006
Quote:
Beirut: The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon.

"Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon," a statement by Hezbollah said.

"The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place," it added.

The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they "infiltrated" into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.


Nasrallah calls abduction 'only and logical right'
Jerusalem Post
By JPOST.COM STAFF
Jul. 12, 2006 17:56
Quote:
Hizbullah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said the timing of the capture of two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon on Wednesday would boost the position of Palestinians in Gaza.

Hezbollah Captures 2 Israeli Soldiers
Forbes
By Joseph Panossian,
Associated Press, Jul 12, 2006
Quote:
The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them.

Hezbollah back in the spotlight after capturing soldiers
M & C News
By Weedah Hamzah
Tyre, Southern Lebanon, Jul 12, 2006
Quote:
Lebanon's pro-Syrian Shiite movement is back in the spotlight after capturing two Israeli soldiers on Wednesday, plunging the country into a crisis that could lead to new violence in the region.

[...]

In the afternoon, the scene changed in the streets of southern Lebanon, which was the target of 32 Israeli raids that mainly targeted areas near the area where the two soldiers were captured in Aita al Chaab, close to the border with Israel.

It's war by any other name
Asia Times
By Sami Moubayed
Damascus, Jul 15, 2006
Quote:
It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.


Hezbollah arrests two Israeli soldiers
Bahrain News Agency
Beruit, Jul 12, 2006
Quote:
The Lebanese Hezbollah movement announced Wednesday the arrest of two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon.

Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were arrested as they entered the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. Israeli aircraft were active in the air over southern Lebanon, police said, with jets bombing roads leading to the market town of Nabatiyeh, 60 kilometers south of Beirut.

Passing the Buck
Newsweek
By Michael Hirsh
Updated: 4:31 p.m. ET July 12, 2006
Quote:
After the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers by Hizbullah in Lebanon on Wednesday, which the hard-line group linked to a similar kidnapping by Hamas the week before, the Mideast seemed to be closer to all-out war.

Here is a dissection of how the articles by AP's Joe Panossian evolved over time:
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2006/07/where-exactly-were-those-israeli.html

And further discussion of Joe Panossian's coverage of the soldiers capture here:
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/170679.php

Here is a Voltaire article, the second a letter regarding Israeli censorship which is now in operation (relevant, I think), the third an article from ABC Australia, in which the reporter confirms early IDF reports that the soldiers were captured in Lebanon.

Beaking News - Voltaire Network-Western press agencies willing victims of Israeli censorship

Quote:
Voici les faits : le Hezbollah exige depuis de longues ann�es la lib�ration de prisonniers d�tenus par Isra�l, tel que Samir el Kantar, emprisonn� depuis 1978, Nassim Nisr et Yahia Skaff qui est incarc�r� depuis 1982. Dans de nombreuses occasion, il a fait savoir qu�il ne manquerait pas de faire prisonnier � son tour des soldats isra�liens -si ci-ceux-ci venaient � s�introduire au Liban-, et de les utiliser comme monnaire d��change. De mani�re d�lib�r�e, Tsahal a envoy� un commando dans l�arri�re-pays libanais � A�ta al Chaab. Il a �t� attaqu� par le Hezbollah, faisant deux prisonniers. Isra�l a alors feint d��tre agress� et a attaqu� le Liban. Le Hezbollah, qui se pr�parait � faire face � une agression isra�lienne que chacun savait imminente depuis le retrait syrien, a tir� des missiles de moyenne port�e sur Isra�l.

(Here are the facts : Hezbollah has demanded for years now the release of prisoners held by Israel, such as Samir el Kantar, improsonned since 1978, Nassim Nisr and Yahia Skaff, imprisonned since 1982. On innumerable occasions it has made known that it, in turn, won't hesitate to capture Israeli soldiers- if they enter Lebanon- and to use them as bargaining counters. Quite deliberately, Tsahal sent a commando unit into Lebanese territory around Aita al Chaab. It was attacked by Hezbollah, who took two prisoners. Israel then made out that they had been attacked and attacked Lebanon. Hezbollah, which was preparing for an israeli attack which everyone new was inevitable after the Syrian withdrawal, fired some medium range missiles at Israel.)

