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Loose Change - Part IV

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Yeah,but you're wrong and I'm right.

A friend of a friend of someone who knows a guy who worked in a shop where he met a guy who said that 9/11 was a fake.

That's good enough for me!

:eek:
 
apathoid said:
That must be JohnD'oh. He's the one that claims the NWO made Denver International resemble a swastika, clearly forgetting the small fact that the Neo-Nazis are on his team..
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No, not JDX, a couple known as Imani T Misfit & specimen0420.

I live in CO and have read his nutty comments about DIA - he's a first class loon.
 
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kevin said:
You expect Fox News to be able to convert knots to mph? Besides it was 38 miles still. I thought the flight data released showed it accelerated as it approached, so the striking speed would've been higher.
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The FDR showed the throttles advancing to full power a bit less than a minute before impact. At the (roughly) 5 degree "dive" or "approach" angle I calcultated in another post (with John somebody) from the plot (2000 feet descent to impact in roughly 4 nm from the end of the 360 degree turn) and in a clean configuration, I don't know if a 757 would accelerate to 430 knot or 460 knots in a minute (I'd have to ask a 757 pilot) but it would still be accelerating at impact. I don't have a fine enough resolution on the graph from the NTSB release to do a modest time distance guess. I also don't know if during the original descent from 7500 feet the pilot wasn't accelerating during the turn, or descending at constant airspeed (which is the normal way to descend and airliner when you aren't trying to use it as a missile.)

The initial speed estimates may have been based on a gear down configuration, which considerably increases drag and reduces max speed.

One could estimate pretty closely based on film footage that was time tagged in tenths of seconds, and expert displacement measuring, but I don't know if that was done, or if such film exists.

At impact, the critical dimension is groundspeed, speed relative to the ground/fixed building's frame of reference, not airspeed.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
The FDR showed the throttles advancing to full power a bit less than a minute before impact. At the (roughly) 5 degree "dive" or "approach" angle I calcultated in another post (with John somebody) from the plot (2000 feet descent to impact in roughly 4 nm from the end of the 360 degree turn) and in a clean configuration, I don't know if a 757 would accelerate to 430 knot or 460 knots in a minute (I'd have to ask a 757 pilot) but it would still be accelerating at impact. I don't have a fine enough resolution on the graph from the NTSB release to do a modest time distance guess. I also don't know if during the original descent from 7500 feet the pilot wasn't accelerating during the turn, or descending at constant airspeed (which is the normal way to descend and airliner when you aren't trying to use it as a missile.)

The initial speed estimates may have been based on a gear down configuration, which considerably increases drag and reduces max speed.

One could estimate pretty closely based on film footage that was time tagged in tenths of seconds, and expert displacement measuring, but I don't know if that was done, or if such film exists.

At impact, the critical dimension is groundspeed, speed relative to the ground/fixed building's frame of reference, not airspeed.

DR
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Good points DarkRotor. Dont forget that the airplane was full of fuel, meaning it would accel faster in a descent. I think its perfectly reasonable to expect a 757 to accelerate from 430 kts to 460 kts in a descent at around 2000 fpm, even at idle.

I've talked to pilots about VNAV(autopilot speed/alt mode) disconnects because the airplane simply couldnt slow to meet the VNAV constraint even at flight idle.
 
And no disrespect is intended to the victims of 9/11.

I lost a very good friend that day.. spoke to her nearly every day for a year and a half on the phone, though we never met in person. When the going got tough and I needed to call the home office, she was there, with a smile and a kind word to keep me going in the midst of the madness. She was just 23, had a nice husband and a baby girl, and her whole life in front of her.

CTists get numbed to that number, 2,739, but they were people, every one of them, with lives and families and friends. I know that many of the posters here were touched in the same way by this national tragedy, and with far more wrenching stories than mine. So, as has been said before but can't be reiterated too often, let's never lose sight of what happened that day, and who our REAL enemies are.
 
jhunter1163 said:
David, do you mean that the Troofers are implying that there were mother(rule8)ing snakes on those mother(rule8)ing planes on 9/11?

If so, that's a new low even for them.
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:) No, I don't believe they are implying that. It's more like they see everyone except themselves as part of the conspiracy.
 
apathoid said:
Good points DarkRotor. Dont forget that the airplane was full of fuel, meaning it would accel faster in a descent. I think its perfectly reasonable to expect a 757 to accelerate from 430 kts to 460 kts in a descent at around 2000 fpm, even at idle.
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And for the last 30 seconds he was at nearly full-throttle, according to the recently-released report.
 
rwguinn said:
a 10 pound ball and a 5 pound ball dropped from the same height will have the same speed at impact.
And a 10000 lb fuel load requires more acceleration to increase its speed than a 5000 lb fuel load.
Gravity alone won't do it.
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Ah, but what if they had wings?
 
rwguinn said:
a 10 pound ball and a 5 pound ball dropped from the same height will have the same speed at impact.
And a 10000 lb fuel load requires more acceleration to increase its speed than a 5000 lb fuel load.
Gravity alone won't do it.
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A 10000lb aircraft will have the same air resistance as a 5000lb aircraft but a larger force from gravity, therefore it will accelerate faster.
 
Gravy said:
And for the last 30 seconds he was at nearly full-throttle, according to the recently-released report.
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I saw that. I think the airplane was likely doing 345 kts at 7000', decending on down to 2000' increased its speed to 400 kts or more, at that points Hani firewalling the throttles, still in a descent, increased its speed to 460. The last 4 miles he descended the remaining 2000'. Thats a fairly steep descent, over -4000 fpm, I'm a little suprised he wasnt going quite a bit faster than 460..
I wish they'd go ahead release the FDR plots now that the trials over.
 
Cuddles said:
A 10000lb aircraft will have the same air resistance as a 5000lb aircraft but a larger force from gravity, therefore it will accelerate faster.
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I bow to your superioror knowledge.
I surrender my Engineering degree, 40 years of physics study, Professional license, and 350 years of physical science accumilation since Gallileo to your hands.
 
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