Attended A Catholic Funeral-Mass

[SPQR]

Wow, I am glad I don't buy into that anymore.

With all due respect to my friend and his family, it was his mother that died she was only 52, I wouldn't want my family sitting through something like that. It was absolutely heart-wrenching to see my friend, same age as I am, and his brother, three or for years older, struggle through the remarks they had prepared regarding their mother. Especially since my Mom and Dad are 54 and 56, respectively. Everything else I just found insulting.

The worst part for me, i.e. most insulting, was when the preist said, "And let us all pray that Violet(the mother) will be judged mercifully in the kingdom of heaven."

That's right, despite the exemplary life this woman has lead, there will be judging taking place. No matter how well she treated her fellow human beings, we all still have to pray to God that He, in his infinite wisdom, does not judge her too harshly. Disgusting.

 

[ceo_esq]

I'm very sorry this happened to your friend and his family.

With all due respect though, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Is your act of judgment that this woman led an exemplary life, and treated her fellow human beings well, really all that different from God's act of judgment (except that God - if, of course, he exists - is presumably able to judge even more objectively and on the basis of even more information)? Indeed, it's somewhat circular to find fault with the notion of divine judgment simply because you have already made your own judgment. If I objected to a client's being summoned to court solely on the basis that I personally knew very well that he hadn't done anything actionable, my objection would not carry much weight with anyone except my client. Of course, I might be justified in expecting that at the end of the trial the judge would take the same view of things as I.

 

[rachaella]

The worst part for me, i.e. most insulting, was when the preist said, "And let us all pray that Violet(the mother) will be judged mercifully in the kingdom of heaven."

At my grandfather's funeral most of what the priest said was about how we had to pray so my grandfather could leave purgatory, where he currently was. I wanted to sock the priest.

 

[Jorghnassen]

Man, what's up with crummy vicars these days? My bro didn't appreciate his godson's baptism because of the vicar's zealous sermon... The last catholic funeral service I attended had no such crap.

 

[Beady]

A mild derail, but I think it's not too impertinent:

I've been working on plans for my own funeral. My working idea is that my friends and loved ones will be attending, and they're already (I would hope) going to be bumbed out at my demise; there's no need for someone to make them feel even worse. Therefore, I intend to reach out from beyond the grave and try to lighten the mood just a tad.

Music: Processional and Recessional will be "Gary Owen" and "The Girl I Left Behind Me."

Eulogy: Actually, I'd like it if people just sat around in a group, swapping stories about me, the more off-color and embarrassing the better (what the hell, I won't be there to be annoyed). The consumption of drinks with little umbrellas is to be encouraged at this time, although beer will be permitted for the barbarians in attendance.

Fun and games: Dancing, more booze and those funny little hot dogs in a meat and tomato sauce. Also, traditional pub games, such as darts and pin-the-tail-on-the-prostitute.

Graveside: I really don't want anyone watching me go into the ground. It would be too much of a downer. Just have someone sneak me out of the party while it's in full swing.

Above all, no preachers or preaching. If they're not going to contribute to the fun, or at least join in, then I don't want them there. Besides, whether I'm heading for heaven, hell or oblivion, it will have already happened and nothing will change it.

 

[Bikewer]

Not nearly as bad as a fundie funeral we attended when I was in high school. Some flavor of Baptist, as I recall.

The departed had taken his own life, it seems, and the preacher started to go off on how the poor fellow was now suffering the flames of Hell....
While the surviving family members all wept and moaned.

Really comforting.

 

[headscratcher4]

Went to my wife's first cousin's ordination last year in CT. Wow...all I can say is Men in Dresses. Kinda was creeped out by the nuns kneeling on the ground to kiss the hands of the newly ordained priests...well, at least it wasn't little boys.

 

[jimmygun]

I had a bit of a scare a while ago and it got me thinking about what kind of send off I would want. I talked it over with the wife (who is Roman Catholic) and convinced her that my funeral should be planned with only my wishes carried out.