Translated by Conlin Buchanan
http://www.iransolidarity.endofempire.org/news.php?page=601


Sunday, July 16, 2006
Censorship Policy Regarding Fighting in the North
Date: 16.7.06
Quote:
Censorship Policy Regarding Fighting in the North

1. As of now, over 1,200 rockets have been fired at Israel; it is expected that this will continue.

2. Therefore, following are the Military Censor's relevant guidelines:
a. The Military Censor will not approve reports regarding visits of Israeli Government and IDF officials in the north of Israel until the visits are over due to the clear connection between officials' visits and missile attacks on the area in question.
b. The Military Censor will not approve reports on missile hits at IDF bases and/or strategic facilities.
c. The Military Censor will not approve reports on missiles that fall in the Mediterranean Sea.
d. The Military Censor will not approve reports on time periods when
citizens are permitted to leave their shelters. Warnings of such times are utilized by the enemy for timing attacks.
e. Reporting on locations in which there are public defense and
organizational difficulties should be avoided as much as possible.

3. Real-time reporting on the exact location of rocket hits must be strictly avoided!

Sincerely,

Col. Sima Vaknin-Gil
Chief Military Censor
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=30102

Quote:
"The sources say the Israeli soldiers had been seized at around 9am local time across the border from Aita al-Shaab, some 15 kilometres from the Mediterranean coast."

The Israeli army confirmed that two Israeli soldiers had been captured on the Lebanese frontier."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1685306.htm


Quote:
On Wednesday, the two Israeli soldiers were seized at about 9am (0600 GMT), across the border from Aita al-Shaab, 15km from the Mediterranean coast.

Three Israeli soldiers died in the raid, while four more were killed when their tank ran over a landmine. The eighth soldier died while helping to recover the tank, the Israeli army said.
"Israeli officials said the air attacks aimed to exert pressure on the Lebanese government to prevent Hezbollah launching cross-border attacks.

The Israeli prime minister described Wednesday's attack as an act of war by Lebanon and promised a "severe response". The government approved miltary action against Hezbollah after an emergency cabinet meeting."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A67F0AD3-7964-41BC-98A9-CA752CA5B89F.htm

======================================================================================

Note the ABC Australia snippet and the Aljazeera one are probably the same source (almost word for word). The difference is, the Australian one follows up with a quote that removes the ambiguity (at least of the article's slant if not the truth), whereas the aljazeera one doesn't.

Of course, the AJ one goes into detail of the tanks, which compares to those reports of the destroyed tank in South Lebanon, but if it had used the whole quote that the ABC did, there would be no ambiguity.

What is interesting to me is that many news corporations have gone from explicit to non commital; others have gone from non-commital to explicit (in favour of Israel).

Maybe they should just admit they don't know?

Whether it is or isn't important to the actions Israel is taking in Lebanon, it is obvious that Israel believes it is important, and, following that, much of our media, as much through diversionary tactics of the truth (that they really do not know the circumstances of that particular event but aren't saying as much) as in how they choose now to present it say a lot about where their allegiance lays.

 

[webfusion]

IDF forces had undertaken no mission into Aita al Chaab on the morning of July 12th. The soldiers were on routine patrol along that stretch of border road which skirts Aita al Chaab, and their vehicles came under ambush fire, as the Hezbollah terrorists crossed the fence-line.
http://www.geocities.com/abdnr98/sud.jpg

and
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=25797
A team of Israeli lawyers is now suing the Lebanese government for starting the war. The case, to be filed in US civil court, will sue for compensation and damages incurred by Israeli residents and businesses as a result of the war. Attorneys Yehudah Talmon, Yoram Dantziger and Nitzah Libai claim the Lebanese government violated international law because it didn't stop Hezbollah's casus belli cross-border raid against Israel.

