Demand Koran Replace U.S. Constitution

[CFLarsen]

The crucifiction and resurrection of Jesus gave the perfect pretext to revise and update the sacred text, particularly all those annoying Deutoronomic rules and regs. Christians are perfectly well versed in how their updated text supercedes the original, and says that certain rituals and laws are washed away with the blood of Jesus. Latest is greatest.

There you go.

 

[HarryKeogh]

I know of no modern official Christian cultural antipathy or prohibition against pork,other animals not deemed kosher or halal including shrimp, lobster, catfish, rabbits.

So Steve was right.

OK, so what was the point of contention?

 

[Rob Lister]

Religion is a subset of culture. I don't see why culture in general can be enforced through laws, but religion can't.

While religion may be a subset of Culture, Religion and Culture differ.

I have little problem with pork being banned in primarally muslim nations...not because of the religion but because of the culture.
Nor of Beef in Hindu nations...not because of the religion but because of the culture.

I also have little problem with dog being banned here. Not because of the religion, but because of the culture.

Little does not equal none. Dog is sold at many specialty shops on the black market. Some Asian cultures think it a delicacy. I've tried it. Delicacy it certatinly is...one to avoid, IMO.

But, Let's continue this, if you like, in private PM's or another thread (not that I hold strong opinions either way). I just don't want to disrupt the latest Clause Larson diversion. We're free on all other threads for at least a week while he defends his position that Christians can't eat pork.

 

[Jocko]

The crucifiction and resurrection of Jesus gave the perfect pretext to revise and update the sacred text, particularly all those annoying Deutoronomic rules and regs. Christians are perfectly well versed in how their updated text supercedes the original, and says that certain rituals and laws are washed away with the blood of Jesus. Latest is greatest.

So you're saying Jesus died for our diets? Boy, that takes a fair bit of majesty out of the mystery of faith. Sheesh.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Whoa. Why do you ignore Deutoronomy? People who believed in God then were not Christians?

Yes, they were not christians. When Deuterotomy was written there were no Christians. It is a book of the OT.

 

[BPSCG]

Yes, they were not christians. When Deuterotomy was written there were no Christians. It is a book of the OT.

Evidence?

 

[CFLarsen]

Yes, they were not christians. When Deuterotomy was written there were no Christians. It is a book of the OT.

What do you base this on??

When, exactly, did people become Christians?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Could be, or would be? Would you use pork, and in what manner? You seem most reluctant to give a straight answer.

I answered the question. Gave examples from history. I said the technique needed to be updated. I suggest that bullets, misisles and schrapnel as someone suggested in hand granades be greased with pork fat and to let this fact, through back channels, be known to hezbollah so they can decide if they want to continue the fight or not. Although a blogger quoted a merc operating in Africa against a muslim insurgency as saying nobody worth killing isn't worth offending when he used pork fat against them, I said I'd rather offend somebody than kill them.

I think a nice airlift drop of hams to the Christians in Lebanon would be a humanitarian gesture as well. We could drop some on the Hezbollahs in the south as well in case they are hungry also.

Are there any restrictions on what Christians can eat, even at certain times?

Not that I know of from the New Testament books. Do you know of any?

Probably eating other people is forbidden somewhere (e.g. cannibalism)??

There is Lent of course but that is a pact that you make to give up certain favorite foods/habits/vices of your choice as a sacrifice and it only runs for a short period of time ending at Easter. Like the 30 days a year somebody we know gives up smoking cannabis.

******************************
I answered your questions. Can you answer mine? Claus, would you be so kind as to reveal where anybody hereon criticized muslims and/or jews for not dealing with pork. Thank you.
******************************

 

[CFLarsen]

I answered the question. Gave examples from history. I said the technique needed to be updated. I suggest that bullets, misisles and schrapnel as someone suggested in hand granades be greased with pork fat and to let this fact, through back channels, be known to hezbollah so they can decide if they want to continue the fight or not. Although a blogger quoted a merc operating in Africa against a muslim insurgency as saying nobody worth killing isn't worth offending when he used pork fat against them, I said I'd rather offend somebody than kill them.