Having sat through many religious funerals, I am always dismayed that the priest or minister takes advantage of the departed loved one to beat the bible, at some times ignoring the dead person and his or her life almost entirely.

With that in mind, I wish to have a visitation with open casket (if it is appropriate). At the gathering I would like a small sign at the entrance asking that all religious demonstrations be left at the door. I have my wife's assurance that she will explain my requests.

I have been an atheist as far back as I can remember, though I have just started to take it seriously in the last 10 or 15 years. I have led my life since then, trying to improve myself in every way, according to the precept that I want to leave a legacy of honour, honesty and caring. I wish my life to be an example of integrety, built on a moral philosophy. I wish to convey that everything I did in life was through my own efforts, not the fear of some sky-daddy and his murderous vengence.

Of course I won't be able to check up on how it goes.

 

[Smart_Cookie]

Both of my parents came from large families, so I have (had) lots of aunts and uncles - many of whom have already passed away.

And most members of both families were not terribly religious. Yet, they were largely Catholic - if in name only. You might know the type - went to church maybe twice a year, on Easter and Christmas.

Some of the others had alternative types of funerals. On my dad's side, the Salvation Army was popular, because of their treatment of those who were down and out.

Anyway, I've sat through too many funerals where the officiant didn't even really know the deceased. It becomes rather ridiculous. It felt like: "We are here today to remember the life of [insert name here]."

My mother didn't even want a funeral. She wanted no service, no gathering. Just my sister and I. She was cremated and her ashes were placed in the urn with my father's ashes.

 

[Prospero]

I don't go to funerals run by a religious figure. I hate being surrounded by people who don't feel their intelligence is being insulted.

I've always been rather fond of Orson Scott Card's Speakings.

 

[Beady]

I had a bit of a scare a while ago and it got me thinking about what kind of send off I would want.

I haven't had a scare, it's just that I've done the math and have taken note of the things that are breaking down. That's why I wrote what I did up above, and why everything I wrote there was dead serious, even though it may sound a bit flip. I want people to remember me with happiness, not sadness; I don't mind if they miss me, but I don't want them mourning my passing, or fearing for my welfare in whatever they conceive of as the afterlife.

BTW, I've located and specified in my will where I want to be buried. You might want to do the same and, if the arrangements are important enough to you, you could make certain parts of people's inheritances dependent on your wishes being carried out.

One more thing: I've been asked why I'm being morbid. As I said, I've taken note of things and have done the math. My death is no longer going to happen "someday." Assuming my father's life span (he was the fifth of seven siblings to go, and I'm beginning to show his respiratory problems), I won't see my second grandchild's high school graduation. I need time to get used to the idea, and I resent it when people dismiss it as being just plain morbid.

 

[merentha]

Not nearly as bad as a fundie funeral we attended when I was in high school. Some flavor of Baptist, as I recall.

The departed had taken his own life, it seems, and the preacher started to go off on how the poor fellow was now suffering the flames of Hell....
While the surviving family members all wept and moaned.

Really comforting.

I had a similar experience at the funeral of my best friend's dad. The old man died of heart problems (he was over 80). He never converted to Christianity, though his wife was one. Well, the wife still gave him a Christian service. During the service, there were two preachers. The first was an old friend of the family's and thus lamented his failure to bring the old man to God. The second, a younger chap, gave a fiery sermon about how those who did not accept Christ in life were doomed to hell in death in spite of any good deeds they may have performed while living. I felt it was the most insensitive thing to say to a grieving widow. However, the family was too distraught by their grief to pay attention to what he was ranting about. If I were the widow, I would have slapped his self-righteous cheek.

 

[Aardvark]

I have been saddened by these reports of insensitive religious persons sticking to a hard line.

I have attended 2 terrific funerals of close friends, one a 70 year old Anglican and the other a 49 year old Atheist. Th older man was an educator who had seen service in the navy during armed conflicts and the younger man, a science graduate and thinker.