 

[Mycroft]

Ben Gurion demanded the Litani as the northern border in 1947 - he wanted "natural" borders, the Litani, the Jordan and the Suez Canal. There's no sign he ever changed his mind; in 1955 he proposed a Maronite coup armed and paid for by Israel which would see Southern Lebanon annexed to Israel.

David Ben Gurion's mind was changed permanently on this issue, and all other issues, on December 1, 1973. Note that is more than 30 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

Now if you insist that dead people still set the agenda for Israeli politics, then all I can say is:

 

[zenith-nadir]

The Zionist Organisaton map presented at the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919 included Southern Lebanon up to the Litani River.

I hate to break it to ya Capel but it is 2006, not 1919, and to date the northern border of Israel HAS NEVER BEEN the Litani river. If you have to go back to a map presented at conference from 87 years ago as the cornerstone of your argument then I am afraid it's really time to lay this Litani river myth to rest, really.

Weizmann et al were loudly upset when that area was assigned to the French Mandate. Ben Gurion demanded the Litani as the northern border in 1947 - he wanted "natural" borders, the Litani, the Jordan and the Suez Canal. There's no sign he ever changed his mind; in 1955 he proposed a Maronite coup armed and paid for by Israel which would see Southern Lebanon annexed to Israel.

Still this litani river myth doesn't hold up to reality. People can desire and say whatever they want but the fact remains - yet again - that to date the northern border of Israel HAS NEVER BEEN the Litani river.

Revisionists have never given up the maximalist claim

...and the names of these so-called revisionists are?

And even if you bothered to provide the citiations of these "unnamed revisionists" the fact remains - yet again - that the northern border of Israel HAS NEVER BEEN the Litani river.

....and Likud is a direct descendent of Revisionism, not to mention Revisionist sentiment in the IDF (which absorbed most of the Irgun back in the day). Then there's the 18 years of occupation, 1982-2000, to explain.

There is nothing to explain unless you are trying to rewrite history and deny that Israel was in Lebanon because the PLO was attacking Israel from southern Lebanon. Here is the documentation to remind you on that part of history, PLO IN LEBANON.

The Shias of Southern Lebanon are well aware of this, and would be foolhardy to ignore the threat of greedy eyes just over the border.

Once again you perpetuate a myth - the Litani border - which has no basis in reality for the northern border of Israel HAS NEVER BEEN the Litani river. Nor will it ever be the Litani river. To keep repeating this as an inevitability - see: "greedy eyes just over the border" - when all the evidence points to the contrary is frankly nuts.

Now if you insist that dead people still set the agenda for Israeli politics, then all I can say is:

Indeed.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Gilad Shalit

Is not the Archduke Ferdinand, and he ain't worth going to World War III over. Neither were the two soldiers captured in the North.

Does it occur to anyone that the Israeli forces were caught napping, sort of like those two US soldiers who recently got captured, and mutilated, in Iraq?

In war, or in a political struggle like the one in Gaza, your enemy doesn't wait for you to act, he acts. If you are caught unaware, he gets the drop on you.

Objectively, what happened to set off this latest fight was . . . the Israeli forces on the ground were caught with their guard down.

The rocket attacks, of course, were a "kid gloves off" move by Hezbollah that Israel could not very well ignore, as were the attacks on ships at sea.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

A team of Israeli lawyers is now suing the Lebanese government for starting the war. The case, to be filed in US civil court, will sue for compensation and damages incurred by Israeli residents and businesses as a result of the war. Attorneys Yehudah Talmon, Yoram Dantziger and Nitzah Libai claim the Lebanese government violated international law because it didn't stop Hezbollah's casus belli cross-border raid against Israel.

I would suggest that this suit does not belong in the US, but rather at the Hague. US Courts have plenty on their dockets covering American concerns.