I think a nice airlift drop of hams to the Christians in Lebanon would be a humanitarian gesture as well. We could drop some on the Hezbollocks in the south as well in case they are hungry also.

And what about those Muslims who are not Hezbollah, but who will get in touch with the pork?

Not that I know of from the New Testament books. Do you know of any?

Why do you focus only on the NT books? The 10 commandments doesn't apply anymore?

Probably eating other people is forbidden somewhere (e.g. cannibalism)??
There is Lent of course but that is a pact that you make to give up certain favorite foods/habits/vices of your choice as a sacrifice and it only runs for a short period of time ending at Easter. Like the 30 days a year somebody we know gives up smoking cannabis.

Then, there are religious restrictions on what Christians can eat.

I answered your questions. Can you answer mine? Claus, would you be so kind as to reveal where anybody hereon criticized muslims and/or jews for not dealing with pork. Thank you.

You did, by using that as a weapon against some Muslims. Only, you need to explain what happens when that pork hits those non-Hezbollah Muslims.

And, of course: When did Christians become Christians?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Sorry your interpretation of my suggestion is not criticism. Check the definition of criticism. If you were to say it is a vulnerability and I have
suggested it be exploited then you would be correct.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Someone with better knowledge of the NT would have to determine if there is an admonition against cannabalism. I frankly don't know but would surmise there is one, even if it is strictly cultural.

Lent does not impose restrictions on specific types of food such as pork. It calls for a private pact between the penitent and God that they would not eat their favorite food or engage in their favorite vices (e.g. smoking cannabis) for a predetermined length of time. At the end of that time they are free to eat whatever they want and to reopen their habits. If one gave up smoking cigarettes or dope for lent, hopefully this might have a longer lasting effect but that is not the intent of the exercise.

The ten commandments does not deal with dietary restrictions so it is moot in the context of this argument.

 

[CFLarsen]

Sorry your interpretation of my suggestion is not criticism. Check the definition of criticism. If you were to say it is a vulnerability and I have
suggested it be exploited then you would be correct.

What about those Muslims who are not Hezbollah, but who will get in touch with the pork?

Why do you focus only on the NT books? The 10 commandments doesn't apply anymore?

When did Christians become Christians?

I answered your question. Answer mine.

 

[CFLarsen]

Someone with better knowledge of the NT would have to determine if there is an admonition against cannabalism. I frankly don't know but would surmise there is one, even if it is strictly cultural.

Lent does not impose restrictions on specific types of food such as pork. It calls for a private pact between the penitent and God that they would not eat their favorite food or engage in their favorite vices (e.g. smoking cannabis) for a predetermined length of time. At the end of that time they are free to eat whatever they want and to reopen their habits. If one gave up smoking cigarettes or dope for lent, hopefully this might have a longer lasting effect but that is not the intent of the exercise.

You need to educate yourself on what Lent means.

Now, answer the questions.

 

[HarryKeogh]

Steve, might I suggest you wait until he answers your question or withdraws the comment that you criticized Islam before you answer his questions because that answer he gave in post #129 was laughable.

 

[whitefork]

What a perfectly wonderful thread.

Remember that line about Michael Jackson and George Hamilton crossing the color line about the same time from opposite sides?
I think we're seeing this with Claus and Steve.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Thanks for this look at Lent Claus. The following statements in quotation are from, where else, the most revered on-line encyclopedia Wikipedia at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent#Fasting_and_abstinence

as kindly provided by Claus.

On days of fasting, one eats only one full meal, but may eat two smaller meals as necessary to keep up strength.

Nothing about pork here.

On days of abstinence, the Catholic must not eat meat or poultry. According to Canon law, all Fridays of the year, Ash Wednesday and several other days are days of abstinence, though in most countries, the strict requirement of abstinence have been limited by the bishops (in accordance with Canon 1253) to the Fridays of Lent and Ash Wednesday. On other abstinence days, the faithful are invited to perform some other act of penance…

As I said other acts of penitence besides dietary ones are allowed for Lent. Muslims and Jews cannot eat pork and a variety of other foods 24 X 7 X 365 days a year for their entire lives, cradle to grave. We must insure that we do not drop hams on Lebanon Christian sectors on Fridays.