In both cases the eulogies were a celebration of their lives and achievements read by close relatives and friends with an adjurnment afterwards to a local hostelry for liquid memmories and comfort food. In addition the older person had his local Anglican Vicar also give a sermon which was done to the instruction of the deceased and this was also a pertinent and specific reminder of the man and what he had achieved in his life. In short, two great memmories of two ordinary yet amazing men.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The appeal of Catholic funerals is that the rites are soothing and familiar. It helps to have a well-oiled funeral run smoothly down the same tracks it has for generations, because it's something of a comfort to be reminded in your grief that while things change and people go, some things don't change. The last thing I'd want while mourning someone is to have to deal with the unexpected or jarring. The Catholic Church is good at funerals, because they've had long practice. And since the religion tends to run in families, most people attending them have been through the same exact thing many times before. I've never been to one that the priest tried a fire-and-brimstone type of sermon. Generally it's just kindly but vague waffle about Jesus and the covenant and what a good woman the deceased was and how God will have mercy on her and everyone else. I don't think most people listen to the priest's remarks, anyway; he's there to make with the rites, the real interest is for the eulogy/ies by the friends and relations.

Then afterwards you all go to somebody's house and eat stuff, and talk to all the relatives and friends you haven't seen in decades, and everyone agrees that it was a good turnout, and the departed would have enjoyed being there to see everyone. I think it's a pretty good system--an organized, orderly proceeding, that takes up a good chunk of time, is familiar through long use, and brings you in with a lot of other people so you're not grieving alone somewhere with nothing to do.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I'm very sorry this happened to your friend and his family.

With all due respect though, I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Is your act of judgment that this woman led an exemplary life, and treated her fellow human beings well, really all that different from God's act of judgment (except that God - if, of course, he exists - is presumably able to judge even more objectively and on the basis of even more information)? Indeed, it's somewhat circular to find fault with the notion of divine judgment simply because you have already made your own judgment. If I objected to a client's being summoned to court solely on the basis that I personally knew very well that he hadn't done anything actionable, my objection would not carry much weight with anyone except my client. Of course, I might be justified in expecting that at the end of the trial the judge would take the same view of things as I.

No, it is you who are looking at this the wrong way. No one, especially not a god who does not have the gall to exist, has the rght to condem people to an eternity of unending torment for failing to meet an obscure and frequently self-contradictory rubric.

 

[ceo_esq]

No, it is you who are looking at this the wrong way. No one, especially not a god who does not have the gall to exist, has the rght to condem people to an eternity of unending torment for failing to meet an obscure and frequently self-contradictory rubric.

In what way does that outburst address any of my points?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

In what way does that outburst address any of my points?

It is perfectly reasonable to say that Imaginary Sky Captain is unfair and unjust, as Imaginary Sky Captain condems people to unending torment for finite crimes commited on earth, measured against a set of standards which are vauge and often self-contradictory. Saying that a good and decent women should find "merciful judgement" by this demented magical child is grotesque. Basing that on one's own judgement is perfectly valid because no one has anyone else's judgement to go by.

 

[a_unique_person]

Not nearly as bad as a fundie funeral we attended when I was in high school. Some flavor of Baptist, as I recall.

The departed had taken his own life, it seems, and the preacher started to go off on how the poor fellow was now suffering the flames of Hell....
While the surviving family members all wept and moaned.

Really comforting.

Did he relish that phrase, "flames of hell" as it rolled of his tongue. I imagine he would have.

 

[Kopji]

These kind of Christian sectarian differences make me a little curious sometimes. How do Catholics interpret John 5:24?
The local Baptists teach that by accepting Christ a person is already saved, bypassing judgment.

John 5:24 (King James Version)
Public Domain

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 5:24&version=9;

 

[SezMe]

ceo, the problem is the philosophical notion that one could be judged and found wanting in this oh so short life and pay the price for eternity. It has nothing to do with whether SPQR has a good or bad opinion of her.