DR

 

[zenith-nadir]

Is not the Archduke Ferdinand, and he ain't worth going to World War III over. Neither were the two soldiers captured in the North.

True. But when Gilad Shalit was taken hostage the Hamas terrorists crossed the border from the Gaza Strip into Israel via an underground tunnel. Two IDF soldiers were killed and four others wounded, including Shalit.

In the case of Hezbollah, terrorists crossed the border from Southern Lebanon into Israel. Three IDF soldiers were killed and two were taken hostage.

When known and designated terrorist organizations start crossing borders and killing and taking hostages it is time to put a stop to it...but that is just my opinion

Does it occur to anyone that the Israeli forces were caught napping, sort of like those two US soldiers who recently got captured, and mutilated, in Iraq?

Actually they were ambushed, rather than "caught napping", and five IDF soldiers died in the ensuing firefights and three taken hostage.

Objectively, what happened to set off this latest fight was . . . the Israeli forces on the ground were caught with their guard down.

I disagree. Hamas and Hezbollah are not supposed to cross into Israel and launch attacks. But they did and that is what "set off this latest fight". I'm sorry but the victims of the ambuses - the IDF & Israel - are not the perpetrators of the hostilities.

 

[demon]

ZN:
"I am curious, the article you cite clearly states that Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar were "kidnapped" by Israel on Monday June 26, 2006. Gilad Shalit was kidnapped by Hamas early on Sunday morning the 25th of June 2006.
So how in the hell can the Palestinians kidnap an Israeli soldier "in response to" Israel's kidnap of two Palestinian civilians - Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar - when the soldier was kidnapped the day BEFORE?
Do you even read and research what you write Demon or are you just a spam bot?"

You are misrepresenting the report I used. It does not clearly state that Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar were kidnapped by Israel on Monday June 26, 2006. That is the date the report is written, it does not state this as the date of the kidnapping.

If you had merely entered their names into Google, you would have obtained numerous links that give the date of their kidnapping as June 24th.

Just a few:
quote:
Israel captures pair in Gaza raid

Israeli soldiers have seized two Palestinian men in an overnight raid into the southern Gaza Strip...
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5112846.stm dated Saturday, 24 June 2006)

quote:
Israel raids Gaza, arrests civilians

Israeli occupation forces raided the village of Umm al-Nasser, near the Rafah refugee camp, about one kilometre from the Israeli border at 00:30 GMT on Saturday, seizing two Palestinians, Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar, sons of Hamas activist Ali Muamar, according to Palestinian sources...
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11601 dated 6/24/2006

quote:
"The conflict began on June 24, 2006, when Israeli operatives seized Osama and Mustafa Muamar in the Gaza Strip. On June 25, an allegedly retaliatory Hamas attack resulted in the deaths of two Israeli soldiers and the capture of Israeli Corporal Gilad Shalit. Israel then launched Operation Summer Rains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Gaza_conflict

Get it now See which one comes first? In your own words "Shalit was kidnapped by Hamas early on Sunday morning the 25th of June 2006", Osama and Mustafa Abu Muamar were kidnapped on the 24th June.
That of course, has been conveniently ignored.


Do I read or reasearch? Maybe I should just plagiarise next time eh?

 

[Mycroft]

Just a few:
quote:
Israel captures pair in Gaza raid

Israeli soldiers have seized two Palestinian men in an overnight raid into the southern Gaza Strip...

So I take it that you buy the Hamas line that these two were just sitting around minding their own business when big bad Israel came along and arrested them for no reason?

 

[a_unique_person]

No arguing back and forth please about the right and wrong of an action; just what the action was, please. Thanks.

Yeah, right.

 

[Azure]

So I take it that you buy the Hamas line that these two were just sitting around minding their own business when big bad Israel came along and arrested them for no reason?

I'm still waiting for Demon to admit that Hezbollah shot the first rockets....

So yes, that would be exactly HAMAS did...according to Demon.