Here’s my favorite dispensation Keogh:

If St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday, the prohibition against meat may be lifted for (or ignored by) North AmericanCatholics of Irish origin who wish to enjoy the traditional meal of corned beef and cabbage.

And that folks is the word of god…..not.

****************************************************************

Harry wrote:

Steve, might I suggest you wait until he answers your question or withdraws the comment that you criticized Islam before you answer his questions because that answer he gave in post #129 was laughable.

Yes Claus, please respond. I have answered you on multiples already.

Please provide evidence or show where hereon anybody including me has criticized muslims and jews for “not wanting to deal with pork.”



Back on Topic:


The problem between Lebanon and Israel is a serious one for both countries. If the use of a pork greased weapon could end the conflict then in all seriousness this is what is being suggested.

 

[Thanz]

Just when you think Claus can't slip any more over the edge, he surpasses all expectations...

When did Christians become Christians?

Well, it would have to be after Christ. Considering that Christ came after the Torah was written, then there were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written.

Grenard says this:

Lent does not impose restrictions on specific types of food such as pork. It calls for a private pact between the penitent and God that they would not eat their favorite food or engage in their favorite vices (e.g. smoking cannabis) for a predetermined length of time. At the end of that time they are free to eat whatever they want and to reopen their habits. If one gave up smoking cigarettes or dope for lent, hopefully this might have a longer lasting effect but that is not the intent of the exercise.

Claus provides a link to Wikipedia article and tells Grenard to educate himself. From that article:

Many modern Protestants and Anglicans consider the observation of Lent to be a choice, rather than an obligation. They may decide to give up a favorite food (e.g. chocolate) or activity (e.g. going to the movies) for Lent, or they may instead decide to take on a Lenten discipline such as devotions, volunteering for charity work, and so forth.

Seems pretty consistent with Grenard's understanding.

Claus, I have been Christian my whole life. 16 years of schooling in Catholic schools, including my undergraduate degree. There is no prohibition against eating pork for Christians. You are just being silly. At best.

 

[hgc]

So you're saying Jesus died for our diets? Boy, that takes a fair bit of majesty out of the mystery of faith. Sheesh.

Yes, for pork fried rice, for shrimp with lobster sauce ... and most especially for foreskins.

 

[Mycroft]

They are also not allowed to eat/drink milk, butter, cheese, pizza with meatballs or beef sausage, yoghurt, some kinds of smoothies, milk shakes, or ice cream at the same meal as they would eat meat (beef, lamb or chicken); their households require separate plates and utensils for dairy versus meat products and separate storage ...

The prohibition against mixing meat and dairy only applies to cow meat. You can have chicken, fish, lamb, goat or whatever with your glass of milk, just not a cow.

 

[Mycroft]

Religious dogma, on the other hand, is by definition not up for discussion...

Except it is. Every religion has discussions, endless discussions on what exactly it means to belong to that religion.

If you were active in a church or a similar religious institution, you might know this.

Churches form associations with other churches of the same denomination. If your church is Baptist, you might belong to the SBC or Southern Baptist Convention. Ditto with Anglicans, Lutherans, Episcopalians or whatever, except they (of course) join different associations.

These associations have periodicals, magazines, newsletters, e-mail lists, etcetera where the clergy of these religions read, write and discuss various issues and how their particular faith responds to them. They don’t always form a consensus, and there are often differences of opinion.

Some religions even have conventions (the SBC, for example) where member churches send delegates and they vote on the various issues that make up their faith in a process that’s actually quite similar to a major political party convention voting on its party platform.

Naturally, individuals, and individual churches, may disagree with the consensus. If the disagreement is strong enough, they may leave and form another association with other like-minded congregations.

This fantasy of yours, that the word of God is final with no room for discussion may make a good Hollywood stereotype, but since the Inquisition ended, it’s never been true.